Thoughts ?
The above link is not working. I will try to find a different link.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/denver-pit-bull-city-council-vote-replacing-ban-2020-02-11/
I can’t get to the msn site for some reason, but I will come out of the closet as a reformed anti-pit bigot.
My son convinced me to foster a boxer/pit mix. It was a rescue, so we don’t have a precise idea of the mix, but she looks to have boxer and pit appearance. I insisted on a professional evaluation by a professional trainer. She barely passed the evaluation (had a tendency to “shut down” when she didn’t like the training). We nevertheless decided to keep her. She had been returned to the shelter 3 times because she was sickly and the rescuers didn’t have the financial resources to take her to the vet (mostly food allergies, which requires expensive prescription food).
Of course you can guess the rest. She is the best dog I’ve ever had. She plays gently with our rescued Jack Russel (ish, mix again). The two issues we have with her is that the workers around our renovation think it’s funny to play tug of war with her, which she of course wins, and which in turn confuses the whole alpha/beta thing. The other issue is that she thinks she’s a lap dog, and she’s mighty large (at 80+ pounds) for that, and she takes up a lot of the bed when she makes her nightly 4AM move from her bed to ours.
ETA: I have no doubt that, if someone wanted to train her from puppy to be a tough and nasty dog, it would have been possible She is scary strong, almost muscle bound (e.g, while she loves our pool, she doesn’t swim and stays on the steps).
Good for them for lifting the ban. IMO, breed specific bans target the wrong problem. Prosecute those that are abusing their dogs, involved with dog fighting, puppy millers, etc…
Good.
Dogs are just like people - they have different tolerances, different personalities, and are largely the product of how they’re raised.
I’m on our third rescue pit. We didn’t know our current one was a pit. She was listed as a lab mix when we adopted her. She is the biggest baby in the world. She’s a 60 lb lapdog that is obsessed with our baby niblings. She loves them so much and she’s sooooo gentle with them.
She thinks every dog should be her best friend - whether they want her to be or not lol.
She’s a little iffy with men, we think related to something in her past. So when new men come over and she starts showing anxiety, we put her in her safe room and she stays there until the guest leaves. Not because I think she’s going to attack, but because I can read my dog and have no intention of letting her be uncomfortable. Because that’s what good pet owners do - they listen to their pets.
Pit bull is such a misnomer too. Pit bull isn’t a breed. It’s a group of breeds. But mostly it’s a label given to any dog that has vague pit characteristics and is aggressive. I’ve seen very clearly purebred/close to pure mastiffs and rottweilers be called pits and they’re clearly not.
https://kdvr.com/news/local/denver-city-council-approves-ending-pit-bull-ban-starting-new-licensing-system/ indicates that a breed-specific license will be required instead, if signed into law by the mayor.
Seems like people are still using the breed as a (not always accurate) proxy for “owners who train their dogs to be vicious”.
Good for Denver. I’d be all for breeder / owner screenings – it’s humans who let the animals down who are the problem, IMO.
I’ve been trying to learn about pit bulls and breed-specific legislation since fostering a pit over New Year’s (part of a local shelter program to give the dogs a break and get some better information for future adopters).
I admit I came away from my research still confused. Many pit-opposers point to statistics where the number of bites is way, way higher than their proportion in the dog population. Pit proponents say that this info is faulty, that it relies on self-reporting of the breed and the bite.
If anyone can point me to some better information, I’d love to hear it. Our pit foster was a big gentle giant. I don’t think a pit will ever be in our future for a permanent pet (DH had a friend whose pit supposedly bit him while they were all laying on the couch watching TV, after years of being the peaceable family dog), but I would like to learn to inform my DH, myself and others. Thanks!
@TS0104 Here’s one - https://atts.org/breed-statistics/statistics-page1/
You’ll notice that APBT have a higher pass rate for temperment testing than family favorites like Golden Retrievers. (At least they used to. Admittedly I haven’t looked at the stats in years because I have no reason to.)
I have scars from where a standard poodle attacked me as a kid. I have precisely zero scars from any of our 3 pits (or our old rottweiler for that matter). I’ve also been bitten by my SIL’s chihuahua more than once, but of course those weren’t reported since it’s a chihuahua and didn’t really do any damage. Anecdotes are not data, of course.
This is so similar to the gun control argument.
I don’t know. Doesn’t seem to be a right or wrong answer here.
Thanks @romanigypsyeyes . According to that chart, our sweet and gentle GSD mix’s breed is slightly “worse” than a pit bull! It was interesting to read about the test.
My guess is that it is a complex issue, part of which is the breed’s use in dog fighting, which just has scary/violent connotations, the breed’s reputation, whether earned or not, causes a cycle of irresponsible pit ownership and abandonment, pits overflow the shelters and it all just snowballs. Just today at the shelter I volunteer at, they obtained a female pit, the owner had the female and her male sibling and the female was not cooperating with his attempts to mate them and he “didn’t have time for her anymore” (although he was trying to breed her, with her sibling no less).
Ignorance and irrational hatred wins out - Mayor vetoes the lifting of the ban: No repeal of Denver pit bull ban after all: Mayor to veto council decision – The Denver Post
I understand the position that many have, but insurance company statistics show otherwise.
I think that the Denver City Council put forth a reasonable law, but was surprised that it did not include a requirement related to insurance liability coverage as have so many prior laws in this area.
Web articles regarding dog bites:
https://www.maxlaws.com/dog-bite-statistics/ This cite does not work. The 2019 article update shows number of dog bites by breed. Pitbulls led by an astounding margin out of the roughly 5600 cases reported.
- Pitbulls-3397
- Rottweiler-535
- German Shepherd-113
- Bull Mastiff-111
- Wolf Hybrid-85
- Husky-83
- Akita-70
- Boxer-64
- Chow-61
- Lab-56
- Pitbull/Rottweiler mix-56
- lists Pitbull mixes
https://www.insurancejournal.com/blogs/academy-journal/2016/05/16/408427.htm
I think that it should be reported whether or not the attacking dog was spayed or neutered.
I’ll say again there is no such thing as a "pitbull"
Pit bull is not a breed. It’s a descriptor. It’s a poorly used descriptor.
I’m not having this argument because I just don’t have the time or energy, but anything that lists “pitbull” is not worth taking seriously because there’s no such thing.
Here’s an article from AKC about the above point! (PS according to the AKC, It’s true…“Pit bull” is not a breed). So this must be a factor when considering those statistics above.
We have a rescue pitbulls, something Is have sworn we’d never house. We love the dog dearly, he has shown absolutely no aggression to humans, is gentlest dog we’ve seen in that regard. He is , however, prey triggered by other animals though we have inured him drastically on that drive.
We have to treat him very very differently from any of the other dogs we have and the other dog we have right now. Because of the breed and the reputation it has, we take absolutely no chances.
The following outstanding essay really sums up how I feel about this breed.
https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a23731/american-dog-0814/
The problem with pitbulls is that too many people own them that do not take the precautions they should. I believe it is the opinions of people living in a community, city , whatever voting area to decide what regulations to have about these dogs along with other animals deemed risky. I know military bases and housing areas do not permit dogs that have the DNA of certain breeds.
So if the people of Denver have a change of heart and mind about the breed , so be it. I was fully aware of how having this dog would limit certain housing options for us as well as limiting the way we treat our dogs , in general. For example, our border collie is often permitted off leash. Never the pitbulls.
The Denver ordinance is very clear on what they consider a pit bull:
“Pit bull shall mean any dog that is an American Pit Bull Terrier, American Staffordshire Terrier, Staffordshire Bull Terrier, or any dog displaying the majority of physical traits of any one (1) or more of the above breeds, or any dog exhibiting those distinguishing characteristics which substantially conform to the standards established by the American Kennel Club or United Kennel Club for any of the above breeds. “
We had acquaintances whose independent, adult daughter headed the local pit bull rescue organization. The organization & the family all referred to it as “pit bull rescue”.
Our friends, a semi-retired couple, adopted a pit bull during one of the daughter’s rescue fairs. The couple treated the adopted dog with a tremendous amount of loving care & affection. Long story made short, the pit bull & a female companion dog escaped one day & did a lot of substantial, tragic harm; the couple quickly sold their home & left the state.
P.S. Again, I think the proposed Denver law which was veteod was reasonable as it required the potentially dangerous dogs to be spayed or neutered, and it required muzzling when off property for the first three years of ownership. Nevertheless, many feel that these restrictions are not enough. And, apparently, there is data to support that stance just as there is data to support those who oppose such measures.
Is it those breeds, or that many owners who train dogs to be vicious choose those breeds?
Note that rescue dogs of unknown history could be a risk, if the previous owners were ones who trained dogs to be vicious.