@SJ2727 When I posed the post I specifically did not specify finances but know it is a real consideration. We visited all schools prior to application submission because we agreed not to apply to any school that DD is not willing to attend if accepted.
On another note finances can not always be a reason to omit a school that could be a good fit because you actually do not know what the possibilities could be in terms of scholarships and financial aid until you get the package. I originally did not have any Ivy’s on DS09 list because I didn’t think I could afford it. One of his teachers insisted that he apply and he was accepted, attended and graduated. Our payments, without any loans was manageable. You just never know.
@ucbalumnus: WE as a family are making the decision. WE visited all of the colleges and only applied to colleges that she would be willing to attend if accepted. WE had the conversation about budget, however distance does also play a part due to travel and hotel expenses.
@Sarrip If you run the NPC, there is little guessing about affordability. Need only schools won’t magically make your $80k EFC $40k if the $80k is based on the NPC.
I don’t want to put words into @Sarrip 's mouth but I think some of these schools under discussion may offer holistic merit which has the potential to make a school affordable but wouldn’t be clearly affordable or unaffordable until the decision is made by the school as to how much merit aid is being offered with admission.
I know that was definitely an issue with our child’s list. Some of the schools on the list were affordable without waiting to hear how merit would play out (because it was a rubric of merit to stats) and some schools had a range of merit offered but it depended on being in the top% of each years applicants to know if you would be given the highest possible award, or it depended on an additional application screening (merit award weekends, interviews, etc).
Another factor that can come into play is if the schools under consideration allow stacking of merit and need based aid. Plenty of my daughter’s friends have gotten accepted to schools with merit but don’t yet have their financial need award offer yet.
NPCs are wonderful and I am glad they are available, but they don’t tell the whole story, especially if you are chasing merit money.
NPCs are wonderful and I am glad they are available, but they don’t tell the whole story, especially if you are chasing merit money.
@beebee3 - I agree with this. Nothing at all wrong with applying to a school with hope that you will get top merit and nothing wrong with declining the offer if they can not meet your need. If we had not taken the risk an applied to DS09 college even though we felt that we could not afford it, we would never have known and he would not have attended or graduated.
The NPC still gives useful information in this case. The student knows that admission will not be sufficient; s/he needs a large enough merit scholarship in addition. Depending on the difficulty of getting the merit scholarship, it can move the college to a more difficult category (e.g. instead of safety, likely, or match, it can be a reach because the needed scholarship is a reach).
I think my kid must be from Pluto. He did the college selection totally differently than anyone else we know, and anyone described here on cc.
To the OP’s question…my kid made the unpopular decision, but prior to The application phase. Not an unpopular decision in his high school (kids turn down t20 schools all the time for our flagship), but in our household. We were fortunate that cost was not a barrier, and we were the idiots pushing him to consider highly ranked schools. He easily eliminated all of them which had his major, with the exception of one Ivy which he fell a bit in love with.
The visits were only valuable in his being able to assess the type of student the school seems to look for. He had zero interest in dorms, food, etc. as long as there was an ice rink somewhere on it around campus, he was fine. What he did care about was what he would/could learn at the school. So his criteria were the details of the program (engjneering), the specific disciplines of the faculty, the scholarly contributions of the faculty and the types of multi-institutional grants the labs were participating in. He emailed graduate students to learn about how the more active faculty were heading with their research. He read the most recent literature for all of the relevant faculty. There were a few very prestigious schools which had a high percentage of faculty who hadn’t published in 10 years. They were easy for him to eliminate.
So…in the end, my son developed his own ranking system, I guess, and picked the schools which were the best using his criteria. Only 3 he felt had what he wanted, and one was our flagship. He saw now reason to not go there. He applied EA and that was that.
Both my sons attended the “less obvious” choice in colleges. They went for fit over name after some serious consideration and conversation about merit packages, opportunities, etc. One of my sons came up with a spreadsheet of criteria, how each one ranked, and how important each was to him. The other wrestled til the night of May 1st between his top two and chose based on the philosophical way classes were taught.
They each had some great choices, and there really were no bad decisions because both invested a lot of time and energy into creating a list that fit.
Both had some “what if…” but it was less about the school than personal growth stuff.
With tuition rates where they are now, money would have been a much larger part of the discussion. One turned down a full COA scholarship, but went to a school that gave him decent merit $. The other had merit at two schools, but it wasn’t enough to change the game.
At the time, we were near full pay with one, and got FA with two – but we had planned for this and were lucky that life, despite complications, worked. We were also clear with them that we couldn’t help with grad school, down payment or car if they chose a pricey school. That didn’t change their decision making process.
Honestly to me, all this is worth a lot. We looked at some far places because DD thought she needed to go far but let me tell you close (and under budget) is nice! At just under two hours it is easy to move her in and out, easy to get there in an emergency, easy to go see her theatre performances. No layovers or delays or changing of plane tickets. She comes home every few weeks but it has not hampered her making friends or getting involved on campus. She’s very social and likes being able to keep close with both college people and home people.
One of my very favorite former posters had a kid who turned down Yale because they would have been full pay there. Kid went to a great smaller school on basically a full ride…and then went to Medical School at…Yale.
D’s friend and the val at her HS turned down Vandy and others of that caliber for a full ride at an OOS public. It was quite common in her class for the top students not to even apply to the Ivies because they give no merit $. Many more tried for Vandy, Rice, etc… where there was at least a small shot at merit scholarships.
This might be happening to us, but DS is the one driving the decision. It’s not a financial thing, in fact the safety might end up being the more expensive option, but the fit just seems better to him at the safety. I’m not sure how I feel about him going that route yet.
Yes, I am saying that we never ran the NPC on this school because it was a last minute addition at the advise of one of DS09’s teachers who was disturbed that we were not applying to any Ivys and made the suggestion. He was my first and honestly I had no knowledge and found my way through the process as best I could. With DD20 we have an amazing college counselor at her school who has held our hands every step of the way and always made herself available.
We turned down Vanderbilt and Rice because of the ridiculous pricing, around $300K for 4 years for our younger son, who will graduate Summa Cum Laude from Michigan Engineering in April. We ended up paying around $65K total, thanks to a prepaid tuition program we bought 20 years ago, so all we had to cover was room, board and books. He paid for his incidentals with a summer job. He will graduate debt free, which will allow him to do a non-profit gap year before going to grad school. That would not have been possible with debt. Staying in-state was the right decision, and even he agreed after his initial disappointment. He had a great experience at a top 10 engineering program.
Not on the Ivy level, but yes, all three kids ended up choosing the school that had the best program/best financials combo for them (including grad school for 2), and it wasn’t always the most prestigious one. They’re all happy with where they’ve landed several years out.
@Sarrip Your question makes me think back 18 years ago to my siblings (twins) who got into 10 top 20 schools, but ended up selecting a non-flagship state school’s full ride scholarship. I remember them dealing with people who could not understand their decision, especially when my family had the money to afford those big name schools. My siblings made the decision independently that our parents had done enough financially and that the expense was not worth it. They have never looked back or wondered what if and both ended up receiving STEM PhDs from one of those top ranked schools.
The ~275K that was saved/reinvested during that time has ended up changing what retirement means for our parents and the wealth creation of our family.
Wait until April when there is a slew of posts discussing full pay at Top school vs full ride at state or lower ranked school.
There is no popular/unpopular decision, you got to do what’s best for the student and family.
There is a reason why Duke, Vandy etc give full rides for HYPSM level students.
With the exception of financial reasons, I am not clear on why the parents would be making the choice for the student. If there were schools the parents would not pay for, no application should have been made to that school.