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<p>I disagree with this. Some Nobel laureates at Harvard have taught freshman seminars happily and successfully. These are not mandatory introductory courses, but on topics of their own choosing, pitched at freshmen. They volunteered to teach those courses, and from what I read and heard, were very popular. Prof. Roy Glauber was actually in the middle of teaching a freshman seminar when he was told he’d been awarded the Nobel prize.</p>
<p>And don’t forget that Richard Feynman quite enjoyed teaching freshman physics for most of his career.</p>
<p>In my experience at Chicago, almost all of my professors have been extremely enthusiastic, and ESPECIALLY in Core classes. When there was a lack of enthusiasm, it was within the students. Anyone who really wants to get an education and participate in class is able to, and if the apathetic attitude of some of the members of the class really bothers you that much, you probably don’t have the best attitude toward academics yourself.</p>
<p>“The more prestigious the college or university, the more likely it is that their faculty will be filled with many individuals of extraordinary accomplishment who want to get on with their research or writing, and come to view teaching undergraduates as something of a nuisance that must be scheduled around the rest of their life.”
Calmom, that is NOT something a 17 year old in HIGH SCHOOL is likely to KNOW, now is it? Especially if they did not have the benefit of reading CC when they were researching colleges, or did not have a knowledgeable HS counselor or parents who went to college or grad school or an older sibling who went to college, etc, etc. In hindsight, yes everything you say is valid, but you are extrapolating that someone in High School is going to KNOW what YOU learned after being in college, and grad school, and after having 2 children go through the college application process. I think that may be expecting too much too soon.</p>
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<p>LOL. </p>
<p>You’d be in for a few surprises I think. As a Barnard mom I am very impressed with the Barnard faculty and my daughter has wonderful relationships with a choice few faculty members. However, the problem with Barnard is that it is also Columbia. (Despite the vehement denials of many on the CC boards). Everything you hated about Harvard probably is pretty much the same at Columbia. But Barnard would be a mere shadow of itself and a very limited place without the resources of Columbia thrown in, so you can’t really have one without the other. </p>
<p>Plus Barnard is in Manhattan. You sometimes need a tough skin, confidence and assertiveness just to order a cup of coffee. </p>
<p>Barnard is an interesting mix. But not exactly a warm, fuzzy kind of place. I wouldn’t particularly recommend it to someone who wanted a LAC. It’s more for someone who wants the best of both worlds – LAC + urban research university - and is willing to accept that the worst of both worlds is part of the deal.</p>
<p>
Actually, that’s probably the nutshell version of what my once-17-year-old son told me when he explained why he wanted to attend a small LAC rather than the large state U. that I had always assumed both kids would attend. He didn’t get it from me, and he didn’t get it from CC. </p>
<p>He looked at Chicago seriously because of the faculty/student ratio, but realized that it wasn’t what he was looking for. His ideal was a LAC with 1,500 or fewer students. </p>
<p>(The LAC wasn’t all it was cracked up to be either, but that’s another story)</p>
<p><a href=“The%20LAC%20wasn’t%20all%20it%20was%20cracked%20up%20to%20be%20either,%20but%20that’s%20another%20story”>quote</a>
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<p>That’s the thing - it’s hard to know exactly what a particular college is like until you actually live it. Just as it is hard to really know what a career is like until you done it for several years. Look at all the adults walking around who dislike their chosen careers. We tend to think in terms of the ‘good’ (great salary, lots of job opportunities, sounds exciting, etc) and discount the less than good (yep, 80 hours a week go with that great salary, you might end up spending part of your time doing mundane tasks, the career requires frequent moves in order to get ahead, etc).</p>
<p>Same for colleges - the ‘good’ (prestigious school, lots of research going on) goes along with the less than good (professors who are more interested in research and publishing, classes that require a tremendous amount of work, classes that are mostly taught by TAs, etc.). Or the flip side for the small LACs (lots of personal attention from the profs, get to know people more quickly) and the less good (what if you can’t find ‘your people’, less variety of classes).</p>
<p>Honestly, I’ve never experienced anything in life that was 100% perfect. The trick is to figure out what is most important to you, find out where you can best get that need met and learn to live with the downside.</p>
<p>I worry about my own son, he really doesn’t know what he wants. It changes from day to day. Small LAC to big state U and everything in between. He’s applying to 12 schools and they run the gamut. I will admit to adding 2 of those to his list because I wanted him to have a small instate LAC choice as well as the State flagship where most of his friends are likely to go. I didn’t want to get to April and have him whine that he should have applied to more in-state schools.</p>
<p>Since he has been in a small private school since 2nd grade, he thinks he wants a bigger setting. Understandable but he doesn’t really have the personality to thrive in a huge setting (quiet, shy, introverted, not a joiner - he could just as easily get lost). He thinks he wants to get out of the South but he’s never been willing to even go to camp unless someone he knows went with him. Sigh. We shall see. This will either be a big growth opportunity for him or he’ll be miserable and want to change schools. My bet is he will wait to see what schools his friends choose (most will stay in state) and then base his decision on that. At this point, I’m okay with that. I’m more afraid of him going off to a place like Chicago and being miserable and feeling very alone.</p>
<p>Calmom, do you think I’m so stupid or naive as to not realize that “ALL colleges are filled with “underwhelming” profs”?</p>
<p>I actually had reasonable expectations going into school, and I’d like to think my actions reflect a certain degree of reasonableness (look back and see why I never transfered). My vitriol isn’t because I’m a spoiled child who expected fairy tales and unicorns to come bursting out of harper and cobb. I actually gave UChicago more than a fair shake, switching majors when I couldn’t find satisfaction in the first and routinely trying different RSO’s and activities.</p>
<p>So stop talking down to me</p>
<p>“IhateUof C”: Your statement reminds me of a sour teenager: “Very few classes outside the core were taught with enthusiasm.” Unless you change your username…a smart high school student will not grant any credibility of what you have to say:</p>
<p>-First of all for being a graduate student, in selecting your screen name you are showing lack of professionalism. This by itself makes me doubt greatly that you are a college student. Your thought and feelings are more accord with an scenario where a high school student was not accepted to a university. The mentality of demanding or expecting great enthusiasm from all professors, and “hating” the university for this reason also reflects thoughts coming from a kid or an immature high school student. (College classes are not a cheerleader class or happy training).</p>
<p>If you attended that university, which I have my doubts, you certainly seems to have other personal reasons (did not pass a class, disagree badly with a class, did not get the expected grades…?. The pitiful statement of lack of enthusiasm, could not be a reason for hating a university, it is difficult to believe that many professors lack of enthusiasm. It seems that you want to hide the real reasons of your bitterness behind immature reasons such as the allegedly lack of enthusiasm of professors ( IMO). </p>
<p>I will suggest you change the unprofessional screen name… Other than that I hope you can overcome any “Hate” you may have for anyone… your hate will consume you and destroy your energy- Best advice you will ever get concerning feelings. I wish you well!</p>
<p>“I worry about my own son, he really doesn’t know what he wants. It changes from day to day. Small LAC to big state U and everything in between. He’s applying to 12 schools and they run the gamut.
Since he has been in a small private school since 2nd grade, he thinks he wants a bigger setting. Understandable but he doesn’t really have the personality to thrive in a huge setting (quiet, shy, introverted, not a joiner - he could just as easily get lost).” </p>
<p>Wow Momlive, your Son could be my son’s clone! So I will tell you that it IS possible for an introverted young man to be happy at a big U! My son was also quiet, introverted, shy[ in small private schools his whole life] and I was very worried about him being able to make friends at a huge college and not get lost. He is at USC and has become so much more comfortable socially over the past 4 years it defies belief! One of the reasons he did choose USC over Chicago and the other, higher ranked smaller colleges he was accepted to was because he know a bunch of friends who would also be in LA, and that made the transition into college so much easier. It was the right choice for him, though I would have never predicted it at the beginning of his Sr year.</p>
<p>I have heard versions of some of IHate’s criticisms from the (dozens, now) of Chicago students I know – many feel the Core is a better idea than reality – but some of what he is saying sounds like he went to college on another planet. He seems to have graduated in my daughter’s class. She had a long list of things she disliked about the university (including scav hunt), and an even longer list of things she liked. She and all of her friends, as far as I have heard them talk, are pretty strong advocates for Chicago. And by and large they were marginal there (economics majors were also on the list of dislikes). My other kid and HIS friends are almost completely rah-rah about the place. If you asked him, he would say that the university has completely delivered on the promises the admissions department made. (His sister mocks him for this.) With the exception of a couple classes, he has liked every professor he has had, and more than liked a bunch of them.</p>
<p>Both my kids, and their friends, lead/led very balanced lives there. Sometimes perhaps a tad too balanced – as a parent I might have preferred to see a little more work on the academic side and fewer forays to the Northside or Indiana brewpubs, and maybe a little less time on clubs and jobs. But so be it.</p>
<p>I am sorry IHate had it so bad there, and that he wasn’t able to find a way to make it better. But he doesn’t sound typical at all, at least of the students I have met there.</p>
<p>Greenery, why should I be professional? I’m not representing a company or a school. I’m not even really representing myself since I’m anonymous.</p>
<p>I live for comments like yours. I have a diploma sitting next to me. I earned general honors and honors within my major, so go ahead and keep accusing me of being someone who was bitter for not making it in, or who flunked out, because you’re going to keep looking like a fool.</p>
<p>I see nothing wrong with posting negative (or positive) comments about any school. The more information the better. FWIW, I know several current UChicago students who feel the same way as IHateUofC. While some are happier than others, there seems to be a common complaint about the Core in general, as well as disinterested professors and larger classes than expected.</p>
<p>Thank you Anne</p>
<p>=Lack of judgment and prudence in selecting your screen name
1: a person lacking in judgment or prudence=Lack of judgment and prudence in selecting your screen name. </p>
<p>Well, you shouldn’t engage in calling names to the people that are giving you good advice. Calling names to all the posters or to me whom have already pointed out that your screen name is inappropriate and that you need to stop hating, shows lack of prudence and judgment. However, I have not call you fool and I will not, but you as a “college student” are expected to have some maturity and understanding. </p>
<p>2 one who is victimized =Hating a university for lack of professor’s enthusiasm
The meritless argument of hating a university for lack of professors’ enthusiasm does not merit an “IhateUoC” username. I know you are not at work but it still reflects something about you and you need to discover that yourself. Some other posters have given you some hints…</p>
<p>3 one lacking in common powers of understanding </p>
<p>=Not understanding our advice to you, given to you with the best intentions, of stopping hating and presenting your points in a way that let the reader to think there are something more than hate for “lack of enthusiasm.”
Having said that, we wish you well. I hope one day you can change your screen name and that you can get over of what “really” is bothering you. Life is too short to hold grudges and resentments.</p>
<p>anneroku: Comments are helpful, but a statement of “hating” a school for lack of “professor’s enthusiasm” has to raise suspicions especially from a graduate student. </p>
<h2>It is understandable that some students will not like the place they selected, especially if they have confronted certain problems, there are all kinds of reasons for not liking a place. However, under any such allegations them you as a reader will analyze each case individually. However, in the case of “ IhateUoC” something does not add up (hating a school for lack of “professor’s enthusiasm”.</h2>
<p>Should the people go around the world hating others for lack of enthusiasm; the mailman, the teachers, the priest, the boss, the mother, your brother, work environment?</p>
<p>Yes, I would love everyone be enthusiastic… but the reality is that life is not like that.</p>
<p>I wish posters would stop analyzing/criticizing IHateUofC. It’s hard for me to imagine that so few profs were able to engage/inspire their students; but that’s his personal experience and there’s not point challenging it. It’s not more or less valid than the experience of other students, including the children of parent posters here.</p>
<p>I wish we would focus on the UofC writing prompts and on the UofC itself. It’s far more useful to prospective students.</p>
<p>This is off topic, but since there are so many seasoned parent posters here I would just like to add one thing about how we address younger people when they come on this forum. Before we post anything, we should think about if we would say something similar to our own children in person, and wonder what their reaction would be. If our kids would think we are being condescending or unnecessarily critical, then most likely a young person on this forum would feel the same. If we continuously telling our own kids that their opinion is worthless than they will stop talking to us eventually. Ok, I am off my soap box.</p>
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<p>…except that that’s the danger when any college/U overpromises, exaggerates, or distorts expectations by way of its marketing. I think that’s part of the point he was making. To me, it’s just a logical result of the gap. (Disappointment)
:)</p>
<p>There’s really not much to say about the UChicago writing prompts, though. They are self-consciously “different” because the school prides itself on being self-consciously different. Some people get into that; others don’t. UChicago does this purposely because part of their self-image and conceit (not in the bad sense of the word) is that they are uncommon, different, not-where-the-masses-tread – else they’d be indistinguishable from Northwestern or from a whole bunch of other schools that offer a more Joe College experience. Again, some people get into that self-image; others don’t. One would think that the response of those who don’t get it should be “ah well, not my cup of tea” but for some reason, there are those for whom it engenders tons of invective about how pretentious and poseur-ish Chicago is.</p>
<p>Strawmen are fun to attack aren’t they? They don’t put up much of a fight.</p>
<p>Greenery, my issue with UChicago isn’t only one of professor enthusiasm. It looks like you just read the few posts I’ve made. If you go through my message history, you will an extensive critique.</p>
<p>To quickly address your points:
1)I actually thought this name was pretty funny, and judging from the explosive reactions it causes, I’d say I had good judgement in picking it.</p>
<p>2)Professor enthusiasm is not my only issue with the school. It’s pretty hilarious you can’t see past that one component of my argument.</p>
<p>3)I rarely use this name, so I’m not wasting much time with it.</p>
<p>I do have something to say about enthusiasm since you seem bizarrely fixated on it:
Of course people aren’t always going to be enthusiastic. But is it really that unreasonable of an expectation that a professor who has gone through upwards of 20 years of education, and then works at one of the best colleges in the country show some amount of energy and passion once in a while?</p>
<p>I’ll give my peers at University of Chicago credit, they can make a better argument than all of you. So far I’ve had several people seize on a word or a phrase, take it out of context and then try to beat me over the head with it to advance their cause instead of addressing the underlying points I’m making.</p>
<p>Re post #18:
I think every college overpromises. There are great profs and not-so-great profs at every college; there are students who are fully engaged and do more of the work and some who are slackers and some who, without being slackers, are not really engaged in some topics.</p>
<p>I wonder if Uof C is really successful in identifying students who will be really good fit for it, especially as regards the Core. When Harvard went through its review of the Core (which led to the new Gen Ed requirement), there were advocates of a Brown-style no-core curriculum and advocates of a Chicago/Columbia-style real core. My S, when he toured Brown, was really impressed by statements made by the students he met there, to the effect that the classes were really enjoyable because students actually chose to be in them.
There is something to be said for being pressured to take courses outside your area of immediate interest/comfort zone. I’m sure that years from now, my S will appreciate better some of the courses he had to take in order to fulfill his Core requirements. But as an experience, some of the courses were far less enjoyable than others, and the students less engaged in those than in others.</p>
<p>Re post 419. What exactly is meant by “different?” From what? In which way?</p>