<p>My D was in a group of 4 to prepare a french video presentation. The assignment was a hotel advertisement. The group went to a Hilton and spent 5 hours interviewing staff and shooting scenes. The other 3 girls spoke fluent Russian. My D thought that it would be a cool addition to the video to add an interview with the girls speaking Russian, and put the translation in French subtitles underneath. She wrote a script for them, and they shot the scene. After they had shot many other scenes they left the hotel. She was then told that they had said some things off script in Russian, some of which were inappropriate. My D had no time to reshoot the footage, but still needed that part because interviews were a requirement of the video. She took the raw footage, and we left early Saturday morning for an overnight college visit. We came back late Sunday afternoon. My D spent 5 hours editing the video to be ready to hand in the next morning. No help or guidance from the other girls. She did the best she could with that Russian interview, editing it to match the subtitles as well as possible. No other kid in the class speaks Russian, so anything on the video was understood only by the 3 girls who said it.
The teacher suspected that the girls were not saying what was in the subtitles, and went to find someone to translate. Turns out that these stupid girls had said some things about loving black men. (why I dont’ know…guess they thought it was funny (not funny—a collosal mistake in judgment and a stupid thing to do), but it had nothing to do with the script) I don’t know if these girls are racist; I doubt it, but I don’t know. My D is not. she is going to the prom in 2 weeks with an african american guy. Not an issue for her. but the teacher found this incendiary, and took it to the principal and grade-level administrator. The girls were called down, and interviewed both alone and together. Needless to say, the other girls did not reveal that my D was unaware of what they were saying. My D refused to say anything but that she had nothing to do with that interview besides shooting and editing it. She was unable to speak about any other aspect of it. She said she had done nothing wrong. The staff went on to pick apart the video, saying that many other parts were inappropriate. They picked on the fact that the girls wore shorts or skirts and showed their legs in the beginning. my D had shot it as a kind of ‘charlie’s angels’ beginning, with the music on it to make that clear. It showed each girl arriving and getting out of cabs, cars, etc, just the legs and feet walking and climbing stairs and going through a revolving door to ultimately meet in the courtyard. They criticized the fact that 2 of the girls were shown in bathing suits while describing and showing the pool in the hotel. They criticized a bathroom scene in which 3 of the girls’ feet were shown beneath stalls (with some admittedly tasteless noises and giggling as accompaniment).
The upshot of this is that all 4 girls have 2 Saturday detentions, and are getting a 0 on the project. This was worth a large part of the quarter’s grade, and the 0 will pull down my daugher’s GPA significantly. She is a junior and had the GPA and SAT scores to get the scholarship money she needs for her first choice college. Without the scholarship, she can’t attend that school because we can’t afford it. this situation might bring her down enough to ruin that.
I am angry at my D for letting this happen. I am angry at the teacher for blowing it out of proportion. I am furious that after 11 hours of work, most on her own, my D will get a 0 on something she put her heart into because of 3 stupid, unthinking, unfunny teenaged girls. She had written the vast majority of the video, had shot most of it on our camera, and had done the hours and hours of editing on her own. None of the other aspects of the video would have been singled out if the other girls had not said those stupid things. Kids do videos in school all the time, and many are similar if not more scatalogical or racier. (racy!! it was bathing suits in a pool, for gods’ sake!) It’s typical teenage stuff.
My D reported to me that this french teacher has fostered an open atmosphere in that class. She says that she never would have made such a funny silly video in english or math class becasue the teachers are not as relaxed. This french teacher has brought in photos of herself in a skimpy costume as a Las vegas show girl. She has shown pix of her drinking with underaged students on a school trip to Italy. She has shown the kids pictures of herself naked as a 6-year old. (that one made the kids uncomfortable)
What would you guys do, if anything? I made my D recut the video last night, taking out any potentially ‘offensive’ shots of them in shorts, in the bathroom, and especially the entire Russian language scene. I doubt that the teacher will give her credit for any of it, but I made her do it as a consequence of her poor judgment in the whole thing. What this 0 coould potentially do to my D seems to far outweight her involvement in this fiasco. Thoughts?</p>
<p>Tanya, I’m sorry to hear about your d’s situation. Sadly, there is no way to prove that d was not aware of the “funny” Russian segment. The bathroom bit does sound vulgar & a case of bad judgment. </p>
<p>What struck me was your last paragraph, where you speak of the French teacher’s “open” & “relaxed” class. Drinking with underage students. Showing the Vegas pix. Naked pix of herself as a six year old. Why the heck would she do this? She sounds unbalanced. This ties in to the long thread in parents cafe started by Berurah, on how chummy & familiar should teachers get with the students. Your D’s French teacher crossed the line. And look at the result!
So teachers who maintain a professional atmosphere, expecting students to see them not as peers, but as trusted authority teachers, really DO know what they’re doing.</p>
<p>The black men “joke” may actually have been directed at your d, as she’s going to prom with a black kid.</p>
<p>Jeez. Never thought of that. I agree with the assessment of this teacher. She has been a problem for several years. My d has ADHD that is unmedicated because of side effects. That teacher first encouraged her last year to be outspoken and bubbly, then came down on her severely a few months into the term. At that point my D became silent in fear of getting yelled at in front of everyone again. The teacher started failing her on participation becasue she wasnt her usual talkative self. We had to have a meeting with her and the guidance couselor to mediate that one. The teacher admitted that she wasn’t failing the normally shy, quiet kids…just my D. It took my D months to have the courage to speak up in class again. And this woman wonders why she became silent? Same deal here…Mixed signals much?</p>
<p>[The black men “joke” may actually have been directed at your d, as she’s going to prom with a black kid.]</p>
<p>I thought the same thing.</p>
<p>I’m not sure there is more you can do, tanyanubin, but I feel your pain. I’m sorry your dd will have such negative consequences, particularly in light of that teacher’s past behaviors. It sounds like you COULD make more of that issue, but I probably would have your dd take these consequences, and chalk it up to a (admittedly painful and somewhat unjust) experience.</p>
<p>Jeez, this is a tough one. Maybe you should arrange a private meeting with the principal and the staff that was involved in the original decision. If your daughter has an otherwise impeccable record, you might be able to convince them that, because she does not speak Russian, she had no way of knowing what was said. (And still doesn’t – except for what she was told.)</p>
<p>You might also need to brace yourself for the possibility that she <em>did</em> know, which is what the other girls may have told the French teacher. It’s entirely possible that one of the girl proposed a “funny” video where they said one thing in Russian and the French subtitles said another. It’s a common joke. Therefore, while your daughter may not have known exactly what they were saying, she knew that they were not speaking the lines as originally written. You should determine whether this was the case BEFORE you set up the meeting. Ask her if she will maintain the same story when in a room with both the administrators and the other girls. </p>
<p>The French teacher was obviously inappropriate in her classroom. If you arrange such a meeting and want to bring up the atmosphere that made the video possible, be judicious with your examples. Don’t bring up the French teacher’s changing attitude toward your daughter (admin translation = “Another annoying parent who doesn’t know what’s really going on”), but definitely talk about the relaxed atmosphere and the photos (maybe not the drinking one - your aim is not to get her fired.) </p>
<p>I learned that we parents need to be the advocates for our children because no one else cares as much as we do. You do have to choose your battles carefully – and fight them with cunning instead of obvious anger.</p>
<p>I don’t know how much it will help, because there is plenty that is offensive, but I do think you should document that your D does not know Russian, and that the comments were not to her knowledge. You can even point out that the racist comments may have been directed toward her and she “takes offense.” </p>
<p>I would put it in writing (like I do everything!) and send multiple copies. Explain your concern over your D’s actions, the consequences you imposed, and also request that they determine how much of the punishment was due to the racist comments and that she be exempted from that. If it were me, I would also, in the “nicest possible way”, explain your concerns with the teacher.</p>
<p>Because your d did make an honest effort to fulfill the terms of this assignment, I believe she deserves a grade far better than 0. The 2 Saturday detentions should suffice to atone for any offensive material in the video. This teacher’s judgment is poor, and her behavior clearly unprofessional; therefore, why should your d simply accept this teacher’s assessment that she deserves no credit for the assignment? </p>
<p>In your situation (and my sympathies for it - what an unfortunate mess!), I’d go with my d to the school principal, and bring a copy of the teacher’s written assignment and grading rubric, if your d has them. I’d be particularly interested in anything the teacher may have said about taking off points for presentation. I’d let my d do all the talking unless and until it appeared that the principal intended to back the teacher fully - then I’d speak up about the impact on your d’s GPA, her college hopes, and why it would be so wrong for your d to pay such a heavy price for some minor misjudgment and the deliberate wrongdoings of others. If that didn’t work, I’d go with my d to the district superintendent, and then to the president of our school board. (My d has a wonderful GC - I’d actually contact her first. But not everyone is so lucky!) </p>
<p>In this case, I think it’s very important be your kid’s advocate and squeak like that proverbial wheel. And I say that as someone who, in 35 kid-years of public education, has spoken to a principal about a problem with a teacher exactly once. Your d made an error, and she’s paying for it. But the teacher’s punishment is out of line, and should certainly be questioned.</p>
<p>I don’t think a single 0 in one subject is going to jeopardize a certain college acceptance and scholarship. I suspect your D might have known just a little more than she admitted to you or at least suspected something about the russion segment. Even if not, comon sense would dictate that someone other than the three giggling girls listen to the Russian in the video. And other parts of it were in poor taste. </p>
<p>She may have to just learn from this and move on. What she learns from this and how she changes might be far more valuable than anything else.</p>
<p>Thanks so much for the feedback. My d claims that she did know that there was other material on the video when she handed it in, but it was too late to fix it. It seems that the comments were a “friendly” jab at her going to the prom with a black kid. I agree that her judgment was faulty for handing it in, but she claims to have panicked over the deadline, and I know that she had no help in editing it—took her hours and hours. To have taken out that section would have detracted from their grade, because an interview was in the rubric. Editing just that one sentence out would have taken much more time, because it would have required much more serious editing. All I can do is talk to the powers that be at this point, and find out what their view is. God, I hate this school. Can’t wait til she’s out of it.</p>
<p>I agree with frazzled. A zero is obviously unfair. In your meeting with the principal/GC you might ask what the teacher had to say about this situation. I suspect she said something to covered for herself at the expense of the students, hence the zeros.</p>
<p>You might allude to racial harassment re: the comments that were obviously directed at your daughter’s choice of prom date. (Spoken privately this would be overreacting I suppose, but putting it on tape was way over the line, IMO, and obviously ignorant).</p>
<p>I’d make the point that word of this will get out and make group projects far less desirable, as a kid’s work may go unrewarded and even become punitive. Is that what the school wants?</p>
<p>I’d love to know what the Russian parents have to say about their daughter’s zeros. These problems seem to be impossible to avoid or solve. Good luck to you both!</p>
<p>This has only a little bit to do with your post, but is on the subject of video editing: KIds at my D’s old high school sure end up doing a lot of video projects, and I doubt that the teachers know how long it does take to edit them. On several occasions, my D stayed up nearly all night to edit films that were supposed to be a “fun” project.
On one occasion her friends in another class were here til 4 in the morning, using our computer software for the edit…my D wasn’t even in the class with them, but she had offered them the use of our camera and software. I think the teachers assume a video project is point and shoot, but several times my husband had to get involved because of editing difficulties plus we had to buy new editing software.
Part of it is getting all the kids together outside of school, only as the deadline looms do they make a serious effort to get together to shoot the film, but the editing does take about 8 hours and I don’t know if the teachers are aware of that fact.
Sorry about your D’s situation. I hope she is able to get partial credit for the project as it is now.</p>
<p>This is a very tough situation. It is compounded by the fact that it was a group project and not just your D’s actions. In fact, some of what she is in trouble for are things that the other girls decided to do. Also, as in any group project, certain kids do most of the work (you mention lots of hours of editing). I think if the video was inappropriate, there should be consequences but I think the consquences here are overkill. The detentions are appropriate. As far as the grade, a zero is too harsh from what I can tell. I think the aspects that were not in good taste should be marked down on the rubric for content or whatever the criteria is. There are other aspects they did well…in on time, editing, French translations, whatever the other criteria are on the rubric. They could not possibly have earned a zero on each criteria in the rubric. They should be marked down on the areas that were not OK only. </p>
<p>Anyway, I think you should ask for a meeting with the teacher, your child, and the department head. I would explain much of what you explained here. Get into the group nature of it…how the other girls were the ones who knew Russian and chose to do what they did on that segment and that your D did not have total control over that. She was unable to edit it all out in the end as she would have been missing required content. She can explain that she had also done much more of the work. She can get into that some of the parts, such as the bathroom humor, she misjudged the appropriateness because she thought the teacher has a relaxed atmosphere and didn’t realize this had crossed a line. She also can say that the remarks about Black males were made by the other girls and not herself and she was in an awkward situation because they were jabbing at her since she has a Black male date for prom. It wasn’t exactly her idea for that to be said and she didn’t know what to say or do about it when the other girls included it. She was on the receiving end even if the friends thouight it was funny (it really is not). Also, she can explain that she has redone the video to take out the offensive content and would like some credit for the work she HAS done. A zero is more appropriate for someone who has done NO work at all. A lowered grade is appropriate for someone who needs to be marked down for not meeting certain criteria on a rubric. That fits this situation, and the former does not. As well, she can show some remorse and ask if there is an extra project she could do to turn things around as her intentions were to work hard (note the hours she put into this project). IN other words, ask how you can all work together to improve the situation. Perhaps she is required to do an entirely new project and receive a late grade or something. Ask if you can problem solve a solution. Make sure your D explains what she feels she did wrong but also defend the few things mentioned above as well, since some of these ideas were the other girls’ and being in a group project, she did not have total control. She was the person doing filming and editting and they took on the role of scripting. This is the negative aspect of group projects even though they have other redeeming values. Your D can offer to make it up by redoing the assignment or whatever the teacher would like her to do. A zero is not something she deserves because it is not like she did ZERO work. A lowered grade is appropriate. An option to do a new project is also appropriate. IF your D has a good record in this class until now, she has more to stand on as well. </p>
<p>Good luck. There are ways to advocate while still coming across as “we want to work together to solve this problem.”</p>
<p>Thanks for the input. The other girls did not write the script, my D did. She thought that they were following it. She based the subtitles on it. She only found out what they had done far after she could have rescued it. They did very little if any of the work, from writing to shooting to editing. I think I will contact the department head, as I have tried to contact the grade level administrator (who has left until next wednesday) and the teacher (who has not responded to several emails) and the principal (who has not answered my calls). I agree that the punishment does not fit the crime, especially with so much at stake—she could lose her chance for a merit scholarship because of this! I don’t agree with the detentions, but I’m not fighting that. The grade is what concerns me. I really, really hesitate to bring up anything that the teacher is doing in the classroom that is a little unorthodox. I would hate to see her fired or disciplined, but if she fails to respond or to address this, all bets will have to be off.</p>
<p>If I were in your shoes, I would try to lobby for at least half credit on the video project. They are being punished by the Saturday detentions for their group’s inappropriate comments/behavior, which I think is enough. A zero for the project has longer-reaching consequences that are in excess of the “offense” in my opinion. I would write a letter to the teacher explaining your position and why you are pursuing this matter with the principal, and if necessary, with the superintendent of schools and even the school board. Have a meeting with the teacher and the principal and GC. I think they need to be reminded that no one in the class was going to be offended by comments they couldn’t understand, that the teacher has fostered a laid-back attitude (the Vegas photo, etc.) and that while the comments about dating a black guy were inappropriate, the rest of the video was more juvenile and silly than truly offensive. They completed the project; they didn’t plagiarize or cheat…I think they deserve at least half credit for what they turned in. If nothing else is accomplished, speaking up one more time, particularly with the GC will give you the opportunity to have your daughter’s side of the story heard one more time by someone who will be writing a recommendation for her. I would want the GC to have a very good grasp on my D’s side of the story, not just the teacher’s spin on it.</p>
<p>tanya…Right now, yes, stick to this situation and not what the teacher does in the classroom. Explain it to them just as you have to us. The other girls did not follow the script. Your D doesn’t speak Russian. She learned of what they had done far past when she could have redone the project. She had written a different script and also she was the one who put all the hours into editing. She wasn’t sure how to handle the less savory parts of the film and understands why those were not acceptable. Being a group project, she was in an awkward position as the input was not all hers alone to make. The remarks about a Black male came from them and if anything was directed at her. She should acknowledge where she can see these aspects as inappropriate. Being a group project, she can say she sees how she might have to take the fall for that even though a lot of that aspect was beyond her own control. Nonetheless, she should ask for credit for the work she DID do. She should not get a zero for zero work. She (with you) should offer to redo the project eliminating the offensive content and expect a lower grade for meeting certain criteria on the rubric and not meeting the other criteria satisfactorily on the first try. </p>
<p>Education should be about educating. This is a learning opportunity, you can say, to make right the parts that were wrong. A zero is simply punitive. Partial credit and redoing are appropriate so that they may learn a better way to handle the assignment. Your D can even ask for some coaching as to how she could have handled decisions made by other members of the group in a different way. I am not saying she should get off scott free but she is asking to explain her position to set the record straight, to also apologize for what was not appropriate, and to make up the assignment or redo it for partial credit so that she can learn from this situation. Normally I would go to the teacher first. IF the teacher is not responding to you (give her a couple of days), you have no other option but to take it to the next level in the “chain of command.” Frankly, it is pretty bad that she is not responding to you. Make sure you don’t come across as complaining or upset but that you want to meet to discuss this and to find some solutions so that your D can learn from this experience. Come across as “I want to work WITH you.”</p>
<p>tanya~</p>
<p>If your relaying of this story is accurate, and I’m operating on the assumption that it is, my heart goes out to your D. </p>
<p>It is VERY true that different teachers foster different levels of openness in a classroom. Students are VERY well aware of this and adjust their conduct accordingly. IMHO, I find your last paragraph disturbing, and I think that this teacher crossed the boundaries of professional/appropriate behavior in some significant ways, and this boundary crossing may have contributed to the perception your D’s project-mates brought to how well-received a “joke,” however off color, may have been.</p>
<p>I am <em>NOT</em> condoning in <em>ANY</em> way the actions of the girls who said inappropriate comments, even in Russian. However, the fact that the comments WERE said in Russian and that the teacher had to go to great lengths to have them translated tells me that they were most likely not expecting anyone to understand them or become offended by them…in other words, it was an INSIDE off-color joke.</p>
<p>I think the teacher’s reaction in this case is WAAAAAAAAY overboard and there is NO reason, in this day and age with all the general garbage that goes on in high schools, for any of those girls to be made examples of for this admittedly poor judgment call that a teacher decided to blow all out of proportion, especially given that she had already shown borderline inappropriate pictures of HERSELF <em>IN CLASS</em>.</p>
<p>Without going into detail, my son had something similar happen in eighth grade when a group of kids he was working with put a word in a “book” they were writing that ended with all of them in a three-day, in school suspension. My son had advised the group to take out the word and when they didn’t want to, he actually went up and ASKED the teacher and she approved its use. Unfortunately for everyone, when the books were read aloud, she was absent and the substitute assigned a three-day suspension for the entire group of four students. </p>
<p>You may wonder what word could be offensive enough to warrant such a tough punishment? The word was “intercourse.”</p>
<p>Apparently, in our district, it’s O.K. to HAVE it and display the consequences of it proudly in school newspapers and yearbooks, but you’d better not WRITE it…<em>rofl</em></p>
<p>If I were you, I’d fight this strongly. It seems as if your D has a great deal to lose here, and it’s simply not worth the cost, given the circumstances and the fact that she was unaware of the content.</p>
<p>~berurah</p>
<p>Unbelievably, I just talked to the principal. He actually said that he thinks they got off lightly, even my D, and even assuming that she didn’t know the russian. He also told me that what the girls eventually told my D they had said was much much less serious than what they did say. He thinks they should be suspended for the video for being inappropriate. I can see that a line has been drawn in the sand on this one. I hope to get in touch with the GC before more damage can be done. I have asked the principal to call her down to talk to her. If he is unfair and continues to persecute her (they had her crying yesterday) I will have to go to the board of ed. He said “I guess they’ve learned a really hard lesson with some serious consequences.” when I asked him whether he thought that was out of proportion, he said no.</p>
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<p>In my opinion, just as a strategic matter, this is the wrong approach, only focusing on the grade. If you think it’s wrong, it’s all wrong, the grade, the detention, everything. Otherwise, you end up looking like a parent that just wants to make sure her daughter maintains good grades no matter what. And teachers have to deal with a lot of bull about that all the time.</p>
<p>Tanyanubin, I really, really, feel for you and your daughter on this one. I can just see how it was too - in the first place, in my experience as well as in what you described in your first post, these high school projects are ridiculous in terms of the time and resources they tend to consume, especially in porportion to benefit back to the students. So I can well imagine your daughter starting off with plenty of time to have planned the project, then having to spend all those hours editing and correcting, and then, already overworked and heavily invested in the project, the frantic push to meet the deadline - given the same situation I do not believe ANY high school student would have opted for permitting the project to be late to make edits on subject matter that they believed to be somewhat benign and furthermore in a language they do not speak.</p>
<p>In addition, though I am not literate in Russian I do know something about the translation and transliteration processes, and, it would have been impossible for your daughter to have made the corrections on her own, or, for that matter, even to have recognized the inappropriate comments. It’s not like Spanish or something where a person can more or less work out the language, or where it is easier to find people in one’s community who know the language. </p>
<p>Perhaps the girls should not have put Russian in the video in the first place, but, who would ever stop to think that they might play an unfortunate practical joke? I wouldn’t and I imagine most people wouldn’t either. </p>
<p>Unless there is something in the Russian remarks that you have not been told and do not know (such as some sort of statement of a criminal nature) I would take this all the way to the school board, and, I would get the press involved as well if you think that will help. At this point, it’s not so much about the grade as it is the principle of the thing…</p>
<p>^^LTS, I agree totally.</p>