<p>curmudgeon,</p>
<p>I have a friend whose son had a $40K+ EFC who was offered 10K in “merit aid” (normally unheard of) from a D3 LAC that wanted him for a team.</p>
<p>Thanks SBmom. I think that I would have goofed up way worse than the OP. If the OP is having these feelings about Colgate to Dartmouth or Williams, how bad would I have felt next year if the choices D had were several rungs down because we left out completely the Colgate rung based on the mistaken belief that our EFC made attendance virtually impossible so, why not just shoot for top 10 and settle for number 50 with oodles of merit bucks ? Jeez, I’m so glad I have you folks to catch my blunders before they happen. </p>
<p>P.S. Mea culpa. I have this suspicion y’all told me all of this when I posted D’s last list (actually I know you did) , but that I wouldn’t listen because all I could see were $ I didn’t have and didn’t expect to get in aid because of our expected EFC. I apologize. Sometimes we don’t know what we don’t know.</p>
<p>The differences among the top 25 or so LACs and Uni.s gets smaller and smaller all the time, and the admissions officers at Williams and elsewhere are very open about telling us why. Each year, according to their own director of admissions, Williams rejects a full class of applicants every bit as academically talented as those they accept. Not LESS talented, or ALMOST as talented, but AS talented. In fact, as we all know, because they have to shoehorn 380 athletes into their 900 male attendees, they have to accept LOTS of folks LESS talented academically than those they reject. The Director of Admissions at Williams is quoted as saying that he could throw the applications they receive down a flight of stairs, accept those whose folders landed on the top 3, and end up with a class as academically talented as the one they finally got.</p>
<p>The same holds true, but to a much greater extent at HYP etc. These students are going elsewhere. Guess where the Williams rejects, those AS talented as those they accept, are going? Try Colgate, Middlebury, Bowdoin, Hamilton, etc.</p>
<p>For us, it didn’t make much difference, as our EFC was low enough that we were going to do fine in the financial aid Olympics wherever my d. decided to go. We considered it ALL merit aid - she was “selling her services” and they were bidding for the privilege. (Whether the differences, which were major at “need-blind” 100% of need schools reflected her “merit” is for someone else to figure out.)</p>
<p>But I certainly think it a reasonable strategy (among many) for a top applicant with some (but not overwhelming) need to make a list of top schools that offer merit aid. (As you know, I believe they all do - and prove it every April.)</p>
<p>Not having any loans at the end of four years can make up for an awful lot of “academic deficiencies” at the Colgates of the world,. if you can find any.</p>
<p>
Huh. I was led to believe my professors at law school had a patent on that grading technique. Maybe it ran out.</p>
<p>Dadof B&G</p>
<p>Hi-you’ve convinced me to quit lurking and ask how does your daughter feel about her choices? Our oldest D is in college (and by the way, she really liked Colgate, but didn’t apply) by choice at her ‘safest’ safety. The only thing that bothered her about her decision was the reaction of the adults in the family! Does she know your feelings? Like others have said, you always wonder about the ‘what ifs’ but I do think that the parents are more likely to do the agonizing. Maybe we all need more to do. Our kid told us that she was going to move on-with or without us. She was very happy with her application choices and has no regrets about her college decision. She just makes her choice and looks ahead to the next challenge. She just got done doing it all over again-picking a college for study abroad. </p>
<p>Anyway, congratulations on great options! Have faith that she will make a decison that’s good for her and not many months down the road, all of the drama will be just a distant memory. (Until the next one revives the post-traumatic stress syndrome!)</p>
<p>Dad of B&G - as previous posters implied, you are slicing things a bit too thinly here. Are Bowdoin and Middlebury, and Carleton in a narrow selectivity band between Williams and Colgate? Sure. . .but they are close enough so there is no way of telling if your D would have been waitlisted or accepted at those schools. No way. Colgate has a superb faculty, and your D has a very nice deal there. I’d sign on the dotted line ASAP, even if she got into Dartmouth.</p>
<p>Thanks for all of the comments. There were invariably thoughtful and kind.
Mini, your comments struck me as particulary practical. My D is hardly crushed by the waitlisting at Williams, and as I focus a bit, I think Colgate is going to hard to beat. My D actually prefers Hamilton, for a peculiar reason that makes no real sense to me, but they’re financial offer was not as generous. By the way, MotherofTwo, Hamilton also provides a “research/travel” stipend. I think these stipends are great marketing tools. For the minimal cost to the school, the student feels special and gets a “bye” from working at least one summer.</p>
<p>Again, thanks for everyone’s thoughts.</p>
<p>Yikes! I said “they’re” instead “their” ! Where’s the grammer check on this site?!</p>
<p>great news from colgate- its a terrific school. my S is a jr. and seriously wants to go. we visited and found it beautiful. the mem schol. for your D makes it sweeter! i can only aspire to it for my S. congrats to your D.</p>
<p>Dad of B&G,
This thread has been rattling around inside my head a bit more… </p>
<p>I absolutely agree with Mini about using the opportunity $$ from merit aid to do some other fun, educational things during summers etc…
I did spend some time talking up the Coast Guard Academy to my son when he was a junior…and went so far as to tell him we would give him a car, and a down payment for a home if he was accepted and attended school there… in an attempt to “quantify” his choices… it is very hard for a kid to understand what $40K is… when they have led a reasonably comfortable life without a lot of work effort from them. He chose not to pursue the Coast Guard, but he did consider it carefully. </p>
<p>I also had another “epihany” about your angst…which was just the number of applications your daughter submitted. Only 7 did not leave her much room for more matches… I tend to think of reach, match and safety in terms of what percentages are accepted, not if our kids are a reach, match or safety…it is all about the numbers… and slots and how those slots are allocated… some by race, some by race by geography, some by special skill, some just cause they struck a chord with the reader that put them into the accept pile when done. My son did 10 apps, 5 acceptances, 1 rejection and 4 waitlists. I was hoping and praying for 3 solid choices and he got 5 so, life was good last year. The kids that rack up lots of choices, spend an inordinate amount of time preparing apps and frankly, I think that distorts senior year and lessens the learning, the fun, the time to just live. After all, they can only attend ONE!</p>
<p>More specifically, my very good friend has a son graduating from Colgate this spring, he has had a great time, enjoyed all his classes except MicroEconomics (a statement about him, not the class/professor) and did a semester abroad in Ireland… was part of their acapella group, the Colgate 13 which practices daily and travels around the country in a stretch SUV performing at alumni events and high schools etc. We saw them last thursday evening and it was a great time. And all the guys were a pleasure to meet and observe their delight in their 4 yr experience. </p>
<p>Best wishes for your daughter’s future!</p>
<p>In addition to Colgate, Hamilton, and (formerly) Stanford offering the travel/research grants, my nephew (also a h.s. senior this year) was offered a $4000 one at Allegheny College in Pennsylvania. He is still deciding between Allegheny and a few other schools.</p>
<p>Maineparent - You know, it’s funny about the safety, match, reach thing. As soon as D was accepted to her first match, the gut reaction was “gee, why did I waste 2 applications on those safties?”, but of course until then, D was very thankful to have them. I suppose the same could be said for getting into a reach. It’s easy to say one should only apply to a safety if you would be happy to go there, but in reality, for a kid with high expectations, those safeties aren’t so easy to find.</p>
<p>I’m really glad to hear of so many good experiences at Colgate. I know many of these schools have “party” reputations. While my D likes to have a good time, she’s not much of a drinker. I’m hopeful she’ll find her own crowd, however.</p>
<p>By the way, I know Colgate has female and co-ed a capella groups, too. My D (a low alto) would be very excited to perform in one.</p>
<p>DadofB&G-
Send your daughter to Hamilton; that way I will feel better about my daughter attending!! I also have had thoughts of “Is she attending the right/best school for her?” My daughter fell in love with Hamilton, applied ED, accepted and has never looked back. I on the other hand worry too much. I know she will be fine, but I have to wonder if she made the right choice.</p>
<p>I know I will rest easy once she is in school for a few weeks and I receive the happy phone calls. Yes, I am being an optimist that I will not receive the crying phone calls that tend to take place with Freshman girls.</p>
<p>DadofB&G- One thing WildChild liked about Colgate was the variety of living options for a school that size. There is university housing that is more like apartments and townhouses-right at the foot of campus. There are some new apartments being built. Even the dorms had a lot of variety. There is a GREAT sushi restaurant in Hamilton (but expensive). The owner told S he could come wash dishes and get free sushi. The coach with whom we met has been there 15 years, which says something. He came from Dartmouth. He is very familiar with Williams, and assumed S would be looking at Williams because of his academics and his sport. He did not bad mouth Williams at all, but told us that he believes Colgate offers every bit as much and, in his opinion, has a better community “feel”.</p>
<p>DadofB&G,
If your daughter prefers Hamilton, it may be worth it see if Hamilton will improve their aid offer to match Colgate’s or whichever is the best offer.(There are others too, right?) They may. Wait til you have all the decisions.
When all of the decisions are in and you have all offers and choices on the table, then take stock. You said you can afford all of these, so to me the most important factor remains what is best for her, academically, where she is comfortable and so on. Colgate or Hamilton, and isn’t URochester one of the choices as well? If she prefers more urban, a bit bigger, if she is pre-med or into music, I certainly would consider that too. And the state school, are there honors opportunities there? </p>
<p>Remember that these schools were carefully chosen initially for reasons, so when you have all of the admissions offers on the table, go through all of the reasons again and maybe even re-visit if you can, especially if your D didn’t spend a lot of time on campus initially. If she can do overnights if deciding between two or three, sit in on classes, hang out with students–that may make the decision easier. </p>
<p>The scholarships you are talking about are great not only for the money, but for the opportunities they offer. Check out the details. </p>
<p>If Williams was her favorite, she may decide to stay on the waitlist. It is a great school, and the way admissions are going these days, who knows how many kids will be taken off waitlists. Like Momrath I hate waitlists, but it doesn’t hurt to move on with plans but perhaps be pleasantly surprised. </p>
<p>You could have had any number of other schools on that list, but you know, the ones that were on there were on there for reasons. For busy kids like your D, it is not so easy to do twenty-apps well, to cover all bases, though in retrospect we all have the could-of would-have moments. It’s not only the stats that bring in scholarships like the (several!) offers your D got–it’s academic and extracurricular commitment, evidence of promise, great essays, well-done applications, well-thought-out selection of schools that “fit”. She will be in good company and she did a GREAT job. Not to mention, she obviously had much support and encouragement from a loving parent. I would give you both lots of pats on the back for all of these offers. </p>
<p>Good luck with the decisions, and with Dart as well.</p>
<p>MomofWildChild, it’s great that your S thinks he’s found his fit. As a mother of two WildChildren, I know what it’s like to pray that they’ll find the right post-HS place.</p>
<p>I may have been a little misleading- S has not at all decided. He also liked Penn and Princeton (and Cornell). The important thing was that he DID like Colgate a lot, which is a match/safety for him because of his sport. I did not expect him to be as taken with it since it is remote and smaller than some of the others he will be considering. A lot is going to depend on where he is strongly recruited and which of his top choices can offer the most help with admissions. Colgate was very clear on what they can do for him, Princeton much less so. He wants to visit Williams, Brown and Amherst, and I had a few southern schools on the list. I want to visit Dartmouth (is it REALLY too late for me to go back to college???)</p>
<p>You guys, this is such a great thread. It is exactly what I need to read today as I wait for 5 o’clock to get here with D’s last school decision. SHE chose her schools, based on HER criteria. I know she will do well wherever she goes. I feel like a dog that can’t stop worrying a bone, and she seems fine with everything. Even if she gets into the big reach, if I had to lay odds right now, I would say she will end up at her safety. So why is it bugging me so much? </p>
<p>I guess I know why, and I’m ashamed to say. She feels compared to an uber-competitive relative with slightly higher scores from a better high school. Comes from the prestige w ho re family of all time. Whether kid gets into one of her several ivy or top 25 schools or not parents will be dining out on the free ride at lesser private for all time. The kids applied to one of the same schools–I fear one will get in and one won’t, and despite the fact that D doesn’t really care, she is made to care by the constant comparisons.</p>
<p>Thanks. I feel like I just went to confession.</p>
<p>ez with an upset stonach.</p>
<p>Cricket - Yes, I think we might try to negotiate with Hamilton if that’s D’s top choice. And yes, it only makes sense to review all of her choices once the decisions are in and the dust has settled.</p>
<p>MomofWildChild - We know an female athlete who lived in one of the apartments owned by Colgate, and it sure beats a dorm room! I don’t know if those are reserved for athletes, upperclassmen, or both. My D would NOT be an athlete there. Your S is looking at a lot of fantastic schools. I think the rural setting needs to be seriously considered. No matter how a school feels at first, four years is a long time to wake up in a small town if you’re not used to it.</p>
<p>ezduzzit - Everyone likes to feel special and everyone has some level of competitiveness. I am not exempt, nor is D. But asmuch as I would like to vicariously live through my D at times (she’s much more successful than I was at her age), we all know the main thing is our kids’ happiness. I empathize with you, but your D will make the right decisions.</p>
<p>DadofB&G: In a few hours, your daughter will hear from Dartmouth. You will then have another piece of the puzzle to put on the table, and will move to the next phase: weighing the choices, strategizing over the waitlist situation, etc. For New England people, and high-achieving students applying to LACs, Dartmouth holds very special appeal. There’s something about Dartmouth that gets under one’s skin and it is so exciting to visualize one’s self or one’s child being a part of that community, walking across that campus, etc. As #2/300, your daughter is clearly a very accomplished, high-profile senior in her high school community. As parents of such an applicant, we think, how much better could she have done? No better, she’s at the top. What more could they want? Even #1/300, 4.0, 1600 is no guarantee. She has a ticket. Very soon, you will know the outcome of the years of preparation and all of those campus visits. Already you know that your guidance in terms of match schools was a bullseye. With the financial offers, I’d call that a bullseye-plus. She feels good about her choices! You won’t go broke! This is a success story!</p>
<p>I have spoken to a couple of parents this week who are second-guessing their oversight of the process. One very strong applicant is living a multi-waitlist nightmare. Another applicant has received good news from almost every one of his match schools, and like you, his mom was second-guessing whether he should have applied to more high-matches. I suppose it’s natural. But that decision was made months ago. We strive for sanity when our child applies to 7 well-chosen schools instead of casting a wider net of the basic 7 plus another few high-reaches and reaches… it could go on and on. Don’t lose sleep (and relive autumn 2004!) by reconsidering the fit and the reach/matchiness of all the New England LAC’s. (I won’t invite debate by listing the names here.)</p>
<p>So today, if she’s accepted, wow, your brain circuits will be working overtime to weigh her choices. If her application is denied (I like that phrase so much more than “if SHE is REJECTED”, her other choices/opportunities are WONDERFUL. And if she’s waitlisted, what an exquisite dilemma.</p>
<p>You did your job well, and she is in a very strong position.</p>