<p>Actually, I’m surprised by how passionate people on CC feel about the alma marters–if you asked my parents about their school, they would say they had fun, got generally good educations, went skiing a lot (my dad especially), made friends who they are still extremely close to today, and eventually graduated, got jobs, and had kids. ;)</p>
<p>I like how Northstar thinks posting on this board is my entire life. I made this account in april or may and haven’t used it again until today. You on the other hand have 16,000!!! posts. Believe it or not, I am enjoying life. Why are you so invested in a school you have no connection to? It’s bizarre.</p>
<p>Here’s my point: Yes, I know UofC has the reputation as the place where fun comes to die, but the prospect of the life of the mind denotes more passion and positive energy than actually exists. I could work just as hard as anyone at that school (I graduated with both general honors and honors in my major). There is a stark disconnect between the passion that is in the admissions department and the rest of the school. Potential students need to know that. I am in a unique position to attest to that fact.</p>
<p>I also like how Northstar is barely holding back a psychological analysis of me. I wonder what professional and ethical standards have to say about analyzing someone over the internet to win a petty argument.</p>
<p>“There is a stark disconnect between the passion that is in the admissions department and the rest of the school”
Can you expand on this with examples? I think it would helpful to future students to learn as much about what Chicago was like for you, both the good and the bad, in order to have a better idea of what they may encounter.
Full disclosure- Everyone - parents, HS counselor, and son, always thought Chicago would be the “perfect” college for him. He was accepted at Chicago both as a freshman and and as a transfer student his sophomore year. [Did not matriculate there originally in part because of non existant FA offer] He did transfer into Chicago his sophomore year, lasted 1 qtr, and was not happy for numerous reasons- some his fault[ he did not look closely at how few profs were teaching in his area of interest], some Chicago’s fault[ all transfer students were housed 12 blocks away from campus, making it very hard to meet other non transfer students], some just a general lack of fit[ he found that conversation at Chicago truly is a “combat sport” and that was a turn off], some of which are hard to discover until you are actually there for a while. After 1 qtr he was fortunate to be able to return to his current college, where he has happily been ever since. He still has some friends at Chicago, including one who also is miserable and wants to transfer out. So I would be interested in hearing of another students experience there, and why he was miserable.</p>
<p>This thread degenerated a good while back to a questioning of posters motives and personal attacks without apparent purpose. For the life of me, I can’t see what it adds to cc. Happy New Year!</p>
<p>“I also like how Northstar is barely holding back a psychological analysis of me. I wonder what professional and ethical standards have to say about analyzing someone over the internet to win a petty argument.”</p>
<p>You can read my mind? Amazing.</p>
<p>What professional and ethical standards? I’m not licensed in any profession nor have I ever claimed to be.</p>
<p>“I like how Northstar thinks posting on this board is my entire life. I made this account in april or may and haven’t used it again until today. You on the other hand have 16,000!!! posts. Believe it or not, I am enjoying life. Why are you so invested in a school you have no connection to? It’s bizarre.”</p>
<p>? very few of my posts have been on U of Chicago. I don’t have positive or negative feelings about it. I do wonder, however, about anyone who comes here and gives themselves a name proclaiming their hate of the school that they attend.</p>
<p>Nor do I think that here is your entire life. What I do notice, however, is that your entire purpose of being here seems to be to slam the school that you graduated from. I also notice that your earliest posts simply proclaimed that U of Chicago “sucked.” Such posts weren’t very informative and just seemed designed to vent your spleen for reasons I don’t understand.</p>
<p>^^you too cur!!! how is midge? any word on where she will be next year?</p>
<p>NSM, as much a I respect you and your contributions to CC over the years, you really are not doing yourself any credit by continuing to respond to taunts from another, much younger poster. just saying…</p>
<p>I’m in a bad mood because I probably need a medication change. I’ve been battling depression for the last several weeks. I don’t need someone of any age taunting me. Sometimes even I get tired of having to rise above things. I’m tired of being blasted by people for appropriately mentioning my college-- not to brag, but simply to mention my experiences and viewpoint. It gets tired and old very fast. I’m also tired of the snide suggestions that I’m somehow looking down on people when I’ve encouraged people here to go to all kinds of colleges, and am proud of the colleges that my own kids and husband went to even though those colleges weren’t among the most competitive.</p>
<p>Meanwhile, I don’t have positive or negative feelings about U of C. I’ve never been there. I believe it’s probably a grat place for some students, a bad place for others. I don’t understand, though, why anyone would come to CC just to blast their alma mater. Seems odd to me like dwelling in the past instead of moving on with one’s life.</p>
<p>Northstar, I’m sorry I’ve been antagonizing you, I’ve just felt under seige from the minute I started posting here. You said before you have an advanced degree in clinical psychology from GW and you made comments about whether my rage is directed at UofC to compensate for personal shortcomings. I apologize for assuming you were a making an unprofessional analysis of me.</p>
<p>For Menlopark:
The core is the most glaring example as it is a central pillar of what it means to go to UofC. It’s a good idea in practice, but the classes are taught by a wide variety of profs who do not seem to enjoy teaching those classes. Most of the students, except “that kid” also seem to be bored and do not contribute much. The core needs to be revitalized, as it is drastically failing to fulfill its objectives.</p>
<p>Secondly, I was surprisingly underwhelmed by the profs in classes from virtually every department. I will give the school credit because I had very few grad students teaching classes, but the professors (with a few rare exceptions) seemed only mildly interested in what they taught. Sanderson and Pape leap to mind as two who genuinely put forth a class of the caliber I expected from the University. The rest don’t even come close.</p>
<p>I agree with CalMom. Most of the time, people operate in a confirmation bias mode - which generally means you filter out the information that doesn’t agree with your opinion or belief system and you latch on to information that confirms what you already believe to be true. All of us do it. Some more than others. Once someone has made up their mind and start thinking in absolutes, it become almost impossible to change someone’s mind.</p>
<p>But the thing that people tend to overlook is that there is generally some measure of truth when a school has a ‘reputation’ for something. UofC has a reputation for serious, hard-working, stay-in-the-lab all night types of students. The school has found a way to spin that in a more positive light ‘the life of the mind’ and a lot of kids who are hungry for a more intellectual culture are attracted to that concept. I know my son is - the irony is he’s not a hard-working, stay-in-the-lab all night kind of kid. But he is a very deep thinker and he is itching to get someplace where that type of student is the norm, not the exception. That is the perception that Chicago has tried to develop - I’m sure that there is some truth to IHateUofC’s perception and there is probably some of the environment my son is looking for also. It’s never all black or white or all good or bad. Life is much more pleasant when you start to see things in shades of gray.</p>
<p>I’ve read that something like 30% of all college students end up transferring to another school. A year ago I would have said ‘no way’ but after watching the last two graduating classes at my son’s HS - I believe it.</p>
<p>Kids often fall in love with the perception of a school. They ignore the reputation of the school and often when they get there, they are surprised about the realities. To give you an example, all six of the seniors out of last year’s graduating class that went to Alabama came back in state this year. What they found is Alabama is a frat-dominated, huge party school. I’m not saying that’s bad - many kids love, love, love that environment. Many kids who aren’t into that scene, get there and are able to find their own niche. But these kids either fell in love with the campus or they liked the idea of a big football school or they follow another friend there. No matter. They ignored the reputation of the school thinking it wouldn’t be an issue and they were wrong. Reality has a way of biting you when you aren’t looking.</p>
<p>IHateUofC - I could totally see my son (if he got in) ending up feeling the same way about Chicago. I appreciate your feedback. He is picturing informal student gatherings to discuss Nietzsche deep into the night. I’m sure there is some of that there - but it is also a university with the reputation of serious studying and major hard work. There is a reason UofC has more Nobel Laureates than any other college.</p>
<p>IhateUofC - you have the benefit of experience and could do a lot of good if you gave more detail about about your experiences. Did you have any good experiences? Did you ever feel you were enriched by attending the school? Were professors accessible? Did you feel you needed to study 24/7 to stay afloat? Did you meet any students who wanted the same thing out of their education but weren’t getting it? You get the picture. If you want to influence people not to go there, then do it in a way that is more persuasive and less likely to put people on the defensive. Remember, we are all susceptible to confirmation bias. You will have to do a lot better than you have on this thread if you truly want to change people’s mind. :)</p>
<p>Thank you for the apology, IhateUofC. I’m sorry if I’ve said things that have been rude to you. I’m genuinely sorry that you’ve had a bad college experience. Believe it or not, I hated being at Harvard, so I have empathy for you. I’ve found it’s a lot more fun being a Harvard alum than it was being a Harvard student particularly during the protest movements, which was what was going on when I was there. I hated it so much that I didn’t return for 15 years. </p>
<p>I always tell students the the good and the bad when I talk about Harvard. The good: the most interesting people I’ve ever been around in my life. The bad: So little attention was paid to undergrads that unless one is very confident and assertive, it’s easy to feel lost and ignored. My S’s wonderful experience at his second tier LAC has showed me what I missed in my undergrad experience. </p>
<p>My feeling is that LACs are likely to provide students with more of the close relationships with professors that many students would best flourish under. I love cities, however, so even if I had a magic wand and could do my life over, I’d probably end up again at a university like Harvard and endure the bad with the good. But maybe I’d choose Barnard… Sometimes I dream that I’m making that kind of decision.</p>
<p>Anyway, IhateUofC, I hope you’re now working or going to grad school in a place that makes you happy. Life is too short to keep being miserable.</p>
<p>IHateUofC - I didn’t see your last post before I posted. Your response to Menlopark is exactly the type of information we would all love to see from you. You have a very valuable experience to share and I know I, for one, will share it with my son so he could make a more informed decision. Thank you for sharing that.</p>
<p>'the classes are taught by a wide variety of profs who do not seem to enjoy teaching those classes. ’
that sounds familiar.
‘the professors (with a few rare exceptions) seemed only mildly interested in what they taught’
as does that.
I think the conundrum that U of Chicago presents is that for the most part, Chicago is and always has been about “the University”, i.e.the various grad schools, and the “College” has for much of its history been an afterthought, if not a waste of time for profs who are obligated to teach there, but have other interests than working with undergrads. There also have been times when eliminating the College was strongly considered. I believe that “attitude” still permeates much of the profs at Chicago, and presents a huge challenge for the admissions office looking to attract students to the College. Chicago does not offer a nurturing, supportive environment to undergrads. The students who are most likely to be happy there need to have a pretty “thick skin”, and I’m not just referring to the weather.</p>
<p>^^ I think a lot of those same things can be said for my son’s school. You are pretty much on your own and a lot of his freshman teachers (most, in fact) were terrible.</p>
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<p>I wonder whether this is the downside of the Core? If profs have to teach specific courses in order to meet the needs of the Core, rather than their own area of research, the topic of their choice, then perhaps they may come across as only mildly interested in what they teach?
How about non-Core classes? were profs similarly disengaged?</p>
<p>“How about non-Core classes? were profs similarly disengaged?”</p>
<p>Yes, sorry if that wasn’t clear in my original response. Very few classes outside the core were taught with enthusiasm. Sanderson and Pape are two of the better profs out there if you’re looking for examples of when things are done right.</p>
<p>Also, I never felt like we were treated as afterthoughts or second class citizens. In fact, many of my classes had grad students in them, but still very little energy.</p>
<p>Were you a humanities or social sciences major? I heard that Prof. Sally is a fabulous math prof.
Harvard hired away a number of Chicago profs (humanities and social studies), and they’ve had/have reputations as fabulous lecturers. So I am surprised that you had so many disengaged profs.</p>
<p>
Great typo, psych!!</p>
<p>
That’s your subjective interpretation of the “life of the mind” meme. Admittedly the job of the people who market the school is to make that phrase something that produces a positive emotional response in the mind of the prospective student – but that really is an ambiguous phrase, deliberately chosen because it sounds good. </p>
<p>That phrase can mean different things to different people. </p>
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<p>I think that some people find and generate their own passion. You have one viewpoint and it is a valid viewpoint, but it is still a subjective impression based on your own experience, and is unlikely to be universal. It is heavily influenced by your particular course of study.</p>
<p>I attended college at a large university and was aware of very distinct and stark contrasts in different departments within the school, and the profs and students in them. It had nothing to do with the subject – but the tone was set by the inner politics of the tenured profs within the department. I opted not to major in the area that was of greatest interest to me because of that difference – I simply didn’t like the profs who taught the courses or most of the other students in that major, so I opted for something different. </p>
<p>So when you make a generalization about “the rest of the school” I am highly skeptical. If you were attending a very small LAC I might feel differently, but to generalize so broadly seems to me to signify that you had unrealistic expectations. When you mention that you were “underwhelmed” by most of your profs, but had a couple who did fulfill your expectations – I see a student who bought into a fiction about what college would be. ALL colleges are filled with “underwhelming” profs – they are human beings, and it is actually rather unusual for great intellectual and academic accomplishment to go hand-in-hand with great teaching skills. The best teachers are probably at community colleges – given the low status and low pay, there’s not much reason for a person to be on the faculty of a community college unless they really love to teach and want to be engaged with their students. The more prestigious the college or university, the more likely it is that their faculty will be filled with many individuals of extraordinary accomplishment who want to get on with their research or writing, and come to view teaching undergraduates as something of a nuisance that must be scheduled around the rest of their life. I mean… it’s probably kind of hard for a world-famous nobel laureate to get all that excited about teaching an introductory course to 19 year olds – when they could be spending that time in the lab working with doctoral students and post-docs on cutting-edge research.</p>