<p>wish it ws april - a student can apply RD or EA to other schools while applying ED. If accepted to the ED school, the student is supposed to withdraw the other applications.</p>
<p><em>Sigh</em>
The thing with ED, though, is that it doesn’t allow for a “plan B.” It’s something you can only do if you a) have no worries about financial aid, or b) are willing to take out loans to finance your education.
I don’t like it either, but there it stands.</p>
<p>It seems as if you’ve definitely made up your mind, so good luck.</p>
<p>V, did you ever discuss here why you didn’t simply apply RD to Princeton as you should have, given your situation? (Sorry, with 602 posts, I just don’t remember the details of every one of them…)</p>
<p>It seems you think you did a perfectly OK thing, and that you’re likely to take the TAMU offer, so go for it. I think you gamed the system and sound almost smug about it, and I don’t much respect your methods, but I am not among those whose opinion should matter to you, I am just an observer and stranger with her own set of knowledge and beliefs. (“plan B” indeed. As Kebree says, there <em>is</em> no “plan B” with ED, and I can’t believe you did not know that beforehand.)</p>
<p>Thank you jmmom - somebody sees what I am saying here.</p>
<p>As for the EFC and its fairness - it is not. The number calculated by FAFSA and the government does not take into consideration differences in cost of living across the country or a number of assets. The institutional number calculated by CSS in some ways and worse in others. I don’t want to get into the nitty gritty of the details but if Princeton is telling you you will not have to take out loans then Princeton is pumping sunshine where it wasn’t meant to go. Any middle class family whose assets are tied up in stuff they cannot sell or cannot sell without taking a beating is going to have to take out loans to meet the $20,000 or $25,000 a year that will be their Expected Family Contribution. God bless you if you have enough liquidity in a bear stock or real estate market to do that. In my personal case I am a LOT more liquid than the average guy with my family income (not impressive where I live but a kings ransom in some parts of the country). But not many people would choose to be in my overall financial situation at this point of their lives - given their druthers.</p>
<p>When schools do not compete everyone suffers including the schools in the long run. The government broke up AT&T and that industry was forever changed and the result was new products services and better prices not to mention healthier companies. When the airlines were deregulated everybody benefitted except the stultified management of the old cartel companies like Pan Am, TWA, United, Northwestern. They were not used to competing and new airlines came in and cleaned their clocks.</p>
<p>If Harvard, Princeton, Yale and the other elite schools really are the best of the best then they shouldn’t be afraid to compete with each other and with everyone else for the best students out there. A pick one policy or expect to get in nowhere and btw we will set the price - who does that benefit? Not the student. Not the public. And not the pursuit of excellence and knowledge.</p>
<p>I must say that some of the harsh comments on this bbs by urms and others who have attended Ivies makes me wonder about some of the the effect on kids from non- elite backgrounds associating with and identifying so much with those born to privilege and their traditional institutions… This issue is not that simple; nor, though it is a different issue, is it that simple that this Valdez kid might not be just as well off for non-financial reasons going to A & M, where he apparently will be given the royal treatment.</p>
<p>mootmom, and Kebree, you may be wrong.
<a href=“http://www.studentaffairs.columbia.edu/admissions/faq/applying.php#9[/url]”>http://www.studentaffairs.columbia.edu/admissions/faq/applying.php#9</a></p>
<p>From the Columbia web site,
Early decision is a BINDING AGREEMENT. If you are offered admission under the Early Decision Program (and you are provided with a financial aid package that enables you to attend), you must withdraw any applications to other colleges that you may have already initiated, and you are not allowed to apply to any other colleges. You are not expected to withdraw any applications until you receive a financial aid package that enables you to attend Columbia. </p>
<p>Now this is the final sentence and the key part.</p>
<p>The decision whether or not you receive a financial package that enables you to attend Columbia is one made by you and your family.</p>
<p>This is what I have been trying to stress throughout this thread. It should not be the school’s decision about finances, it should be the family’s decision.
Columbia sees it my way.</p>
<p>For those people objecting to Valdez’s morals and ethics, do you know for a fact that Princeton’s ED is different than Columbia’s? Is any school’s different from Columbia’s?</p>
<p>For those attacking Valdez, the onus is on you. Show the people reading this thread where Princeton’s differs than Columbia on ED and makes you accept it whether you feel you can handle it financially or not?</p>
<p>Princeton gives phenomenal aid; Columbia doesn’t.</p>
<p>Princeton has an aid estimator on their website that estimated V. would pay $15k. His aid package that came in Dec. called for $19k. He was apparently okay with it until the A&M offer came along:
So it wasn’t that he couldn’t afford it—he just got a better aid deal and had [understandable] second thoughts. The issue at stake is: “would be ethical for V. to renege on ED for a better deal?”</p>
<p>Here is the Princeton agreement:
Also from the statement:
</p>
<p>That’s right Kebree, there is no mention anywhere that you have to matriculate to Princeton if you or your family decide you can’t afford it.</p>
<p>That’s true-----if he can’t afford it, then he shouldn’t matriculate and would be completely right in taking the A&M deal. But because the estimator was close and because he was planning to confirm ED (in other words, he could afford it), it becomes an issue.</p>
<p>Again, if he’s only just realized that his going to Princeton will be a huge burden on his family (that’s if he’s not willing to take out loans), then he probably should just call Princeton and withdraw.</p>
<p>On the subject of EFC not taking location into account, I can not think of one location in the US that is above average in expense where the value of homes has not rapidly increased. The biggest question, in CA anyway, seems to be whether parents are willing to take a home equity loan to meet their EFC. Do you happen to be a Californian dstark? Heck, it was painful to realize this would be necessary as my second child enters college. However, I’m only 46 and have many years to replace that equity to be comfortable for retirement. Again, priorities. And I do contribute to my parents’ upkeep. And that of a niece and nephew. Each to his own! Let your kids go to a school where they can get merit money if that’s what you choose. But this “unfair” bandwagon is clearly seen by only a few who clearly must have other priorities.</p>
<p>From Princeton’s Website:</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.princeton.edu/pr/admissions/u/appl/[/url]”>http://www.princeton.edu/pr/admissions/u/appl/</a></p>
<p>Princeton offers an Early Decision Program and a Regular Decision Program. </p>
<p>Early Decision</p>
<p>If you have determined that Princeton is first among your college choices, you may submit your application by November 1 and receive a decision from us by mid-December. Applying Early Decision constitutes a commitment to attend Princeton if you are offered admission.</p>
<p>Early Decision application outcomes include: admission to Princeton; deferral of the final decision until after another review in the Regular Decision process; and refusal of admission.</p>
<p>Early Decision applicants must have taken the SAT I and SAT II tests no later than the November 6, 2004 test date.</p>
<p>Early Decision applicants may not apply under Early Decision or Early Action plans at any other college or university (but may submit Regular Decision applications elsewhere).</p>
<p>Early Decision applicants who apply for financial aid and are offered admission in December will be notified of any aid awards at the same time.</p>
<p>From Princetons application for admission regarding Early Decision</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.princeton.edu/pr/admissions/u/appl/pdf/puappl.pdf[/url]”>http://www.princeton.edu/pr/admissions/u/appl/pdf/puappl.pdf</a></p>
<p>Early Decision Statement</p>
<p>The Early Decision program is for those candidates who have already decided that Princeton is the college they would most like to attend and who will definitely enroll at Princeton if offered admission as an Early Decision candidate.</p>
<p>Under the Early Decision program, it is a violation of the spirit and the letter of the agreement for an applicant to be an Early Decision or Early Action candidate at two institutions at the same time. Students who apply to Princeton under the Early Decision program may initiate applications to other institutions, provided that none of the other applications are made under Early Decision or Early Action.
The obligation explicit in the Early Decision program, as described here, is a commitment on the part of the candidate to withdraw any other applications and to initiate no new applications if accepted under our Early Decision program.</p>
<p>We will notify Early Decision candidates of our action on their applications in early December. Those applications that are deferred under the Early Decision program will be reviewed and evaluated again among the Regular Decision applicant pool. Those candidates whose applications are deferred to Regular Decision and who subsequently are offered admission in April are not then bound, of course, by any commitment to enroll at Princeton. The commitment to enroll applies only to those Early Decision candidates who are offered admission in early December.</p>
<p>Early Decision candidates who are offered admission in early December and who are also .financial aid applicants will be notified of any financial aid awards at the same time. Please see the instructions for applying for financial aid as an Early Decision candidate in the Undergraduate Financial Aid Information and Application Instructions booklet.</p>
<p>I have read the instructions above concerning Early Decision. Princeton is my first choice and I wish to be considered as an Early Decision candidate. If I am offered admission under the Early Decision program, I will matriculate at Princeton in September 2005. I understand that if accepted under Early Decision, I must withdraw all applications (if any) to other institutions and make no new ones. I further acknowledge that it is a violation of the agreement for me to be an Early Decision or Early Action candidate at any other college or university.</p>
<p>Applicants signature Date</p>
<p>It seems to be pretty straight forward</p>
<p>Maybe the new SAT should include a section on understanding ED. You will need a 700 plus on the section to be able to qpply ED to any school.</p>
<p>“If one school says your EFC is $15,000 and another is $19,000, I don’t know how the school that says $19,000 can say they met all your needs”</p>
<p>dstark - You set sybbie up with that one. Remind me never to let you cross examin me.</p>
<p>No school is going to meer “your need” what you think you should pay.They are going to meet your DEMONSTRATED need ( what they believe you can afford to pay) based on the information you provided. All things regarding EFC are not created equal becaue each school set up their own financial aid budget and have different resources from which to draw upon.</p>
<p>Some schools only take into consideration the income and assets of the students parents, others take in to consideration of the income and assets of step parents . As I stated before I had 7 different EFC’s and none of them were the same as what was on the FAFSA.</p>
<p>DudeDiligence - it is called enrollment management and the Deans of Admission or the VP for Enrollment Management at a university near you, greaqt or small, attends conferences and hire consultants all the time ti try to determine the best way to maximize what s/he gets in an entering class through leveraging the monies he has available for discounting. Some use it to fill the dorms, others to maximize the total take, and yet others to shape diversity or the qualifications of their incomming class. It is not even a secret. Just di a Google search on erollment management.</p>
<p>Thanks Mom of 2 - but from the agreements being quoted here, it appears that some schools do not permit concurrent ED and EA applications. So once again, it comes down to knowing the rules for your situation and whether or not one chooses to play by them.</p>
<p>We didn’t do ED - S wasn’t sure enough and we were hoping for merit money. After our experience with older D, I vowed to have S do ED. But when it came down to it, it just didn’t suit our circumstances. With all the stress this year, I am glad not to have this dilemma as well. But the debate is interesting!</p>
<p>You are right. I noticed the wording of the Princeton ED agreement someone posted here. For the school my daughter applied to ED, it was ok to apply elsewhere EA. It is very complicated.</p>
<p>wish - as you will find, when you apply ED you are prohibited to apply ED anywhere else or Single-Choice-Early Action anywhere else, but you can apply RD, EA or rolling anywhere you want so long as none of those are binding. You must check each school’s early policy and yes, your GC would not send out two school reports, recs, etc. to two ED or SCEA schools.</p>
<p>"On the subject of EFC not taking location into account, I can not think of one location in the US that is above average in expense where the value of homes has not rapidly increased. "</p>
<p>kirmum - that is true but guess what not everybody owns a home. Not even every middle class or upper middle class family owns a home. I don’t though I do live in an area where home prices have been exploding. Besides if you do own a home that might well only serve to make you land poor not better able to pay your EFC. A second mortgage sounds good but guess what you might be facing the prospect of having your job outsource to India. You are from California so I guess you know what is going on in Silicon Valley. You take out a second mortgage to pay your EFC, loose your job when it migrates to Bangalore, have the housing bubble burst, and then see how you feel about the fairness of the FAFSA EFC.</p>
<p>jmmom - I understood the rules to be as you have just explained. But, in the case of Princeton, the rules seem to be different, as the quoted information above states that an ED applicant cannot apply EA anywhere else.</p>