Did God answer your college prayers?

[Consolation]

<p>

Is Satan winning out? Are atheists “automatic admits?” Do they get better aid?

</p>

<p>Love your implication that atheists are evil. Nice. FYI, atheists generally don’t believe in the existence of “Satan” either, so “Satan” would have no reason to favor them.</p>

<p>This reminds me of someone I met whose kid was informed by a schoolmate that UUs are “devil-worshippers.” He retorted, “We don’t believe in the devil, much less worship him.[or her]”</p>

[geek_mom]

<p>

@pipmom

There are those, such as myself, who believe that God has a plan- prayer is a request to reveal it-

Yes, exactly. In our household, we prayed not for a specific admissions outcome, but for guidance and clarity. I believe that request was granted many times before and during the application season.</p>

<p>If I were to hazard a long response to the OP’s question, I would echo a great deal of what jonri has already written. Just one anecdote regarding terrible experiences… a while back, one of my son’s schoolmates told us of his experience with a rare form of cancer in high school. The young man thanks God every day for that experience, although at the time his most fervent wish was to die. He learned profound things from losing everything he had thought was important.</p>

[phantompong]

<p>I wasn’t going to reply to this thread, because “to defend something is always to discredit it” (Kierkegaard). But after reading jonri’s response I thought I’d add my own views. Grab a coffee - this is going to be long.</p>

<p>My religious views are… not exactly traditional, perhaps; I don’t know if I’d call myself a radical, either.</p>

<p>

God did give us free will. Much of the evil in the world comes from our exercise of it. In most cases, God does not intervene. He allows us to exercise our free will. We often do so to do harm to ourselves or others. This is evident not only in obvious cases–a parent abuses his child–but in others less obvious–we pollute a stream over lots of years and a woman who drinks from the polluted water gives birth to a child with a birth defect. Or we pollute the atmosphere and 20% of the South Bronx get asthma. In most cases, God doesn’t intervene to stop the evil people cause by exercising their free will. He lets our acts cause the natural results.

</p>

<p>This for me comes first. If God did not respect free will, we’d all be believers. Man fell precisely because he exercised his right to disobey God. It’s easy to say “how can there be a God when there is so much evil in the world”, but my personal answer is that God respects the free will of human beings to do as they desire, and that the evil does not come from God.</p>

<p>Why is free will so important? Because love is nothing without free will.</p>

<p>

Our values are not necessarily God’s. For example, if you believe that there is another, potentially better life in the next world, then Death is not an evil. God may not feel the same about a death from cancer or war as we do. Moreover, sometimes such events cause people to turn to God. (There’s an old saying that there are no atheists in fox holes.) So, it’s at least possible than these events don’t rank up there with things He needs to deal with before He considers college admissions.

</p>

<p>Kierkegaard has something to say about this in The Sickness Unto Death, but it’s not an easy text to make sense of. He suggests that one can transcend a fear of death if one finds something even more worth fearing than physical death, and that something is spiritual death: separation from God.</p>

<p>As for the idea that our values are not necessarily God’s, I don’t agree. The New Testament constantly talks about believers being “in Christ Jesus” and being in the Spirit. Hebrews 8:10 says, “I will put my laws in their mind and write them on their hearts”. Look at the entire chapter of Romans 8, particularly Romans 8:5 - “… those who are according to the Spirit and are controlled by the desires of the Spirit set their minds on and seek those things which gratify the [Holy] Spirit.” In fact, in the Nueva Versi</p>

[Chedva]

<p>

Here’s a thought - most people try and help God along, when the last thing He needs is our help. I believe what hinders most prayers is the fact that right after praying, the person thinks to himself, “hmm, I better get to work in case God doesn’t show up.” There’s no point trying to earn a miracle - if you’ve earned it, it isn’t a miracle, and God doesn’t get glorified, which misses the point of prayer anyway - “so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.”

Hmmm. . . but isn’t there also a saying that “God helps those who help themselves”? Or are you saying that people should pray and then do nothing and wait for the prayer to be answered?</p>

<p>As a Jew, I have a different perspective on this point (and not just the final sentence). Judaism believes that people and God are partners in completing the work of creation that God began. This belief is called tikkun olam - finishing (or repairing) the world. A prayer said at the beginning of every meal at which there is bread served goes, “Blessed art Thou, oh Lord our God, Ruler of the Universe, who brings forth bread from the earth.” But that prayer’s not totally true. Without doubt, God could easily bring bread from the earth, but God doesn’t; God brings wheat or grain up from the earth. It takes people to harvest it, clean it, process it, grind it, etc. and turn it into bread. People cannot stand still and wait for God to bring the bread to them.</p>

<p>There’s a story about a righteous man who goes into the forest and prays, “Dear God, I’ve followed all your commandments, I’ve prayed to you as required, I’ve given to charity, I’ve helped my fellow man. Now I’ve fallen on hard times and I have one request of you. Please let me win the lottery.” A booming voice from Heaven comes down and says, “Very well. You will win the lottery.”</p>

<p>Thirty years later, the same man walks into the forest and prays, “Dear God, thirty years ago you promised that I would win the lottery. I kept following your commandments, I kept living a righteous life, and nothing! Why did you let me down?”</p>

<p>The Heavens open again and the booming voice says, “Idiot! Couldn’t you at least have bought a ticket???”</p>

[tokenadult]

<p>

isn’t there also a saying that “God helps those who help themselves”?

</p>

<p>There is such a saying. It is definitely not anywhere in the Bible. I think it was published in Ben Franklin’s Poor Richard’s Almanac, but it may be a proverbial English saying that predated Franklin.</p>

[garland]

<p>

This for me comes first. If God did not respect free will, we’d all be believers. Man fell precisely because he exercised his right to disobey God. It’s easy to say “how can there be a God when there is so much evil in the world”, but my personal answer is that God respects the free will of human beings to do as they desire, and that the evil does not come from God.</p>

<p>Why is free will so important? Because love is nothing without free will.

</p>

<p>This I agree with. I do not think that God is directing our movements, or that of the world. He/she created a beautiful, giving world and gave us the abilities to keep it that way and live fulfilling lives within it. Accepting God means to me accepting the importance of living a life where actions are guided by making that life possible for everyone. That is where Heaven lies. We haven’t achieved it yet, but prayer to me means direction toward choices which make that world possible, and knowledge that the guiding force is love.</p>

<p>I absolutely don’t agree with the concept of a God who gives things, results, or material changes in the world. That would be too depressing to accept, and negate any meaning in life, for me.</p>

[zoosermom]

<p>I believe that generally God doesn’t direct the daily business of life, but it is our responsibility to conduct ourselves in a way that is pleasing to Him. With that as the criteria, some decisions will be more clear and oftentimes we will do the right thing. I do, however, believe that every once in a while divine intervention actually does occur. Something happened to me in one of the darkest hours of my life that resolved my situation in a way that was so freakishly weird and unknowable to me that it couldn’t have been anything else. Particularly since the resolution was caused by the presence of Cardinal John O’Connor (I’m not Catholic). If that wasn’t a message, He would have needed FedEx to get through to me. I generally pray only for wisdom, patience and the strength to do what is pleasing to God and in keeping with my own values. I make it my life’s mission to give thanks for something every day. Particularly a home with three healthy children sleeping in it. If I have that, there is really nothing else I can’t do without.</p>

[Booklady]

<p>Amen, zm. A beautiful post.</p>

[phantompong]

<p>

Hmmm. . . but isn’t there also a saying that “God helps those who help themselves”? Or are you saying that people should pray and then do nothing and wait for the prayer to be answered?

</p>

<p>As tokenadult mentioned, that saying is not in the Bible. I’m not saying that people should “do nothing”, either - but I am saying that whatever we do, it must not be out of the presumption that we can help ourselves, because we can’t. That’s what I believe, anyway.</p>

<p>It’s important to note that miracles didn’t happen when man “did nothing”, but rather when man surrendered power to God instead of relying on themselves. God’s instructions in the Bible are all simple and yet difficult - simple to do, but difficult to do in faith. It’s easy to “lift up your staff”, but to “lift up your staff, and stretch out your hand over the sea and divide it” is a whole different matter entirely. It requires a complete abandonment of your own power and a trust in God’s power.</p>

<p>So I do go on and do whatever I feel prompted to do - but I make sure to acknowledge that I cannot do anything in and of myself. If what I do leads to a breakthrough, I see it as God’s hand at work, even if non-believers prefer some other causative relationship.</p>

<p>This is in the Bible:

@2 Cor 12:9-10

And He said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in needs, in persecutions, in distresses, for Christ’s sake. For when I am weak, then I am strong.

</p>

<p>

I absolutely don’t agree with the concept of a God who gives things, results, or material changes in the world. That would be too depressing to accept, and negate any meaning in life, for me.

</p>

<p>As far as I’m concerned, God gave redemption to anyone who cares to accept it from him, and if I’m willing to accept the one gift that I could never earn, why be guilty about accepting the rest? It’s to God’s credit, not mine.</p>

[garland]

<p>It’s not a matter of guilt, for me. It’s a matter of meaningfulness. If things in the world are pre-planned, then there’s no meaning. For the very reason I believe in God, I believe he builds us to interact with the world freely, as it interacts back, and through our actions and strengths, make it more what mirrors his ideal.</p>

[sunnyflorida]

<p>

Many people pray not for a specific outcome, but for the strength to deal with whatever the outcome may be. Then they thank God for getting the outcome they wanted, or for giving them the strength to deal with a different outcome.

</p>

<p>

There are those, such as myself, who believe that God has a plan- prayer is a request to reveal it- for example- praying for a college acceptance, then acceptance comes- means my and God’s plan are in accord. If acceptance doesn’t come, then I accept that such an outcome was not part of God’s plan for me.

</p>

<p>This is me, too. I pray for the strength to deal with outcomes, and I pray for God reveal his plan. In life or death situations I might plead for intervention. When something positive happens and I thank God, or think out loud and say “Thank God!” I am not of the belief that he just intervened. I am thinking that I was glad it was earned–often through hard work and good deeds, as part of his plan.</p>

[phantompong]

<p>

It’s not a matter of guilt, for me. It’s a matter of meaningfulness. If things in the world are pre-planned, then there’s no meaning. For the very reason I believe in God, I believe he builds us to interact with the world freely, as it interacts back, and through our actions and strengths, make it more what mirrors his ideal.

</p>

<p>This I agree with, with the express qualification that “our strength” = Jesus.</p>

[Hindoo]

<p>Ever the wit, DAD. :)</p>

[Chedva]

<p>phantompong, so where does that leave me, who believes in God but rejects Jesus as Messiah?</p>

[Hindoo]

<p>Excellent question, Chedva.</p>

[07DAD]

<p>

so where does that leave me, who believes in God but rejects Jesus as Messiah?

</p>

<p>Having read literally hundreds of posts by Hindoo and Chedva, I can confirm that having not accepted Jesus as Messiah has NOT kept either of them from being STRONG. I’d want Hindoo on my team every time [not to slight Chedva, but I just don’t know her as well]. And, I’d not want to get between Hindoo and what she thinks is best for her two fabulous daughters.</p>

[Hindoo]

<p>Yahooooooooo! Thanks for the props, dawg! Yeah, I know. I watch waaaaaay too much American Idol for my own good. In between reading Nietzsche and Sartre. :)</p>

[07DAD]

<p>

In between reading Nietzsche and Sartre

</p>

<p>I’m bogged down in reading the instruction manual for my wife’s ipod. No wonder you are so STRONG.</p>

[Hindoo]

<p>Pffffffffffft. I’m actually immersing myself in the middle ages right now. Whenever I start gettin’ down on the 21st century, nothing like a dose of Barbara Tuchman or William Manchester to remind me that there have been worse times in which to live. Much worse. :)</p>

[2by2]

<p>I hung my kids on God’s’ hook when they were born- I knew I’d screw them up if it was all left to me. So- in the college process- they were successful- but God’s job started way before then and doesn’t stop with college admissions, it’s a day in and day out thing. He did answer my prayer that they would not be conformed to “the system” and that they would be whoever and whatever they could or wanted or were meant to be.</p>