<p>PG, would you feel better if I rephrased it as “Fwiw, and IMHO, those prompts do NOTHING to improve the quality of essays or elicit displays of the so-called intellectualism”?</p>
<p>It is really important to stress that everything we write here represents a personal opinion … unless properly quoted and annotated?</p>
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<p>I think it’s a mild form of hazing, in a sense, if you look at it in this light - you’ve got to have been quirky enough to run the gauntlet to have joined the club.</p>
<p>But if you think “the club” is immature, silly, and goofy, then why desire to join it?
It’s like looking at a fraternity that engages in goofy hazing, and then being upset that their hazing practices turn other people off to the frat when they could have contributed to or enjoyed the frat. True dat, as the young’uns like to say – but if you think the frat is goofy and immature and pretentious, shouldn’t you NOT care what it has to say about who is “cool enough” to join?</p>
<p>This is the disconnect I’m having trouble wrapping my head around. (I end sentences with prepositions, again clear evidence I’m not Chicago material.) You find Chicago’s marketing-of-self to be pretentious and posing – which is fine, you’re perfectly entitled to do so – but then you’re disappointed that such marketing precludes you from wanting to join the club. But it’s a club of people who like pretentious and posing things, apparently! So why do you want to join, again?</p>
<p>I’m baffled, too, about why some people seem to dislike Chicago’s prompts in such a personal way. If they don’t like the prompts, fine, but why care so much about prompts for a college one doesn’t want to attend? It’s not as if disliking the prompts means that one is stupid. How one feels about the prompts is just a personal preference.</p>
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<p>Why do people discuss a multitude of subjects of College Confidential? Why do people debate the minute details of completely trivial matters or the silly reactions of Ivy League primadonas … and repeat them ad nauseam? </p>
<p>Fwiw, the issue is NOT about liking or disliking prompts, and this because some here have it made it a point that it is WRONG to dislike the prompts, or in other cases to dare to speak ill about the University of Chicago. I believe that some went WAY over the top to discredit personal experience they happen to disagree with … or did I misread such posts? </p>
<p>However, after segregating the senseless attacks, what we DO have is a subject that is entirely germane to a discussion about college applications. Isn’t the image projected by a school such as Chicago through its application not relevant to our discussions about selectivity and competition? Isn’t important to understand why some students are attracted by a school and … annoyed by others? </p>
<p>Why does Epiphany’s D end up not considering Chicago? And, for that matter, my sister as well (as I shared several years ago when I started the thread about the “banner year” for Chicago prompts.) </p>
<p>This is a place where we share opinions … freely. All opinions, and not only the opinions that might please a more vocal majority or the fanboys of a particular school. At least, that was the College Confidential I joined a long time ago! Too often, it seems that the stench of the Political Forum has permeated the remaining fora and that questioning the motives and opinions of others comes with the territory. </p>
<p>Ask IHUC how he feels about the protection offered by the TOS and why people attacked him in … such a in such a personal way!</p>
<p>I believe the following from the then admissions dean summarizes what Chicago is thinking when asking those prompts and what Jim Nondorf was doing when he sent that essay.
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<p>Chicago was one of my Ds top two choices. As far as I could tell, her reasons were the Core and the fact that, to her, one of the coolest kids at her high school was at Chicago. She loved the post cards, but she wasn’t all that captivated by any of her year’s prompts. She took the easy way out. She just picked one of them and changed it to make it more her own. I didnt think her essay was that quirky or intellectual, but it sure told a lot about her, including that she might be less butter pecan and more chocolate mint but still a great fit for Chicago.</p>
<p>Fwiw, not everyone who applies to or attends Chicago is that invested on those prompts. At least, one student believed (and didnt care) that those prompts are just Chicagos attempt to differentiate itself in an Ivy-crowded market.</p>
<p>I am baffled as to why people think it is not appropriate to discuss writing prompts, especially those that have been produced with so much thought.
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<p>No, it’s not, not if you mean by that, exclusively. Can we not have an opinion as to whether the Chicago adcom (or any other adcom for that matter) are succeeding at the task they have given themselves?
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<p>Precisely. Has expressing a personal preference become verboten on CC? Wow!!!</p>
<p>Most of the posters on this thread are not personally invested in the Chicago admission process. It has not stopped any of us from expressing an opinion, er, “personal preference.”</p>
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<p>Who has said it is wrong to dislike the prompts? Could you quote anyone here who has said that it is wrong to not care for the Chicago prompts? People have different tastes. Some people will be actively excited by the prompts, others will be neutral, others will be indifferent. Why do you keep setting up this strawman that we believe it is “wrong” to dislike Chicago’s quirky essay prompts, xiggi? </p>
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<p>Except you’ve said all there is to say. A certain x% of students, who are certainly intellectual and otherwise qualified for Chicago and peer schools, are turned off by the prompts and hence don’t apply. Chicago apparently isn’t bothered by that and in fact I suspect they get a little kick out of it. So what? So they don’t apply and said students go elsewhere. Why is that a problem? It would be a problem if there weren’t other excellent colleges out there for intellectual students and their choices were only Chicago and Eastern Montana Community College and Car Wash. But there aren’t. *There are plenty of choices, so why is the absence of Chicago from their considered set such a big deal? * Who is it a shame for? It’s a bigger shame for Chicago to miss out on other bright students, than it is for bright students to miss out on Chicago. So, it’s Chicago’s problem. Not the students’ problem. </p>
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<p>The normal response to not liking a particular school is to say, “Well, then, I guess I won’t apply,” and move on with one’s life. This is as weird as the WashU bashing that goes on at CC. You don’t like WashU? Don’t apply. You don’t like Chicago’s prompts? Don’t apply. What more is there to say?<br>
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<p>"I am baffled as to why people think it is not appropriate to discuss writing prompts, especially those that have been produced with so much thought. "</p>
<p>Fine to discuss writing prompts. What I’m not understanding is why some people seem to be taking the writing prompts so personally. Fine to dislike the writing prompts, but what I don’t understand is how some people apparently think something is wrong with Chicago for using those prompts. </p>
<p>Obviously, the prompts work for Chicago or the university wouldn’t keep using them. While their prompts and humor turn off many parents and prospective students, the prompts and humor attract others. Chicago isn’t having trouble amassing a fine student body, and outstanding students who don’t like Chicago have plenty of other excellent colleges to apply to and gain acceptances from. What I’m curious about is why so many people seem to take Chicago’s prompts as personal affronts. It seems to be the only college that people here take so personally.</p>
<p>Other schools that pride themselves on being different-- Deep Springs and The Citadel come to mind – don’t attract such attention.</p>
<p>Right. The writing prompts are being taken as evidence that Chicago alone has defined what it means to be intellectual and if you don’t get it, you can’t ever be in the Intellectual Club. Well, who says Chicago alone gets to define what intellectual is? Chicago? If you think their prompts are pretentious, then what do you care what their alleged opinion of you is? </p>
<p>It seems like some want Chicago to come out and say, “If you don’t like our prompts, that’s OK. We still think you’re just as smart, too.” Why the need for affirmation from Chicago? </p>
<p>For the life of me, I’ve never seen people who were simultaneously so put off by what they perceive as pretentiousness, who then cared what the people behind the pretentiousness thought of their intellectual acumen.</p>
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<p>Fine. Let’s take some other top 20 schools. Some students are annoyed or turned off by Duke’s heavy-sports-enthusiasm-and-boostering atmosphere, that they perceive as excessive and over the top and too competitive for their tastes. Some students are annoyed or turned off by Northwestern’s relatively high participation in the Greek system. Is the conclusion that therefore Duke should tone down its sports boosterism and NU get rid of the Greek system because they might be turning off a few potential applicants?</p>
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<p>Haha - there was never a better time to use silence as the best rebuttal. All I had to do is let the next two posts convey the same trite message an faulty assumptions. </p>
<p>Is it necessary to point out the parallel between the “lighthearted” franch TAIS-TOI and the message that it is OK to dislike the prompts as long as you … shut up about it, or at least fail to explain WHY one actually believes the prompts DO NOT WORK!</p>
<p>And, if the disenchanted opionion is so wrong, why is it important for disinterested people to come back and back and back with thrie opposition to whomever happens to not like the prompts and think they are far from as productive as some would like to advance. </p>
<p>A good start, perhaps, would be to actually read the arguments of others instead of jumping at the first opportunity to find a fault …, any fault!</p>
<p>You don’t get mantori suzuki’s humor, then. He was tais-toi-ing after your il n’y a que la verite qui blesse remark (sorry for the inability to add the appropriate accent marks). It was funny. You didn’t seriously think he was saying that you weren’t “allowed” to post on this thread or have an opinion, did you?</p>
<p>You’ve EXPLAINED why you believe the prompts don’t work. Some of us believe that you’re just simply not in a position to determine whether they work or not, since you’re not a member of the adcom at Chicago tasked with reviewing the resulting essays and building a freshman class as a result. </p>
<p>Is there a reason that you believe that Chicago is not happy with either the number of applicants or the quality of said applicants that they have to choose from? I have seen nothing from the university to suggest that that is the case. They seem to be quite delighted and enthusiastic about the young scholars that they choose, per the speech referenced upthread. Maybe they’re lying? </p>
<p>Normally, when an institution is dissatisfied with the current state of affairs, it does something differently. In the absence of seeing Chicago change the type of prompts, I can only conclude that <em>they</em> are satisfied. You may not be, but I humbly submit Chicago doesn’t really care all that much whether you are or aren’t.</p>
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<p>Interesting. </p>
<p>Although it misses the point about a school needing to change WHAT IT IS to attract students, I actually thought about what would happen if Duke decided to offer a prompt along the lines of “You and your lacrosse stick. You have now become one. Describe how this union of matter and man could serve your school or help you discover your inner hidden self” What if NU would ask students. “Bacchus, Hedone, and Bast are revered by our students. Please describe how you plan to contribute to developing our spirit and increasing the impact of Greek life on our campus.”</p>
<p>Prompts are prompts. Painting a school with different stripes than reality is another issue altogether.</p>
<p>NSM:</p>
<p>Who do you think takes the writing prompts “personally?” Any more than those who think they reflect exactly what the Chicago adcom want them to reflect exactly the special Chicago essence?</p>
<p>We are expressing preferences and opinions. In my book, preferences and opinions are personal. </p>
<p>If I wanted the Chicago adcom to change its writing prompts, I would not be airing my opinions on CC. I would write to the Dean of Admission. What I and others are doing here is just discussing. Have you got anything against it?</p>
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<p>Again, you’re dead wrong. There were hundreds of opportunities for a witty repartee using French. There were hundreds of words that would have been lighthearted or humorous. The choice of Suzuki was not of them. </p>
<p>As the recipient of the “barb” I think I am entitled to consider what is funny or not. Don’t I?</p>
<p>I find it curious that there is such a response concerning the prompts from one school. It seems they are doing what Chicago does best, create debate and inquiry about ideas. </p>
<p>Pizzagirl also has an excellent point as well when she asked, “Is the conclusion that therefore Duke should tone down its sports boosterism and NU get rid of the Greek system because they might be turning off a few potential applicants?” I, for one, am glad there are schools with separate identities, cultures, and missions. And further, just because that is the perceived culture doesn’t mean there are not people who hate sports at Duke, loath fraternities at NW, or love learning for learnings sake at Penn. Just as there are people who like sports and fraternities and who are interested in a professional career at Chicago. Still, each has its own personality which should be celebrated. The prompts help identify who Chicago is as much as sports, frats, and undergrad business schools do at others. Students will make their decisions accordingly.</p>
<p>“Who do you think takes the writing prompts “personally?” Any more than those who think they reflect exactly what the Chicago adcom want them to reflect exactly the special Chicago essence?”</p>
<p>I don’t want to name names because I don’t want to hurt feelings or look like I’m trying to flame. I believe that some (not all) people here who don’t like the prompts are taking the writing prompts personally, and they fear that not liking the prompts reflects relatively low intelligence for CC or indicates that they aren’t intellectual. So, in some cases, I think that heatedly discussing a dislike of the prompts reflects a lack of confidence and comfort in their own opinions and intelligence and how they are regarded by others.</p>
<p>I don’t think that the prompts measure how intellectual one is. I love the prompts, while also believing that most students at Chicago are far more intellectual than am I.</p>
<p>I think that probably people who are good fits for Chicago will like the prompts while people who dislike the prompts wouldn’t be happy there even if they have the qualifications that would lead to their being admitted to Chicago. I don’t think that all people who like the prompts would be good fits for Chicago. I love the prompts, but think that I would have been miserable attending that university.</p>
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<p>still chuckling at that. Unfortunately, that and the NU one has me now mentally composing all sorts of similar prompts for all the schools whose roadshows we have endured over the last years.</p>
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<p>I’m thinking that maybe the frustration stems from some people sensing that there is some sort of inside joke, and they don’t get it. The combination of the whimsical with intellectual seems to be a concept that is elusive to some.</p>