<p>I am really curious as to whether Princeton is comfortable with him withdrawing due to financial issue. What has Princeton said? </p>
<p>If they agree, then Princeton has removed the ethical dilemma. If financial reasons are valid when breaking ED committment, and if Valdez’ qualify, then he’s being completely kosher here. (Lord knows coming up with this kind of money is not easy-- even for families who can’t qualify for ANY financial aid.) </p>
<p>For the record I was brought up that to “OBO” (‘or better offer’) someone was a despicable act. Yet I can appreciate that this kid is actually willing to step aside from his dream school to save his family $80K. More moral outrage <em>might</em> be warranted if he’d applied ED to a less selective school and then wanted to bag them for a fluke RD acceptance at an Ivy…</p>
<p>I agree with kirmum & northstar that Valdez should have known better. He should have known merit aid was out there, whether at A&M or somewhere else, and that should have been part of the hypothetical thinking (What would I do if…?) prior to ever applying ED. You ought to be willing to pay FAFSA <em>no matter what</em> for an ED school and forgo merit aid unless some sort of bottom drops out of your financial picture, like illness, etc. </p>
<p>Also, my understanding is that one IMMEDIATELY withdraws from other schools when accepted ED. Maybe this is to prevent situations like Valdez’. Had the A&M letter come before the ED acceptance, Valdez could have withdrawn from ED at Princeton. Had he withdrawn from A&M “immediately” maybe would never have known about merit aid (though Xmas break probably prevented quick withdrawal.)</p>
<p>I lean towards the sanctity of ED rules (including that at some schools EDers can’t defer for a year, etc) and the fact that they are very clear about the absolute committment, though I think many posters have brought up excellent contradictory points about informed consent. Only P’ton knows whether Valdez fin aid situation qualifies as an out.</p>
<p>This situation is not 100% black and white. Thus it is up to Valdez, his family, and the two schools in question to sort out. VALDEZ: If P’ton is balking at letting you out, honor your committment.</p>
<p>My last comment on this. There is no question that by ED rules, his financial situation does not qualify as an out. His family was willing and able to pay the $19K when he thought Texas would be $15K. The consideration of whether he wanted his family to make the sacrifice for Princeton clearly needed to be made before the ED application was made, and clearly the family did agree they they could pay. Were this a legal case, it would be a no brainer, the contract is enforceable.</p>
<p>The real issue that this brings up is that colleges are assuming that a cross section of families understand what committment means in an era of every man for himself. This kid simply got what in his mind is a better offer and feels little remorse in taking it. His parents have to be involved in this decision, and clearly their response to the child was not one of insisting upon honor and respecting committments.</p>
<p>Princeton will have no problem letting him off the hook. Frankly, I really don’t believe they want any kid who really doesn’t want to stretch to be there. Further, we and Princeton now have insight into how this child, without substantive change, will handle life’s tough decisions. No matter how smart or able, lack of ethics will trip anyone up early in a career. Princeton really doesn’t want to lay claim to Kenneth Lay…</p>
<p>SBmom - I do not know where you are from but the federal FAFSA EFC is not weighted for cost of living. What would make you wildly wealthy in my old home town back in Ohio would put you a half step outside the door of the Sally in parts of California or some of the big east cost cities. There are many and many a middle and working class family where if they were to commit to paying the EFC for an Ivy education would be incurring a financial burden they really could not afford - and one they cannot even escape through bankruptcy. Add to that it is not an easy thing to say no to child you love for a thing so wonderful as an education and you have a situation where folks don’t always act rationally. It reminds me of the flower shop where my wife one worked,. The owner would goose the widow into buying a flower spray she really couldn’t afford with the line, “Remember it is the last thing you will ever be able to buy for him.”</p>
<p>“Further, we and Princeton now have insight into how this child, without substantive change, will handle life’s tough decisions.”</p>
<p>Really kirmun don’t you think it takes a little chutzpah. The kids decision either way is not going to cost anybody else and least of all Princeton anything. Try to accept if you can after Harvard and Yale that in this diverse world there are diverse values out there.</p>
<p>Values? Honesty and committment or lack thereof is how I read it. And by all means as a CA resident I well understand how tough meeting the EFC is for many, and some are naive, but a kid who worked in a financial aid office? Please! He spelled it all out. They knew what the EFC was and were prepared to pay before the better deal came along. How clear can this be?</p>
<p>There are many who are smart, educated, able…in the end, in my experience, integrity is what seperates those that truly achieve and earn respect in this world.</p>
<p>garland - I don’t recall saying it is better to be poor. I’ve tried poor and I’ve tried middle class and I’d like to try rich so long as it didn’t require any more effort on my part - know any rich widows? From my experience poor kinda sucks, but that doesn’t make what I said any less true. What’s your point?</p>
<p>For all the ethicists on this thread, especially those who feel so righteous in their lack of sympathy:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Perhaps you could recognize that if Valdez did not have principles and was not concerned with ethics, he would not consider this a “dilemma.”</p></li>
<li><p>Stanford (and others) have eliminated ED in favor of EA-single choice, expressly so that families can have time and full information to evaluate all financial packages. What are the “ethics” of the colleges who have chosen not to go this route?</p></li>
<li><p>Whether a school has or has not adequately met an ED applicant’s financial need can NOT be decided by the school. Families can determined their EFC in advance.
But they do not know how this need will be met. How much debt will be involved?<br>
Furthermore, CSS/FAFSA are not infallible, or even equitable, measures of need. A few things that come immediately to mind which they do not consider:
whether parents are facing the cost of supporting their own parents in assisted living,…
retirement savings: two families with similar incomes and “countable” assets are condiered the same even though one may not have been able to start retirement savings and the other may have 6-figure or even 7-figure retirement accounts (not considered in EFC)
to what extent a family has to worry that their employer’s future is uncertain - in today’s world, corporate mergers, downsizing etc. may loom large in a family’s worries…</p></li>
</ol>
<p>In the end, I cannot agree more with patuxent: “But I can tell you there is no question of honor or morals here. Do what you decide is best for you and yours in the long run.”
All of those who are preaching are simply allowing themselves to feel superior morally and that is really not for any of us to do. Yes, ethics are important and you want to look yourself in the mirror. And I, for one, trust that ethical concerns are a part of your equation. You do no need me or anyone to lecture you on that.</p>
<p>Honesty and integrity are great values but they mat be situational - just ask Bill Clinton if you don’t believe me. Would you lie to a terrorist? Would you say that an undercover cop was unethical if he posed as a drug buyer? Is an unmarked police car dishonest? The ED situation itself is fundamentally an unfair situation in which to put a 17 or 18 year old kid and his family. It is no different than a cigarette company using Joe Camel to pitch cancer sticks to kids or Ronal MacDonald to pitch salt, sugar and, refined carbs to fat kids. The Ivy’s ought to drop the practice and the federal government ought to regulate.</p>
<p>Really jmmom, he applied to Princeton, not Stanford. Surely someone this intelligent knew the difference between EA and ED. One may believe that ED is not ideal, and they indeed have the preogative not to utilize it. But as a parent, how can you possibly make the arguement you have? How can you possibly make the arguement that it is not unethical to break a contractural committment? They make it very clear that you need to be able to live with paying the EFC. There is no mystery!!! What are we teaching children here?</p>
<p>dstark, if I’m Princeton, I’m encouraging him to go to Texas or any school of his choice and thanking him for the heads up. What are you people thinking?</p>
<p>What gives anyone on this thread the right to determine whether Valdez, or anyone, DESERVES to go to Princeton?</p>
<p>There are many irrelevant conversations going on here about who is more privileged than who else. These “chips on the shoulder” should not be a part of this discussion and are not interesting.</p>
<p>Patuxent, nobody had a gun to his head to apply ED. I hardly think it’s up there with coercing kids to smoke!</p>
<p>If I had to vote I’d vote with kirmum & northstar. Realistically, ED kids with no financial issue might still have regrets, changes of heart, new information-- and they are expected to honor the committment.</p>
<p>If ED confers an edge it is because ED presupposes a committment. You give up something (free choice & future options) to get something (edge.)</p>
<p>Nobody needs to make that deal unless they choose to do so.</p>
<p>Who knows what he told Princeton or didn’t? And yes, in my estimation, there is a serious character flaw in rvidence. OK at this age, there is time to learn, but there are adults here who are suggesting breaking a contract is not unethical. If we collectively are his role models, I’m concerned for him.</p>
- know any rich widows? From my experience poor kinda sucks, but that doesn’t make what I said any less true. What’s your point?</p>