<p>Valdez, you ain’t gonna BURNNNNNNN in the FIIIIIIIIIRES of HELLLLLLL!!! (not for this decision. at least) - so if you choose A&M, call Princeton again and summarize the financial facts that would make it a hardship - in detail. Your parents can get on the phone and state that they are frightened by the cost, and had estimated that because of factor a, b, or c the EFC would be lower. Perhaps they even have a financial circumstance that they overlooked on the FAFSA or PROFILE to relate. </p>
<p>This “parent contribution” dilemma is currently a big sword of Damocles for me, because the first acceptance among the top schools on his list is Oxford - no merit aid, no financial aid, AND uncertain currency implications over the three years. </p>
<p>Prior to applying, I was quite forthcoming with my son that finances were an issue for the most expensive possibilities, since I am a single parent and his father will not contribute. I don’t expect to get much financial aid from the non-merit schools. But I did not set arbitrary limits. I told him that we have to wait for April 1 to see what the total picture is, how much it will be, and then it becomes a matter, for both of us, of “how much do you want it, and how deep will you dig to get it?” </p>
<p>NorthStarMom, it’s funny that you mention the University of Hawaii. I had a choice to go to graduate school there and didn’t take it, passing up a life on the beach for the East Coast stress factory. How smart was that?!?!?!?!?</p>
<p>In addition, Janimom, the OP says he did an internship at Texas A&M’s financial aid office and also works in his own school’s guidance counselor’s office.</p>
<p>Among his ECs and other info are the below. He may not be wealthy (Family income allegedly is $80 k a year), he certainly has a privileged upbringing and certainly has excellent access to sophisticated info about merit scholarships, ED, etc. Schools with water polo teams and where students travel to Europe for one-month immersion experiences are schools with sophisticated guidance information.</p>
<p>EC:-Swimming (3 years/8 hrs per week/ 42 wks per year) varsity letterman 200 Yard Individual Medley
-Orchestra (4/5/36) varsity letterman second violin section leader
-Soccer (4/4/16)
-Texas French Symposium (3/2/10) won fifth overall
-Church youth group (4/2/30)
Misc. clubs: Water Polo, French Club, NHS
~200 hours of volunteer work
Summers:
-2003: toured Italy, U.K., France (spent a month speaking French in a French household)
-2004: full-time internship at Texas A&M Dept. of Student Financial Aid…
“My school is competitive public suburban; we sent three students to ivy league. One year, we sent four students to Harvard alone.”</p>
<p>As I have said many times, I do not like many aspects of ED. But the contract is quite simple and forthright. If you don’t like it and don’t like the schools that have it, don’t apply to them. There are many other options. None of my kids applied ED and some of them still had a number of nonbinding choices. </p>
<p>Chances are Texas A&M is not going to care if one of their students breaks such an agreement. It is those schools who have such agreements that care. It is Valdez’s choice where he decided he wants to go and what he has to do to go there. But he would not get any sympathy or understanding from me, or from a number of other people for making such a decision, and breaking an agreement.</p>
<p>I resent the fact that people are mixing my admission criteria w/ my fin. aid question.
-the europe trip was the “big family trip” of our lives. it wasnt an immersion program–it was a family we know whose kid studied at A&M and just happens to be my godfather. they did not charge me on hospitality. as much as it hurts you, i stayed there absolutely free.
-money is not a reason i have had a privelaged upbringing. my parents pay the taxes, i get the benifits my school has to offer. orchestra,soccer,french,swimming are all throuugh the school. again, they are absolutely free to us tax-payers, even team traveling costs.
-my school is very good (we do send kids to famous schools), but absolutely free–I’m sorry if that fact ruffles anyone’s feathers
-the internship was a great opportunity for me. they offered me the same job if i enroll at A&M.</p>
<p>has it ever occurred to you that I may be talented in some respects?</p>
<p>unfortunately, i dont see how anyy of this is relevant…so please let’s just stick to the issues at hand</p>
<p>I think Valdez should stop reading the opinions of people on this board who have no official standing, and simply call up Princeton. All he has to do is <em>ask</em> Princeton if the TAMU offer is grounds for getting out of his ED agreement. They will either say yes or no. Either way, the situation becomes much simpler.</p>
<p>Valdez: When did your concerns about attending Princeton actually begin? Were you flying after you received your ED decision letter, or were you concerned about finances the day after you were accepted? When did your concerns about your dog and girlfriend enter into the equation? After you got the offer from Texas A&M?</p>
<p>Look hard at these simple questions. They may help you to determine whether the financial aid piece is your quandry … or the distance from home is what’s really got you reconsidering your decision. The 1000 miles would not change even if Princeton was giving you a free ride.</p>
<p>“-the europe trip was the “big family trip” of our lives. it wasnt an immersion program–it was a family we know whose kid studied at A&M and just happens to be my godfather. they did not charge me on hospitality. as much as it hurts you, i stayed there absolutely free.
-money is not a reason i have had a privelaged upbringing. my parents pay the taxes, i get the benifits my school has to offer. orchestra,soccer,french,swimming are all throuugh the school. again, they are absolutely free to us tax-payers, even team traveling costs.”</p>
<p>People who are poor and struggling can not afford to do things like play water polo or go on family vacations to Europe, even if they get to stay for free.</p>
<p>In only very rare cases, do poor, struggling people get to go to public schools where 4 kids a year get accepted to Ivies and where there are water polo teams. That’s because in the US, the quality of public schools is usually determined by property taxes. The excellent public schools are in areas in which people can afford to pay high property taxes to support schools of excellent quality, the type of schools that can offer students opportunities to play on sports teams and to have music lessons for free.</p>
<p>The relevance of all of this to your initial question here is that you are not some naive student who is living a hand-to-mouth existence who somehow stumbled unknowingly into a Princeton ED admission and its consequences.</p>
<p>if $80K makes my family “poor and struggling,” then I have defied your theory, northstar. Money has nothing to do w/ it, there are certainly many poor people at my school who do just as well as the rich kids (which, yes, we have many). I think the education here is great b/c we live in a college town where like 30-40% of students’ parents are well-paid professors.</p>
<p>in reponse to twinmom’s series of questions:
-when A&M offered me their deal
-we were concerned about finances all throughout the application process, and were willing to pay 19K @ princeton vs. paying 12-15K @ A&M
-the dog/girlfriend comment was just me being melodramatic. its just a result of having everyone hate your guts.</p>
<p>Hmm let’s really examin this moral conundrum for a minute. Let us say there is a bus wreck on the Jersey Turnpike and 40 people are critically injured and the Ptown ambulance shows up first at the site of the accident and says, “We will take anybody who can afford to pay what we determine is a fair price do we have any takers here?” </p>
<p>Somebody moans, “Take me take me I have insurance!” </p>
<p>The ambulance driver says, “Well your insurance company might not cover the full cost or might decide they don’t pay our rates. Let me see how much ready cash and assets you have and then I’ll decide if I’ll take you - BUT first sign this paper here. It sayds the Ptown amulance company is only going to look at you application for transport. In return if we decide you have enough money to pay what we want to charge you then YOU are bound to take our ride and pay our fee. Oh yeah and it also has an escape clause for us if we decide any time between now and arrival at the emergency room that we want to change our mind.”</p>
<p>You might if you are legally minded wonder if there is A) a real contract there and B) there might not be some duress and C) if there might not even be a crime like maybe extortion or fraud being commited by the Ptown ambulance company. But you probably wouldn’t question the morals of the accident victim who promised anything to get on the ambulance and then changed his mind when the Rtown ambulance showed up.</p>
<p>The difference in the market knowledge of the consumer and the college in the coolege admissions and financial aid process is so profound as to render the whole thing fundamentally unfair. If it were to happen almost anywhere else we would be screaming for disclosure rules and consumer protection laws.</p>
<p>no, nsm, i view myself a learned and astute student who has been given the opportunity to study for free at a less-recognized institution and save money for graduate school instead of plunging face-first into debt upon graduation.</p>
<p>I’d like to save my parents the trouble. I have more loyalty to them than to some college. It’s so easy for me to say “screw you guys, I’m gonna use up all your money”…but thats just not me.</p>
<p>Based upon your last post, Valdez, it’s fairly clear to me that you’ve made up your mind and are just looking for validation. </p>
<p>A $76,000 Ivy League education is a bargain. As stated earlier, it wouldn’t be all that hard for you to pay it back once you become a professional. The education you’d receive and the contacts you’d make would be stellar. $76,000 sounds like a lot of money to someone your age, but in reality … it’s not. Even if Princeton was only costing you $40,000 - it still would be a lot more than free, wouldn’t it?</p>
<p>Don’t put this on your parents. You COULD pay for this education yourself. You just don’t want to. You want the best of all worlds. </p>
<p>I say, go to A&M. You’re still a kid and you made a commitment that you were not ready to honor. Everyone makes mistakes. You weren’t a drunk driver and no one lies dead because you erred in judgement. It could be worse. A lot worse.</p>
<p>I don’t think you’d be happy 1000 miles from home. And I don’t really think it bothers you that “everyone hates your guts.” (If it truly does, it shouldn’t.) No one is forcing you to post on the CC Princeton board. So get off it. It just could be that you don’t belong there anymore.</p>
<p>Admit you made a mistake by applying ED. Go to Texas and don’t look back. You’ll grow up and be successful as you are obviously an academically smart guy.</p>
<p>Someone else will be very, very happy in your Princeton spot.</p>
<p>Northstarmom, probably time to give up here, it’s not worth it. I think there is no way this is a kid who deserves to be at Princeton. As URMs ourselves, we are probably cringing more than most at seeing a kid who is being handed the world not get it. They could afford the $19K before they knew a free ride was in the offing…Honestly, I really want to see a more deserving URM get that spot at
Princeton.</p>
<p>Kirmum,
You are right in that as a URM, I find it particularly irritating when URMs like Valdez (who says he is of Mexican heritage) get stellar opportunities (including attending the public school that he has been so fortunate to attend), and then instead of feeling grateful, seem to feel entitled and/or try to scam the system in order to make out like bandits.</p>
<p>There are so many hard working families of all races who are sacrificing to send their kids to college, and whose kids through no fault of their own can’t get the kind of stellar educations in high school that opened doors for Valdez.</p>
<p>I am sorry that he bothered to post. Clearly, he’ll do what he wants. The decision is in his hands, and there’s every evidence that he has made his mind up. There is no reason for him to inform the world about his situation.</p>
<p>kirmum - as a URM you are handed a lot of things. What you make of them is of course up to you. But does anybody on these boards have any evidence that a non-URM from a middle or working class family is going to benefit from any of the alleged contacts they will make at Princeton? Let’s be honest here most of those princeton contacts are really family contacts. They people who can afford to go to Princeton ED and who have the educational qualifications for the school are the product of a hot-house environment of great public and private schools and tremendous nurturing. Those things go along with well to do families and great neighborhoods and great family contacts. Even a $75 thousand dollar burden is nothing to scoff at for a family making $80,000 a year regardless of what a synctured Princeton administrator might think.</p>
<p>Somebody show me some disagregated numbers on how fast Ivy graduates start erarning the big bucks when they don’t come from well-to-do families and are not URM’s before you tell me that a middle class kid should not think twice before putting himself in debt up to his and his families eyeballs for an Ivy education.</p>
<p>In this world the poor have their advocates, the rich have their money, and the rest of us generally get the shaft.</p>
<p>patuxent, this subject has been visited one too many times so I’ll make my answer short and sweet. The only family connections I had before heading to Harvard were the drug connections on my E. LA corner established by my older siblings. Today I am a partner at a major international law firm doing business with myriad Harvard and Yale Law School classmates.</p>
<p>Oh, and my freshman year roomate and best friend to this day, a lower middle class white girl from Brooklyn, is a senior VP at a Fortune 500 company where some of our wealthy classmates report to her.</p>
<p>You know, I have the day off so I decided not to let that absurd comment bother me. Anyone who makes that comment doesn’t know what they don’t know. Enlightment will never reach everyone.</p>
<p>This isn’t about you kirmum this is about Valdez. You presume to pass judgement on somebody else before you have walked in their shoes. </p>
<p>I am happy for you and I do not begrudge you your success. In fact I think it is great that such a thing can happen in America. But don’t presume that the opportunities that came your way at a given time and place would come somebody elses way or would come without some unwarranted cost. “Judge not lest ye be judged” - and it is pretty apparent you are touchy about anything that smacks of judgement.</p>