Did you support the Vietnam War?

gianscolere1 · January 31, 2005, 5:19pm

Hi, I’m doing a project on the anti-Vietnam War movement and would like to interview (via email) people who were either pro- or anti-war, but I’m especially interested in hearing from people who supported the war at any time in their lives. So far, I have interviewed 10 anti-war activists but not a single person on the pro-war side. I’m afraid my bibliography will come across as biased. Still, I welcome responses from either side, so please feel free to let your voice be heard.

If interested, please send me a PM with your email address and your role in the Vietnam War. I will ask you 3 questions to which your responses can be casual and brief.

Thanks in advance for your willingness to help out with my project.

Gian

backhandgrip · January 31, 2005, 10:13pm

Well, in my day many folks passively accepted the war.Many folks simply supported the war becasue LBJ was the president. You have to remember at this time there was a tremendous fear of communism. There was a cold war, a great fear of Russia.
I knew many boys drafted, and many terrified they may be drafted. I dated one guy who was drafted and got all kinds of battle medals and then lost all direction in his life after he was discharged. He sired a child out of wedlock, worked a blue collar job and smoked pot in his spare time. Then he walked into a recruiter’s office and they found a job for him teaching remedial English at West Point. Bright guy. He told me he missed the order of the millitary. He got his graduate degrees in the millitary. The millitary is a band of brothers .They find enormous support among each other.

NJres · February 1, 2005, 2:54pm

I distinctly remember being in favor of the Vietnam war when I was in 8th grade. I remember the class voting, raising hands - most were in favor. Back then my presumption was that my government does the right thing so therefor the war must be the right thing. As I got older (and wiser?) and closer to draft age, my view slowly shifted. I figured that the war had been going on for so long with no positive results it must be a bad idea after all. By the time I was a sophomore in college, student deferments had been eliminated and I had a very low draft number. At this point I was quite strongly opposed to the war!! I was determined to avoid being drafted, so after “missing” my first scheduled physical I went to the 2nd one carrying a letter from my cardiologist. At the same time I was negotiating with a Navy recruiter on campus to enter a flight training program. When I returned to campus waiting to schedule an appointment with the Army cardiologist I received a telegram from Selective Service. Nixon had ended the draft.

Yes, my view on the War was definitely changed when it became my ass on the line.

emeraldkity4 · February 1, 2005, 3:29pm

I wore a POW bracelet ( which I mailed back when my soldier was released) but I did not support the war. I was 10 in 1967, but fairly aware of “get out of Vietnam” sentiments and read several articles and books supporting that side

backhandgrip · February 1, 2005, 4:51pm

Another thing, Nixon is seen in a very bad light these days. I can tell you, I WAS VERY GRATEFUL Nixon got us out. He got us out.
Domino theory, that was what it was called back then. Communism was going to ‘take over the world’- Korea never really ended, there was a truce there and incidents from time to time, and the thought was if s Viet Nam falls, so goes the rest of Asia. And remember Mao. China was a formidable Communist state then, very fearful people.

gianscolere1 · February 1, 2005, 5:31pm

thanks for the responses thus far. how would you like me to cite you?

A PBS Video mentioned the anti-communist sentiment back then, and two of my interviewees also mentioned it. I suppose it was a convincing enough reason for people to support the war initially. Also, another interviewee mentioned the youth movements going on worldwide, including the Mao Guard in China. this is something i’ll have to research further.

here are some of the interview questions i came up with. you can pick any number of them to answer, or you can create your own question and answer it.

-How did the anti-war movement affect US policy and the government’s attitude towards the war? (this one is hard to measure)

-How do you think the anti-Vietnam movement was different, if indeed it was different, from other anti-war/peace/isolationist movements- ie. for World War I, World War II, Korean War, and so forth? Why do you think that war dissenters turned out in larger numbers to protest against the Vietnam War, whereas previous anti-war movements did not witness as much activity?

-How did other social movements during the 60s (ie. the Civil Rights Movement, Women’s, Environmental, Free Speech) influence the anti-Vietnam War Movement- if you believe there was any influence- and in return, how did the anti-Vietnam War Movement influence other social movements?

-What are the similarities/differences between the anti-Vietnam War Movement and the anti-Iraq War Movement going on today? Does the Vietnam War remind you of the current Iraq War?

First-hand accounts are crucial to my research, not only because my bibliography will be scrutinized but also because hearing from people who lived through the War can provide original insights that i can never get from any secondary source. Once again, thank you.

Gian

backhandgrip · February 1, 2005, 6:14pm

<ol>
<li>In the early years there was no anti-war movement. People knew generally how to avoid the war. For example, my brother joined the Reserves.(So did George Bush)You could avoid being sent to Viet Nam by joining the Reserves or joining services that were not being called. In the neighborhood it went like this,- join the Reserves or get married. Then they started taking married men (or so that fear was there, I forget), so the thought was get married and have a child.( Birth control was not advanced like today so getting married meant having children anyway) I do not think the anti-war movement affected policy at all, other than the fact LBJ was not relected.At this time George Mc Govern ran for President on the peace ticket and he did not even obtain the Democratic nomination. Barry Goldwater did, and Goldwater was seen as a segregationist- remember the peace movement ran concurrantly with the civil rights movement.</li>
</ol>

2.I do not think the Viet Nam anti war movement was different than any other draft problem. There were terrible draft riots during the Civil War. There was more patriotism in the U.S. during WW1 and 2, people were less educated and afraid to be put in prison, and Hitler was commonly seen as a madman attacking Europe.I feel more folks turned out to protest Vietnam because large number of U.S.boys, 60,000, were dying and we were losing the war.It was a lost cause. (Just my opinion)

<ol>
<li>Personlly don’t really think movements were entertwined. (sp!) More educated people tended to support Civil Rights, young people supported the Peace Movements-
Folk singers sang at both! (Hey, where are the folk singers today!!!) A troulbe maker was anyone getting arrested, either cause.</li>
</ol>

4.No similarities yet in my opinion.- No draft, no youth threatened with draft yet.Debatable philosophy about why the war is being waged (for me, it’s oil- for congress it was weapons of mass destruction) Vietnam was about stopping Communism. Iraq does not remind me of Vietnam EXCEPT it’s a war and it’s terrible .

Good luck Gianni-

backhandgrip · February 1, 2005, 6:27pm

Oh, first hand account,- neighborhood kid came back from Vietnam and went ‘down the corner’ to ‘hang out’ with the old gang wearing his military uniform.He was beat up by the crowd there, ‘hippi types’ with dirty jeans and long hair, the ‘gang’ was now pot smoking too - He went home , put away his uniform and never wore it around the neighborhood again. The neighborhood had changed. (Did not happen to me or my brother but someone we knew.)

fundingfather · February 1, 2005, 7:10pm

This is very wrong - Goldwater was a Republican and he ran in 1964 before the war revved up. And he was not a segregationist. George McGovern did indeed run for president on the Democratic ticket in 1972.

If you want to get a very detailed account from someone who obviously supported the war and addresses some of your questions, read this (I found it very interesting).

<a href=“Air Force in Vietnam -”>Air Force in Vietnam -;

Note that he lays out in pretty significant detail statistics and facts to counter backhandgrip’s assertion that we were “losing” the war.

Elleneast · February 1, 2005, 8:52pm

My Dad was most definitely a hawk and not afraid to say so… if Dad thought something you can bet that his expectation was that the entire family feel the same way. For the most part his views were in agreement with those in power so as a youngster, who was I to question?

I went to a conservative public high school in New Jersey (How conservative you ask?..George Wallace won the mock election in 1972.) I recall only one girl who was willing to speak out against the Vietnam War. I suppose that my parents could be thanked for doing such a good job of protecting me but in reality I was a self-absorbed twit who wasn’t terribly aware of anything beyond my own little town. I watched Dan Rather on the news but it just didn’t sink in.

I remember as a young girl being terribly concerned that my older brother would have to serve. My parents went to great lengths to keep him out of the army after he finished college. They attempted unsuccessfully to use his childhood asthma and some minor problems that he had with his feet as a teenager. Even in my adolescent oblivion I was aware of the hypocrisy when my father kept trying to pull strings to keep his son out of the army. My brother ended up getting number 222 in the lottery for the draft. That year our area only sent boys with numbers through 221. After all of the maneuvering by my parents, he ended up not going because of blind luck.

I vividly recollect being in my boyfriend’s room at school some years later on the day the draft ended. It was a huge deal because he was due to go down for his physical the next day.

I wish that I had been mature enough at that age to think about the state of the world. I would love to meet that lone activist from my high school now. She must have been pretty special…not necessarily because of what she believed but because she cared enough to believe passionately in something.

backhandgrip · February 1, 2005, 9:34pm

fundingfather;I can understand you correcting me on details I have forgotten , however, the author of this thread ASKED FOR MY OPINION AND SEVERAL QUESTIONS ,which I was willing to share, and not send him somewhere else.

I forgot some of the details. Now, who of us our age can remember all the details!!In fact at dinner I was speaking with husband about this and trying to remember who ran when. Goldwater vs Johnson '64, -Nixon vs Humphrey '68 - Mc Govern vs Nixon '72. Is this right?
And about Goldwater being a segregationist, yes, this was how we saw him in our blue collar neighborhood . He was not popular in our neighborhood. (Now I remember childtalk- what kids say on the playground) Yes, and Mc Govern was a dove but lost in a landslide as I recall.

digmedia · February 1, 2005, 9:57pm

I opposed the war in every way I could. Upon graduation, I volunteered with VISTA (sort of an internal peace core back then), and worked with them for a few months, but I had a low draft number and VISTA was not a deferrable job. I attempted to register as a conscientious objector. My draft board opted for a compromise in which I was not classified as a C.O., but able to do alternative service with a two year committment (a job acceptable to the board, with pay no more than a recruit, and I had to move more than 300 miles away) in exchange for not being drafted. In undergraduate school, I was in an anti-war organization (very unusual for Ga. Tech) and participated in the “Inhoguration of Pigasus J. Pig” (anti-war demonstration) at Nixon’s inaugural in DC. When I taught HS, I led an organization called Teachers Against the War, which got me into great trouble at an event run by my graduate school faculty advisor at Univ. of South Florida. At a county-wide meeting of math teachers, I left a recruiting brochure for Teachers Against the War on the auditorium seats. My advisor - not knowing at that moment that I was the one who left them, delivered an invective to the crowd that first apologized then swore to track down the person responsible. I did not finish my graduate work there. When I first applied to the PhD program at Ga Tech, I interviewed with the department chair who assured me that I would be admitted. I moved my family to Atlanta to attend school before I got the rejection letter. The department chair was very apologetic; it seemed that the Dean of Admissions had personally vetoed my application, something that he had the right to do but that had almost never been exercised before. Only with delicate negotiations between the Chair and the Dean was I finally admitted. The only reason that I can think of for the personal veto was my anti-war activities there as an undergrad.

The sixties and early seventies hold a lot of different memories for people, but if you did not live it (or survive it, as I would say), the depth of feelings cannot be conveyed. It was so much more than the clothes or the music or the politics or the demonstrations or the assasinations or the racial changes. It was a strange time in American history, and many of the memories are bitter rather than nostalgic. No history book or film will ever come close to understanding what it was like.

backhandgrip · February 2, 2005, 12:00am

Wow, what a story Digmedia. You have an interesting background. And what you write about the depth of feeling, is as true as true can be. I can see the original poster’s prof. wanting the kids to get personal accounts and opinions for just that reason. It wasn’t just about pot or music or dirty jeans or long hair, there was a true change in the way Americans thought. It was like the breaking away from Ozzi and Harriet, Happy Days, to, The Simpsons. And like Digmedia said about the problems he experienced because of his protesting, there was a terrible stigma attached to being a ‘troublemaker’.

What I don’t remember is, what happend between 69, when Nixon took office for his first term, and 73 when the war was over? Johnson elscalated the war '65-'68 -and Nixon got us out , but I don’t remember the process. And I don’t remember his first term.
And Mc Govern did run for the dem. nomination as a dove in 68 but lost to Humphrey. Mc Carthy , too.

TheDad · February 2, 2005, 12:04am

BHG, as a footnote, I was working on a Senate staff in D.C. in 1974 when Nixon resigned. As a matter of fact, I was giving my Dad a tour of the Capitol when a policeman momentarily barred our way to let Barry Goldwater and John Rhodes (senior GOP House and Senate members) go down the steps to a limousine waiting to take them to the White House to tell Nixon that the jig was up, he had to resign.

The night Nixon did resign, over dinner with my roommate I said, “At least we’ll never have a President this bad again.” I should have remembered that the gods listen and are ever pranksters; I’ve rued those words for the past four years.

Tookie · February 2, 2005, 1:25am

I can still remember sitting down to dinner every night and watching the News and they always showed the North Vietnamese that had been killed. I don’t know if they showed so much of it to make it seem like we were winning or whether they wanted us to get sick of the whole thing. BTW, I still have my POW bracelet.

calmom · February 2, 2005, 2:10am

Nixon escalated the war and initiated a secret, massive bombing campaign in Cambodia, beginning in spring of 1969. In 1970, after a coup deposing Prince Sihanouk (who had fallen out of favor with the US), Nixon decided to invade Cambodia, announcing the actions in a televised speech on April 30, 1970. This sparked massive protests – hundreds of universities were shut down as thousands protested. Students protesters were gunned down at Kent State and Jackson State colleges. Before the week was over nearly 100,000 protesters had converged upon the White House. Congress passed a law forbidding Nixon from taking further action in Cambodia. The troops were withdrawn, but bombing continued.

Nixon also escalated bombing in Vietnam, with a massive Christmas bombing campaign. In 1971, South Vietnamese forces invaded Laos. In 1972, the US mined Haiphong Harbor and intensified bombing of North Vietnam.

In 1973 a peace treaty was signed betwen the US, South Vietnam & North Vietnam. Congress passed a law banning bombing of Cambodia and military expenditurese anywhere in Indochina, and passed the War Powers Act, requiring the President to consult Congress before committing troops.

Nixon did not end the war. US involvement ended by act of Congress.

momrath · February 2, 2005, 3:32am

I was in college during most of the Viet Nam war and was violently opposed to it. Michigan had an active and organized anti-war movement. Everyone knew someone who doing something crazy to avoid the draft – the simplest route being staying in school, the more extreme being going to Canada, faking suicide, becoming a conscientious objector. We were passionately and undeniably sure we were right.

Now, thirty-five years and a mountain of travel and reading later, my feelings are quite mixed. Basically, I see that the situation was not black and white and that many wrong decisions were made for the right reasons. In retrospect, I can say that I wish we had tried harder to win. I wish the South Vietnamese had had the will and cultural resources to win.

I have been involved in Asia for 25 years and now live in Southeast Asia. Having seen the success of democratic countries like Thailand, Taiwan and Korea (and recently Indonesia) compared to the stilted economic progress of communist countries like North Korea, Burma and Viet Nam, I would encourage democracy every time. China is somewhat of an exception because although a one-party system, the party has focused heavily on exports which has fueled the economy, but socially the people have paid a price.

Viet Nam has recently come out of Communist isolation and has rejoined the world economy. Being granted normal trade relations with the US a few years back was a major motivator. When I first traveled there in 1991, just before normalization, I was shocked and horrified by the level of poverty both in the country side and in the cities. Worse than anything I had seen in India or China. I think this economic decline could have been prevented had the country not become communist, but that preventing the communist takeover was beyond the ability of the United States at that time.

Just a few words on each of your questions. These are all PhD topics and are very complex – and emotional – even 35 years later. I think Digmedia said it very succinctly “The depth of feeling cannot be conveyed.”

-How did the anti-war movement affect US policy and the government’s attitude towards the war? (this one is hard to measure)

The anti-war movement was HUGELY influential in Nixon’s decision to bring the war to a conclusion, even one as unsatisfactory as our eventual withdrawal was.

-How do you think the anti-Vietnam movement was different, if indeed it was different, from other anti-war/peace/isolationist movements- ie. for World War I, World War II, Korean War, and so forth? Why do you think that war dissenters turned out in larger numbers to protest against the Vietnam War, whereas previous anti-war movements did not witness as much activity?

I wasn’t around during the other wars, but for sure WWI & II were completely different issues. There was very little anti-war sentiment at the time.
Korea, as you may know, was never really a declared war. Fighting in Korea was “far away” and didn’t enter in the American consciousness as a day to day concern. Viet Nam struck a cord because it seemed so futile and unnecessary.

-How did other social movements during the 60s (ie. the Civil Rights Movement, Women’s, Environmental, Free Speech) influence the anti-Vietnam War Movement- if you believe there was any influence- and in return, how did the anti-Vietnam War Movement influence other social movements?

All of these movements are interrelated. The civil rights movement preceded the war, but Viet Nam was the first time that the military was fully racially integrated – with mixed success. African Americans benefited from the opportunity but also died in greatest numbers because they were less able to avoid the draft. Viet Nam became THE issue that the baby boomers on fire with revolutionary ideas – like free-speech, free-love, feminism – latched onto with a passion.

-What are the similarities/differences between the anti-Vietnam War Movement and the anti-Iraq War Movement going on today? Does the Vietnam War remind you of the current Iraq War?

Many people who remember the anti-war movement of the 60’s and 70’s see Iraq as an opportunity to become again passionately involved with a moral cause. I see a lot of similarity in the movement; however, I see very little similarity in the wars, ideologically or politically. The major similarity is that we are navigating unknown waters, in unfamilar cultures. Mistakes are inevitable.

mootmom · February 2, 2005, 4:03am

A few tidbits from the era…

– I voted in my first Presidential election in 1972 and was a rabid McGovern supporter. The election got me involved politically for the first time, canvassing for local candidates as well as for McGovern. Although I lived in NJ at the time, I fervently wished I was from MA so I could honestly sport one of those great bumper stickers: “DON’T BLAME ME, I’M FROM MASSACHUSETTS” (the only state to go for McGovern in that election).

– The anti-war marches, rallies, and teach-ins were known as “Moratoriums”. That’s a bit of a misuse of the word, except in the sense that there was a moratorium on other activity which stopped while the discussions ensued. In my head, the environmental and anti-war and early feminist movements are all intertwined in many ways, as progressive causes. The civil rights movement was earlier and Dr. King helped set the stage for many of the best elements of the anti-war movement.

– I was at my summer job driving an ice cream truck the day Nixon stepped down. One of the guys on my regular route came running out to the truck to shout the good news; I gave away free ice cream for the rest of the route and celebrated that night.

calmom, you are completely correct, Nixon did not end the war. He happened to be President at the time of the peace treaty but could not be said to have enabled it.

And momrath, you are so right: “navigating unknown waters, in unfamiliar cultures. Mistakes are inevitable.” I am afraid.

calmom · February 2, 2005, 4:52am

Momrath, with all due respect, it is a gross oversimplification to characterize some of the countries you list as “democracies” and to attribute degree of poverty to communism. For example, Thailand is not a “democracy”, but a constitutional monarchy, currently headed by the longest-reigning monarch in the world. The first elected prime minister took office in 1988, and was overthrown by military coup 3 years later, in 1991. Basically, since then there has been a rather rocky series of elections and succession of various prime ministers, with a new consitution implemented in 1997 following the collapse of the government due to economic crisis & corruption. Democracy?? Maybe … but certainly not a stable one.

You cannot possibly ignore the devestation that was wrought on Vietnam through the war, with the bombing and defoliation, and loss of life — nor can you ignore the fact that once the Communists came to power, Vietnam was cutoff from Western trade for 20 years. This is not a defense of Communism - merely pointing out that the US managed to physically destroy the country and kill off a lot of the people before leaving it to Ho Chi Minh’s forces … and we certainly didn’t lend a helping hand afterward.

If any one factor is significant in terms of the economic health of a country, it is probably that of trade with the west and the US, at least in the 20th century. That is why, as you noted, China is economically stronger - the one thing that Nixon did do that was significant in his administration was to normalize relations with China.

momrath · February 2, 2005, 5:00am

Calmom, I’m not going to argue against the value of free-trade since that’s what I do 24/7 but I will argue that in Asia the countries with Communist governments have not developed economically as the democracies have (or for that matter the benign dictatorships like Singapore or Malaysia). Thailand is not perfect – what democracy is – but it is a multi-party system. The royal family, although revered, has no political power and the prime minister is elected by the people.

Did you support the Vietnam War?

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