The local police news conference said both suspects were students at the school. One was 18, the other under age.
What’s heartbreaking to me is the fact discussions are had about schools being “soft targets”. Why should we make our schools fortresses?! That alone is damaging to children. Let’s get to the root of the problem and stop hiding behind some interpretation of the 2nd Amendment. States do have the right to implement and enforce state laws re: gun regulation.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/oct/05/second-amendment-right-to-bear-arms-meaning-history
I heard there was a possible third person involved that wasn’t in custody. Does anyone know anything about this? I’m a strong supporter of better gun control and more background checks for gun owners.
Is this our new normal?
States do have that right but even a state like California or a city like Chicago which have incredibly strict gun laws aren’t immune from gun violence. If I remember correctly, most of the shooters either acquired their guns legally, or in the case of Sandy Hook, killed a legal gun owner to acquire the guns. I truly believe that a person who wants a gun will find a way to get one. Criminals don’t follow gun laws. People can borrow a gun, steal a gun, buy a gun on the black market, have some one but it for them. It’s similar to the drug problem in the US…no matter how you try to control it and regulate there will be people who operate outside those parameters. The root of the problem is multifaceted and complicated, and addressing factors such as mental illness, for example, bumps up against civil liberties.
Schools should have security and fortifications if necessary. We have security in the airport, to enter Federal buildings, courthouses, to enter Disney and Universal theme parks, concert venues, NFL stadiums.
I was at a thrift store (senior discount Tuesday) about 3 miles from the school at 5 pm. The cashier helping was sort of rattled and said to me ‘I’m sorry, I’m just flustered because of the lockdown.’ She attends a different high school in Highlands Ranch and she’d been held on lockdown until 4 pm. I hadn’t even heard anything about it.
News reports in Denver say there is no third suspect - just the two in custody.
Not trying to pick a fight and I am sorry if this comes off as rude or aggressive, but I don’t think that “criminals will find a way” is a good argument. If we said that about anything why have laws at all. People speed despite speed limits, people steal despite laws against theft, but that doesn’t mean we just get rid of those laws. I would hope that stricter laws and regulations would at least make it harder for those that intend to commit these horrific acts. I could be wrong, I don’t know, but I think it’s worth a shot
@csfmap thanks for letting me know, I appreciate it
Why the shock? Twenty 5-year olds were slaughtered, some dying in their dying teacher’s arms, in an American school not so long ago. And nothing happened.
One dead? Frankly, I’m surprised it even made the news. Surely we all realize there will be many more deaths of children in our schools.
And we’re clearly OK with that. Because we’ve done NOTHING significant to stop it.
To put this in perspective, 100 people die on our roads every day. Yes, Colorado is very tragic, but is it worth reducing other people to villains for an event sensationalized by the media?
@Siena19 I completely agree with you that laws are worth enacting. But you proved the point that just because laws exist, people don’t necessarily follow them. The criminals will find a way isn’t an excuse not to enact them…the issue in my opinion is that enacting certain types of laws will conflict with the second amendment and civil liberties which complicates the issue. There’s no constitutional right to drive, or to drive faster than 55. People lose their right to drive when their licenses are suspended for too many DUIs for example and no one sues because their civil liberties are being infringed upon
Oh please. Cars serve useful purposes. Guns are for killing. Honestly, talk of “an event sensationalized by the media” makes you part of the problem.
We have examples in other countries that show that stricter gun control reduces gun deaths.
Guns are for security as well. And cars kill plenty of people.
So, what’s your solution other than turning schools into fortresses?
FYI, stricter gun laws doesn’t mean you can’t have guns for security.
And, guess what? Cars are highly regulated in terms of licensing, registration, inspections, training, etc. Wish we had that much for guns.
The cars/guns argument has been beaten to extinction in this forum… let’s not compare accidents with premeditated crime.
Please don’t let this thread get political…
If the problem were that easy to solve it would have been done long ago. I don’t claim to have the solution. I’m suggesting that we look to improve security for schools while we are trying to solve the problem.
My issue with gun laws is the slippery slope issue. Once the gov starts regulating it doesn’t know how to stop. What is considered reasonable to one person is absolute overreach to another.
Yes other countries have had some success but it’s an apples to oranges comparison as those countries have an unfettered right to legislate gun confiscation, banning certain guns etc…because they don’t have the Constitution we have. That’s not how it works in the US. Maybe someday that will change. As with many issues in this country there is no quick solution.
Well, for a few years now part of our curriculum is teaching students how to handle intruders - hiding, fleeing, fighting techniques, you name it. We just did one of them last week. It’s no longer just fire/weather drills kids need to practice.
Youngest son (college grad) and I were talking today about the gun culture/mentality our country has that doesn’t exist elsewhere (some shootings happen all over, but nowhere near what they do here in other first world countries). How can we fix it? Most shootings barely make local news, much less national. We mused about what might happen if national news devoted a segment in each news morning/evening to ALL the shootings that happened that day - akin to how the country started to figure out what war was like when the Vietnam War made the news nightly.
In the meantime, whenever we have one of our normal drills - or pretty much any time after another shooting happened - I remind my classes that proper responses to breaking up, being fired, being bored, being angry, being depressed, wanting fame, or other such things isn’t shooting other people. I do this in a humorous way to get their attention and not trigger the pretty automatic “tune out” mode teens can go in. (Something similar to, "Just telling you these things to be sure there are no gaps in your education. Apparently some basic facts in life have been missed by a few folks out there and I want to be sure no one here has missed it.) That alone can lead to a bit of discussion. Hopefully it helps.
The charts, maps, and pure data they keep on this site is mind boggling:
https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/
FWIW, they list one dead with the Colorado shooting if their info is UTD. There are eight shootings with deaths listed so far today across the country. 4780 gun deaths so far in 2019 in our country. 115 mass shootings so far in 2019. Today is the 127th day of the year, so at least mass shootings aren’t yet equal to one per day for whatever that’s worth. (A mass shooting is four or more folks getting shot in one incident - they don’t have to all die.)
Thanks for being such a good teacher, @Creekland, and going that extra step.