Depressed about internships- could use some advice

Parent Cafe
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<p>I am a longtime lurker on these boards, and I was hoping to get some advice from some of the extremely knowledgeable parents here. My own parents, as wonderful as they are, are in healthcare and have no idea how the corporate world works. </p>

<p>After entering Notre Dame as a premed, I had a change of heart and am majoring in finance; I love it and I am doing extremely well so far. I would like to go into investment banking, private equity, or corporate law. I have a cumulative 3.75, and earned a 4.0 last semester. According to my finance professor, I earned one of the highest averages in the course that anyone has gotten in several years. I’m not saying these things to brag; I am just trying to give you all the relevant facts in the situation.</p>

<p>The problem I have run into is a complete inability to land jobs, not to mention an internship. For the second summer in a row, I was completely unable to find paying work with the exception of babysitting and tutoring. I applied to dozens of places; but even retail and fast food were uninterested. I was completely willing to work minimum wage, and would have gladly accepted any job. I am completely perplexed as to why I am not being hired, and terrified of what this dearth of experience is doing to my resume. </p>

<p>I think there are several factors working against me. First, all of my previous paid work is in biomedical research, which I fear employers may find irrelevant. Also, I am from a midsize midwestern town with a struggling economy. Finally, though my parents are solidly upper-middle class, they do not have the connections that are so crucial in this field.</p>

<p>I am trying to make the lemonade from the lemons and am tutoring and doing volunteer work, but I feel incredibly discouraged. I have also taken two jobs on campus for fall so that I can build my resume and make some money. I am afraid my parents think I’m lazy and not trying, and I am starting to resent my classmates with similar or lesser credentials who seem to be getting internships with big-name companies entirely through connections. </p>

<p>Most of all, I want to do everything possible to get a good internship next summer, which is the crucial summer before senior year and will likely have a large impact on my job after graduation. I am going to start very early looking for next summer, and make an appointment with my school’s career center. I also know I will need to relocate next summer, as the internships I’m looking for simply don’t exist in towns like mine. </p>

<p>Do you have any advice or encouragement for me? It is a constant struggle for me not to worry about the future; for the first time in my life hard work doesn’t seem to be paying off.</p>

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<p>Well, I think part of the problem may be that you have not been willing/able to relocate. Obviously you will have to go where the jobs are. At the same time – you don’t want to go to the most competitive places – there are a lot of jobs in New York City and Washington DC, but there is also a lot of competition for them. Better to target cities that are a little bit off the beaten path, or companies that have offices in many places. </p>

<p>My daughter has had some great internships – but she went looking for them on her own – she used the internet to find the places she wanted to work for and then sent emails to inquire. She is extremely proactive and tries to get the name of the appropriate person at the agency where she wants to work, and then phone or email directly – she does not wait for internships to be posted or announced.</p>

<p>So one thing to really be aware of is that you want to find the jobs before they are listed. </p>

<p>The other thing is that you can make your own “connections” simply by contacting people and using them to link you in to other people. In other words, you want to work for Agency A in the finance dept; you search around Agency A’s web site for the names, phone numbers, or emails of someone high up in the finance dept; you then call or email that person and say that you would like to intern for that company, and ask who you should contact. Now lets say that they once you get the name of the right person, Jane Bigwig she tells you that her company only hires interns through interviewing at Ivy U. Then you say, “I’m sorry to learn that. Do you know a company I might try instead? Do you know the name of someone I can contact there?”</p>

<p>So now after some detective work you have been told to contact John Manager at Company X. You call or email John Manager and then say, “Jane Bigwig at Agency A gave me your name and suggested I contact you.” (now, you’ve got a connection – you are being entirely truthful and dropping the name of the person who doesn’t know you, but did in fact make the suggestion). </p>

<p>The other thing to realize is that going into investment banking is going to be hugely competitive if you try to get a position at a major firm. On the other hand, “finance” is something that is a concern for small start up companies, nonprofits, and just about any other concern that ever handles money. So you need to think creatively and not just go for internships in the obvious spots.</p>

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<p>Thanks for your feedback, Calmom. I’ve already done a lot of what you suggested, though I can definitely do more regarding making my own connections. I went to multiple company presentations on campus, and at all of them I spoke to several representatives and got their business cards. I was willing to relocate this summer, and applied for finance jobs in multiple cities (not NY). I also realize that ibanking is a huge long shot and I am not limiting my search to those companies. I will be more aggressive with my strategies, though, and apply what you’ve said. Thanks for the wise advice.</p>

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<p>Maybe you need to work on your interviewing skills? Did you apply too late for the minimum wage jobs?</p>

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<p>By the time I got to the minimum wage places after I realized I couldn’t get something more relevant to my skills, it was later than optimal, so I know that was a factor there. I never got an interview beyond a quick 2 minute chat with the manager. They all lost interest when they realized I would leave for school in the fall, and told me they would hire me for sure otherwise. Unfortunately I think the economy is so weak in my town that they can fill low-wage jobs with people who can work year-round. I am pretty sure I interview well, based on feedback from my college interviewers and scholarship results. I am definitely making an appointment for a practice interview with my career center, though.</p>

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<p>Have you joined any student chapters of professional business organizations at college? You could get internship tips from them, and also get professional contacts by going to conventions and other events. Those contacts can lead to jobs.</p>

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No, my point is to look OUTSIDE the obvious places for positions. The companies who interview on campus are sure to have plenty of applicants from your campus. </p>

<p>My d. used her college career center for guidance for finding resources – but the problem with the companies who come to your campus is that they are going to get inquiries and applications from all the other students who also attended their presentations. </p>

<p>You want to be applying to companies that aren’t as visible – so you would narrow your field of competition. They are much less likely to have a formalized hiring process, as well – and the best way to line up an internship is to have it all agreed upon weeks or months before the company would get around to posting a job listing.</p>

<p>You said that the internships don’t exist in towns like yours. Did you initiate contacts with companies in your town? </p>

<p>My d. has an amazing internship this summer. It also totally unique – she essentially created her own position. She did have a connection, but it was a friend-of-a-friend thing. You have to follow up on that & initiate contacts. “Connections” are something you create on your own via “networking”.</p>

8

<p>I think you have already learned several valuable lessons on Economics. Your desire to get into IB, PE, and CLaw, depends not on so much as your grades and scores but on your ability to relate to people and conditions.</p>

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<p>My big question: Are you falling short before or after the interview? </p>

<p>If you’re not hearing back and aren’t getting interviews, you need to get your resume and cover letters looked at by the career services people at your school focused on corporate recruiting. If you’re getting interviews and aren’t getting offers, you need to work on your interviewing skills. Are you confident? Are you sociable? Do you feel uncomfortable around people? Do you smell funny? :)</p>

<p>Have you been following up on your contacts? Do you follow up after applying for positions? If not, start doing that.</p>

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<p>This was a very tough year to get jobs in finance. My advice would be to contact Notre Dame alums in this (or related) fields. You can get the contact info for ND alums in the field from the ND placement office.</p>

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<p>“I went to multiple company presentations on campus, and at all of them I spoke to several representatives and got their business cards.”</p>

<p>Did you do anything else?
Ask them for advice on getting an internship? You could do that in person or could do that by following up with a gracious e-mail that also includes your resume.</p>

<p>What use have you made of ND’s career center? Such places usually offer excellent career counseling, workshops on how to get jobs and internships, contact info for alum who are willing to help students, etc.</p>

<p>Are you in any campus organizations related to business or are you doing anything related to business in any campus organizations regardless of what those organization’s purpose is? For instance, serving as treasurer of an organization, assisting in organizing fundraisers, doing virtually anything that requires work and responsibility will give you valuable skills as well as activities to add to your resume.</p>

<p>Activities – not just high grades – are what can help students get internships. in fact, if an employer has a choice between a candidate with acceptable, but not stellar grades, and impressive ECs that include leadership, networking, etc. and a candidate who has only top grades, the employer may pick the former applicant because the employer may feel that applicant has the social skills and sophistication to fit well into a business environment.</p>

<p>Having recruited students for internships for a Fortune 500 company, I know that ECs are very important when it comes to getting internships. It’s not just the grades. When it comes to the type of internships you’re looking for a passive student with sky high grades and no ECs will be passed over in favor of a campus leader with assertiveness.</p>

<p>People involved in the fields that you mention tend to be very involved in their communities, too, so it would be good if you started getting involved now. Having good networking skills is important for the fields you mentioned.</p>

<p>An excellent way to locally network this summer would be to get involved as a volunteer in some political campaigns of whatever candidates you believe in. It’s a wonderful way to meet people including professionals in a variety of fields, and it’s a good way to acquire skills that are useful in any field.</p>

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<p>How much did you use the career center on campus besides going to the presentations? They should be maintaining a database of internship opportunities, should be available to help you finetune your resume, interview skill s, cover letter,etc. Also, does the finance dept (or business school, or the entity the finance major falls under) handle their own placements? S’s major dep’t at his University handles their own database and placement help in addition to the career center.
Was part of the problem that your work had to be paid (a term you used in your original post)? Most internships are unpaid.Maybe that was part of the problem. For next summer, you may need to consider something unpaid, and perhaps in a bigger locale.
Get involved in any relevant to your major organization on campus,and search out relevant opportunities.Connections are made that way.
S’s dep’t for example, runs an industry conference every year. His first two years, he volunteered at the conference, and this year he was rewarded for that with a titled position on the student board of the conference.His name is in print in the conference materials and its something to add to his resume.
You need to be thinking “networking” at every chance you get. So many times,especially for those first opportunities, its going to be who you know more than what you know. Exploit the resources of your dept and school.
Do you have a favorite professor? Go to their office hours and ask for mentoring help. This approach helped my D immensely when she decided on Grad School.She approached two profs in her undergrad dept who were so pleased to have someone wanting their help and guidance.</p>

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<p>“Was part of the problem that your work had to be paid (a term you used in your original post)? Most internships are unpaid.Maybe that was part of the problem. For next summer, you may need to consider something unpaid, and perhaps in a bigger locale.”</p>

<p>This especially is true of first internships. I’ve had low income students who took unpaid summer internships away from their hometowns and worked second jobs to support themselves. The experience they got on those internships helped them get paid internships later and excellent jobs after graduation.</p>

<p>If you can get course credit for doing an unpaid internship, that may also make it more affordable. However, even if you can’t, it’s worth it to take an unpaid internship because that’s the ticket to more lucrative internships as well as jobs after graduation.</p>

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<p>I went to wharton and this problem was evident there as well, esp. soph and junior yr. The very top (3.9+) of the class could easily get an IB internship through on campus recruiting w/o contacts and there were tons of people with lower grades who had contacts to help find an internship - contacts were even helpful in on campus recruiting, so it felt like the solid 3.7 type students without contacts were left out in the cold.</p>

<p>I would definitely apply through on campus recruiting for internships after the junior yr, but I wouldn’t count on it just working out, esp. since internship programs are going to get a bit smaller with this economy. Also, while it’s good to go to presentations, talk to the recruiters etc. – realize that it has little impact because every single student in your dep’t has probably submitted a resume and half of them are probably having the same post-presentation conversation as you.</p>

<p>In addition to on campus, I would start going to websites of any company that interests you that doesn’t come to your campus and develop an excel file of info/contact names. Then in the fall, start calling people and asking if they hire interns and what the process is for applying etc. When you get people on the phone, I would spin it by saying that you’re interested but unfortunately that company doesn’t come to ND for recruiting so you’d like to do whatever you can to be considered. You may get some hits this way – ND is a solid school and your resume may stand out at an east coast firm that only sees east coast university resumes; there are some companies that like to have diverse summer analyst classes from various schools, rather than just hiring their 50th penn person. </p>

<p>Also, be geographically flexible – whether you want to live in charlotte, atlanta, dc, or nyc for a summer – apply any way; if you can get a job there, you can handle it for 3 months and if you really don’t like the city it’ll still be easier to get a job after senior yr when you already have one offer in hand. And don’t let cost of living/housing considerations get in the way of applying; lots of people skip NYC even though there are tons of finance jobs, esp at smaller companies, because they worry about spending so much on summer housing that they won’t break even – if you get the job, you can somehow work those things out.</p>

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<p>We have a college student who is at a top business school working for us this summer. He had living accommodations in the bay area and worked through lots of connections to try to get an internship up there. Nothing. He couldn’t even get a call for an interview and I am clear that he worked hard to find something. </p>

<p>He ended up back in our small town and is working doing low level programming and IT stuff for our small business. It isn’t directly related to his ultimate career goal but he has something other than fast food to put on his resume and we have a casual work atmosphere. He is a long term friend of our sons so we have known him for about 15 years. </p>

<p>My point is that it is difficult to get these internships in today’s economic climate. The employer is putting in time and money knowing full well that just about the time you can really be productive you will be heading back to college. </p>

<p>The other posters had good advice. Be flexible, work alumni connections from your school. My only other add on would be to know that you are not the only one out there in this situation.</p>

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<p>To clarify, I did a lot of searching in my hometown. I inquired at nearly all the large companies, and did a lot of what you suggested regarding followup. It’s hard to give all the relevant facts without writing a post the length of a book. I am very involved in ECs on my campus, I am active in several that are directly related to business and then additional ECs that I do more for personal enjoyment. I am doing an unpaid internship this summer with a nationally known service organization. I guess I was worried that companies wouldn’t care about that because its volunteer, and all my friends are making around $20 an hour at big companies or law firms. </p>

<p>I really appreciate everyone’s wisdom on this subject. Networking is a skill that most people aren’t born with, and it hasn’t been mentioned much in class yet. It’s encouraging to hear that you can build your own connections; thanks for the concrete advice on how to do that.</p>

<p>Taking your advice into account, here’s my game plan for next fall.

  1. As soon as I get back to school, make an appointment to review my resume and do a practice interview.
  2. Find ways to develop leadership in my ECs, including adding some more if necessary.
  3. Apply for internships both through campus recruiting and through aj725’s great advice about using company websites for contacts.
  4. Follow up with the contacts I make at any recruiting session I attend.</p>
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<p>“I am doing an unpaid internship this summer with a nationally known service organization.”</p>

<p>Wonderful. Make sure that you assertively create opportunities for yourself. Don’t just sit around and wait to be told what to do. Look for needs that could be met, an then on your own think about what you could do to address those needs. Make sure that these actions depend on you and won’t cause further strain on the organization.</p>

<p>After you figure that out, approach a supervisor with your idea.</p>

<p>For instance, a h.s. student whom I knew was appointed to the board of the service organization for our local library, becoming the first teen who was on the board. She noticed that the organization’s website was way out of date so on her own, she designed a new site, and then showed it to the board – as a proposal – after she had finished designing it.</p>

<p>While in h.s., my son volunteered extensively with our county’s organization that placed volunteers throughout the county. On his own, he got training in a conflict resolution program, then proposed that he train some students in that program. That led to his training about 100 people. As a result this summer – two years later – he and 2 other youths who had gone through his program designed, organized and are running a free 7-day youth camp that is offered through the volunteer program.</p>

<p>S is doing this as part of a summer job, but his assertiveness in showing leadership while being a volunteer is what led to the job. If S had an interest in business internships, his volunteer and job experiences could help hem get such things because the organizational skills he’s used and developed could be useful in any field.</p>

<p>What kind of volunteer work are you doing? How have you been adding value to the organization that you volunteer with?</p>

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<p>Join/attend business groups. Join Toastmasters, which you learn more and work harder than any college course for a lot less money.</p>

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<p>Indiana, I PMd you.</p>

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<p>My D was a not a finance major. She did, however, get one of the most desirable internships in finance after her junior year in college. There was only one student in the program who hadn’t gone to a name college. He went through every directory he could get his hands on and wrote personalized notes to every alum from his college in the field. These were not generic cover letters. He got a job. </p>

<p>When you get back to school, find out where the “rising” seniors worked this summer. Find out as much as you can from them–what the job involved, the interviewing or screening process, what the company is doing, whether they got a permanent offer. Usually, when companies have a good experience with kids from a particular college, they tend to look quite favorably on other applicants from that college. Ask if you can use the student’s name to explain how you learned about the job. As soon as you get the info, write to the company, expressing interest. (My D was interviewed for her summer job in October.) *Do this even if the rising senior got the job through personal connections. *You now have a connection too.</p>

<p>If you belong to student organizations, ask other students for help. My kid’s EC involved lots of colleges. They have a website. The kids pass on information about jobs and internships. Several smaller companies have actually come to rely on this group to fill jobs–both for summers and full time entry level employees. Small companies don’t have the resources to send recruiters out to dozens of colleges. They have a good experience with one student intern. When that student hands in a resume or a small group of resumes saying something like “I loved this job. I told my friend X about it and he’d love to do it next year. Here’s his resume” it’s VERY tempting for the small company to interview that kid and if (s)he seems all right to hire him/her. </p>

<p>Look at things like facebook to find recent ND grads who have jobs with companies that might interest them. Shoot them an email saying that you attend ND, you’d like a job like they have and would really appreciate it if they could make any suggestions as to how to go about it. Also look for people from your hometown and do the same. </p>

<p>Good luck!</p>