<p>We had an interesting conversation last night at our house. My daughter’s friend texted her to get some advice about her BF “cheating” on her. </p>
<p>Apparently he was responding to a text from an ex and it was something you shouldn’t be saying to someone who is an ex. (My daughter either didn’t want to elaborate in front of us or didn’t want to humiliate her friend–bottom line, I don’t know exactly what was said.)</p>
<p>The texts from the friend came while we were playing cards, so we started talking about the concept of cheating. My daughter and I thought a BF or GF could cheat without physical contact. My husband, son, and my daughter’s BF all said they didn’t consider that cheating.</p>
<p>I am wondering if this is a male vs. female p.o.v. or if age has anything to do with it (although my husband and I had differing views). I’m going to post this in both the parent cafe and the college forums to see.</p>
<p>I tend to be “male” in this regard. True cheating would involve physical acts or discussion of physical acts, such at phone or text s.e.x. But anytime you feel compelled to hide your actions, even if it’s just flirting, then you probably know you’re doing something you shouldn’t be.</p>
<p>Cheating… well, even Jimmy Carter admitted to “lusting in his heart.” I think the impulse must be differentiated from the actual act. Is it cheating to think about an ex or talk civilly to the ex? No. Is it cheating to say “I still love you” to an ex? Maybe. Depends on the context. Is it cheating to kiss an ex? Maybe. Depends on the context. (I got a few kisses from ex-boyfriends at my wedding, for example.) Is actual sex cheating? Yes. (Unless rape is involved… so I guess we’re back to context.)</p>
<p>If you have to ask, I think you have a communications problem. I know my husband (of almost 25 years) is still in friendly contact with a few old girlfriends, and he has some female friends, too. Is it a problem? Not to my mind–they’re my friends too.</p>
<p>Keep in mind that you can’t control your emotions. I wouldn’t put a married man who falls for another woman but never touches her (until, perhaps, after a divorce) in the same category as the same man who falls for another woman, sleeps with her, and hides it. I also don’t think it’s cheating if someone who is married or in a relationship looks at porn or fantasizes about someone else. Again, though, as Youdon’tsay said, if someone feels guilty about something, they probably shouldn’t be doing it or, at least, shouldn’t be keeping it a secret.</p>
<p>My dad still talks to his ex-wife and her family even though they have no need to talk (their shared kids are all adults and have been out of the house for years). He especially talks to his ex- in-laws (and ex -in-law grandparents) on holidays and birthdays. </p>
<p>I don’t think that talking to an ex about physical acts is necessarily cheating. Phone sex? Definitely. Talking about sex in some way or another? Depends on what was said and the context.</p>
<p>An age-old problem! I never thought flirting, looking, fantasizing was cheating (although it could be rude, depending on whether one’s girlfriend was present or was likely to find out about it in a humiliating way). For me, the cheating line was crossed when I started trying to get in someone else’s knickers, something that would generally happen weeks, days, hours, or at least 30-45 minutes before the actual knickers became involved. A polite peck on the cheek, no. Passion, of course.</p>
<p>I don’t know that I ever faced the phone-sex question (much less the IM-sex question, which is probably more relevant now). My default would be this: if one’s emotions and libido are both significantly engaged and focused, one is cheating.</p>
<p>Depends on the intentions maybe? My daughter’s ex b/f was talking online with a girl who was ‘just a friend’ - when they broke up she was rapidly more than ‘just a friend’. I don’t think anything physical happened before the break up but do I think he was cheating? Kinda. Emotionally. Yes. Physically no. But still kinda. As in flirting with and lining up a new ‘potential’ before the break up. But he kinda did the same to his previous g/f when he met my daughter so … something about leopards and spots? Of course his ex g/fs are all terrible people and always wicked witches who are to blame for everything. Ok - going slightly off topic here …</p>
<p>Cheating involves physical contact of a sexual nature. Once that happens the ability to turn back the clock in the relationship has pretty much ended. Other actions can still be repaired and the relationship usually can continue.</p>
<p>swimcatsmom, I guess that’s what my daughter’s friend’s BF is saying. He said he would NEVER cheat on her and if she ever cheated on him, their relationship would be over. He regrets what he said to the ex, but doesn’t consider it cheating.</p>
<p>I’d amend Youdon’tsay’s version slightly - any time you’re doing something that would cause your significant other to feel betrayed, you’re cheating. </p>
<p>JHS: “if one’s emotions and libido are both significantly engaged and focused, one is cheating.” << In my opinion, it’s an either/or. If one’s emotions OR one’s libido is significantly focused, you’re cheating. It’s the “significantly” part that becomes a grey area. </p>
<p>In a lot of cases it’s a grey area and depends on the two (or three?) people involved. I’m reminded of Ross and Rachel in Friends: did he cheat, since they were “on a break”? lol.</p>
But maybe your S.O. is super insecure or possessive. If your daughter’s boyfriend felt betrayed if your daughter was seen talking innocently to a male classmate, it would be extreme and ridiculous. It would be a “red flag” against the boyfriend, really, and no one would think the girl was cheating on the boy even though he felt betrayed. I don’t think the definition of cheating can be wholly dependent on someone else’s feelings.</p>
That’s what my daughter’s ex said also. And she believed him. Even after they broke up. Right up until the day she didn’t. </p>
<p>If whatever was said to the ex was was something that he would have not said to a girl in front of his g/f (or would not like his g/f to say to another boy) then I think there is a problem - maybe cheating is the wrong word - but inappropriate, dishonest, unacceptable all seem like good words. So it really does depend on what was said, how it was said/meant - grey areas.</p>
<p>On a personal note & I know my daughter’s ex would have been furious if she had been doing what he was doing. Of course he is a controlling, jealous psycopath who would have a fit if she talked to another guy - but I digress.</p>
<p>For instance, I am a flirt. Dh knows this and doesn’t care. He trusts me. I would know if I crossed the line because I have a conscience. I could be married to a very jealous man (actually, I couldn’t, but you know what I mean) who would feel threatened anytime I looked twice at someone, but that’s his problem, not mine.</p>
<p>To me, it’s like the old saw about character is what happens when you think no one is looking. I don’t need some external keeping me honest. I do that myself.</p>
<p>in a boyfriend/girlfriend I think verbally flirting with other people shouldn’t be considered cheating (unless it’s over the top)…especially at a young age</p>
<p>For example, given that you don’t have a bf/gf, you mildly flirt with the girl sitting next to you in class. Just because you flirted with her once, does not mean you guys are gonna go out. </p>
<p>Having said that, I think moms and dads should be 120% faithful and try to shy away from lust, fantasies, etc… even if it is human nature…</p>
<p>^^^ So, it’s OK for you to fantasize but not your parents???</p>
<p>I wanted to add that in a long-term relationship some of this does need to be spelled out. For instance, maybe one partner doesn’t have a problem with internet porn and so wouldn’t consider it cheating. What if the spouse does/would? There needs to be agreement in the context of a relationship what constitutes cheating.</p>
<p>Well Corranged, you have a point (post #10). How about this: if you’re doing something that a reasonable S.O. with all the facts available to him/her would feel betrayed by, then you’re cheating.</p>
<p>It can be a grey area. D had a jealous BF, she was also good friends with a guy neighbor. It got to where she just didn’t tell BF when she was hanging out with neighbor. She wasn’t in any way romantically interested in neighbor, and wasn’t doing anything with him that she wouldn’t do with her female friends. So she wasn’t cheating. But she still didn’t tell BF because it would just make him mad. They broke up, BTW. Not a big surprise.</p>
<p>I believe that “emotional affairs” jeopardize a relationship. Anytime you are getting significant relational needs met by someone other than your partner, you are taking something away from your relationship with your partner. (“He just doesn’t understand me!”) I judge it by whether or not I would be comfortable with my actions and words in front of my spouse, or if I would be comfortable with my spouse doing/saying the same to someone else in front of me. </p>
<p>It’s mostly important to be on the same page. If neither of you has any trouble with the other one flirting, (or a variety of other actions), then it’s none of my business what works for you. But if one of you has a problem, then it’s time to talk.</p>
<p>Youdon’tsay, I’m sorry if that’s how you understood it. That is not what I actually meant, though reading back, it does sound like that. </p>
<p>What I actually meant is that we, as teenagers, have a long way to go in terms of relationship - more people to meet, more relationships to be in…etc. whereas parents have experienced these already and have devoted themselves to “marriage” - something more than a gf/bf relationship IMO…</p>
<p>Lafalum: Obviously, if one’s libido is engaged to the point of doing something about it, the lack of emotion doesn’t make it not cheating. (Although many men have argued otherwise.) But I don’t think that having a, ummm, physical reaction to someone constitutes cheating if there’s no emotional engagement AND no action, either.</p>
<p>I want to support what powerbomb just said: with young people, “cheating” isn’t necessarily so awful. Of course, it’s never great to hurt someone else, or to lie. But the process of working out what you want and with whom you want to be is long and complex, and involves a lot of trial and error. Lots of young adults find themselves in relationships that aren’t awful or abusive, or even bad, but aren’t right either. While of course it would be preferable to break up before thinking about alternatives, that’s not always how human nature works. I want people to think about alternatives; I want them to find the right other person. </p>
<p>When my now-wife and I had our first romantic discussion, she was involved with someone else. We didn’t go beyond a chaste good-bye kiss before she broke that off (and at the time I thought it was a chaste good-bye forever kiss), but she was certainly being unfaithful to the relationship, and I’m glad she was.</p>
<p>As a 21 year old in a 4 year relationship, I admit that in my teens I thought that flirting was cheating. But then I realized that everyone does it, and it doesn’t really matter. It’s part of normal interaction and can be part of building platonic friendships. However, I do believe that dishonesty is cheating- if you have to hide something from your SO, maybe that relationship isn’t worth being in. In the early stages of a bf/gf relationship, I’m not sure there’s such a thing as emotional cheating, as the two people are still learning about each other. But it’s definitely something to be concerned about in a more mature relationship.</p>