Did your child financially mature in college?

Parent Cafe
1

<p>Through time, with my 2nd child, she has had a lot of high ideas, on our dime. We are not wealthy, and are on a tight budget. I have done without a lot to save up for college for my children. We have made a lot of sacrifices. Despite the fact that I do not even own 1 pair of decent dress shoes (I have a pair of old tennis shoes and a pair of sandals and a pair of very old and embarrassing black flats that go with everything, but the heals are partially broken, to give an idea), my daughter has always had everything, from her music lessons to her many fees for her many activities. In fact, over the last year, her activities have been getting cut back because we realized she is not at all grateful to how much we do not have, but still give her so much. We do not go in to debt for this, we just do without.</p>

<p>I like to think she is coming around. One issue was that she had several majors she planned to earn, even though it was going to take 5-6 years. She was good and great with the multiple majors, because she wanted to really enjoy college and experience it. She also planned to study abroad multiple places. We brought her back to Earth on this. We told her she can study abroad if she earns scholarship for it, or it at least does not cost us more than we will be paying otherwise. Fine. And the multiple majors, we had to disappoint her and tell her we pay for 1 degree. If she can get 5 majors in the same time as one, great. Otherwise, she needs to pay for the additional time for the additional majors. These were not majors that were compatible with each other, so they would take extra time. And in some cases, they were multiple degrees, not just multiple majors…such as a BA, BS, and a BFA. She has come around on this and all is fine, so far. She knows we will not budge on paying for extra years while she becomes a professional student. She seems to be fine with this now.</p>

<p>But, another problem is (and my issue is that problems do keep coming up) that she has picked a variety of student living situations that she wants to try out. She wants to live in the student apartments, the student suites, the foreign language house, and she will be in a freshman dorm the first year. She has had trouble finding a summer job (which is the norm around here) but has managed to find something for a short term thing. The short term thing is great. So I suggested she apply to be an RA, which she would love to do she says. But now, she realizes if she is an RA, she won’t be able to live in the apartments or the suites. Something has to give. Her solution? She simply won’t become an RA. Afterall, she is looking forward to trying out all the living possibilities while in college.</p>

<p>I sit here and think about how much I worked when I was in college to pay my bills. And how I never ever could have, or would have, selected a far more expensive option just for the experience of it. I could never imagine giving up something like being an RA, because I simply wanted to “experience” the college apartments as well as the dorm suites. I now that becoming an RA is not a guarantee, I just am shocked she would say she cannot even apply for it because she wants to live in all the different housing options. It seems so flakey, and it really is her reason.</p>

<p>I guess I am just shocked that I was always so responsible with money, then my own daughter-money is just an after thought. Is this just a maturity issue and she will grow out of it? Or is this a personality issue and it will always be like this? Her siblings, not even the older one, have never been like this.</p>

2

<p>I said the multiple majors would take 5-6 years, but reality, probably longer. But she has moved on from that. I just wanted to clarify that point.</p>

3

<p>I think there can be wildly different attitudes about money and it can even happen in families. A parent may be frugal and have a child where money flows through their fingertips like sand…or a husband and wife can be very different. I personally have 3 kids with different attitudes, one is a huge saver, one saves an average amount and one is a spendo. The spendo never has two pennies to his name. It’s always apparent to me when kids come on with parents who make a very good upper middle income salary but have nothing saved, while other start their paragraphs with “I’ve been saving since D or S was born.” Your D is who she is - you can educate, point out inconsistencies, even beg, but I’ve come to believe that attitude toward money just is something that can vary from person to person even within the same growing up environment. </p>

4

<p>It sounds like your daughter is in la-la land, and you aren’t very eager to bring her down to Earth. My parents sacrificed a LOT for me, but there were always really clear rules (e.g. college tuition payments end four years after I graduate from high school; summer classes, extra classes, etc. were on me, and I was to live in the dorms if at all possible, and I had to work for my spending money). </p>

<p>I suggest that you repeat as often as needed, “That’s nice; pay for it yourself. We are only paying $X.” </p>

<p>

But who is paying for her to live in one of those fancy apartments? Her? No, you - which is why some of this lies on your shoulders. “Hon, I love you, but I’m not going to continue to wear broken-down shoes so that you can live the high life. Take the RA-ship or pay for housing yourself.” </p>

5

<p>Just tell her clearly what you can afford/are willing to provide. If you can’t give her 5 years of college, or rent for a particular kind of housing, don’t, and make sure she knows what your limits are instead of letting her test them constantly. If she’s your dependent, you’re in control here. Don’t offer her options and then resent her for taking them. Kids dream big these days. It may be naive, but it’s hardly a character flaw. If the money is not there, it’s not there, and reality will bring your D back to earth eventually.</p>

<p>Re the RA thing: not everyone is suited to being an RA. It’s a lot of interruptions and responsibility. There are other ways to make money in college if needed. </p>

<p>I think people become “financially mature” when they leave college/mom and dad and try to live on their own; when they realize they have $20 in the bank account and it has to last a week; when they need to pay rent, utilities, gas and food so there is no recreational shopping or going out. People learn these lessons when they have to, and not before. I don’t believe young adults learn financial discipline by watching their parents go without, as long as the money keeps flowing their way. </p>

6

<p>Why do you treat yourself so poorly and your daughter so well? I don’t believe any family member should have less than others. When my kids were little, I never ate their left overs. They didn’t get the first dip on food and we got what they didn’t want (Oh, my kid is so picky with food, we want to make he/she picked out what she wanted first). At the same time, we also didn’t treat ourselves better than our kids either. If we went out to eat, they ate the same food as us (adult menu since they were 6 or 7). Growing up, my kids were given a limit on spend (allowance) and what we expected of them in school (their job). Why wouldn’t you have a conversation with your D about how many years of college and how much you are willing to pay each year, then let her figure out how many degrees she could get? </p>

<p>At the same time, your daughter could just be thinking out loud. She is going off to college, why should she dream about going abroad, living at different kind of housing or take as many different courses as possible? When I was young, I used to think about different places I would travel to, sky was the limit. Just because your D wants to do all of those things, doesn’t mean you need to make it happen and I bet you that she knows it.</p>

7

<p>I agree that families should treat all members equally. No one should get more goodies than the others. Recently I’ve been talking with two mothers who have 20-something daughters about to be married. They are going all out on the weddings. Expensive gowns, lavish buffets, flowers, the works. Tens of thousands of dollars. Then in the next breath, we talk about our college age kids and they are saying how much the college bound kid will have to take out in student loans. Really?!! How does that kid feel when they see tens of thousands being spent on a sibling for a one-day party? It’s not how I’d spend my money that is for sure.</p>

8

<p>

</p>

<p>Perhaps this may be part of the problem – she has not had the life experience of having to be aware of financial limits on her activities and desires.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>I agree. Though it may be a harder lesson for her to learn as she goes to college rather than having internalized it over the years of growing up.</p>

9

<p>My two older kids grew up in the same house with the same parents and later same stepparents. One has always been a saver, the other a spender, though reality hitting her in the face on her own has helped bring that under control! It sounds like you took the story of “the Giving Tree” to heart-you gave your kids everything they wanted and kept nothing for yourself, and wonder why your D still wants it all. </p>

<p>But-it also sounds like she has many interests and many talents and if she really wants something, may be able to find a way to do. My youngest is like that. She’s too young for a job but is saving money through babysitting and selling her talents like hair styling and will use that for a summer program she wants to do but is out of our budget. Some kids like to have many balls in the air.</p>

<p>I agree with the others that it’s time for a heart-to-heart with your D about financial realities. Then go buy yourself some shoes!</p>

10

<p>I don’t think you are doing your D any favors by enabling or indulging her interests if the family really can’t afford it. The music lessons and all the extras are very nice- but if you’ve created an illusion for your D that these things don’t involve sacrifices and trade-offs, you have set her up for a not-so-nice adulthood.</p>

<p>I don’t agree that kids magically “get it” when they’re on their own. I’ve had 20-somethings working for me in my company who have had to raid the petty cash drawer before they’ve left on a business trip. At my insistence. I don’t believe it is safe to get on an airplane to travel 500 miles with $8 in your wallet and a balance of $50 in your checking account/ATM. I know what these folks make (I’m the boss) and boy, these kids really enjoy their lives. They don’t have a financial cushion. They live paycheck to paycheck. If they arrive in Chicago at midnight at the car service doesn’t show up they’d be walking from O’Hare to the loop because they don’t have enough cash to pay for a cab. And these are young people making very nice, enviable salaries in the real world. People buy homes and raise kids on these kinds of salaries- and they often don’t have a penny to their name.</p>

<p>You could say it’s educational debt and yes, many of them have loans. But they also have gym memberships, plus the extra fees for a high end spin class or climbing wall, plus entry fees for marathons and bike races, fantastic clothes and incredible travel- Costa Rica is popular right now, and whenever business takes them to SF or Boston they are always happy to spend an extra day sampling the restaurants and the fun bars. Their parents NEVER said no to them- and now they never say no to themselves. Whether it’s a cute bag (most adult women I know get buy with two- one for work and one for dress- and the dress bag is probably from 20 years ago), the latest in phone/computer technology, or just their extra-curricular activities- there is a hard core group of young professionals who deny themselves nothing.</p>

<p>So I have no answers for you, except that nodding up and down when your D says she doesn’t want to be an RA isn’t going to get you far. Maybe try saying, “We have X to spend per year on your education and your living expenses. We feel so fortunate to be able to contribute X. When X runs out you’ll need Plan B”.</p>

11

<p>I’ve been lucky that neither of my kids were big spenders. The older one spends more on toys now that he’s on his own and earning a good income. Younger one is just naturally frugal - sometimes we have to encourage to spend more. </p>

<p>It sounds like you’ve really spoiled your kid. It’s a shame because I don’t think her attitudes are going to be easy to unlearn. Still you need to be clear:</p>

<p>1.You can pay for four years of college and not one penny more</p>

<p>2.If there are different rooming options tell her what your budget for room and board is. She doesn’t have to be an RA, believe me it’s not for everyone, but she may need to find other ways to pay for more expensive housing options. How are you going to feel when she suggests an off campus apartment?</p>

<p>3.It sounds like you’ve already told her the study abroad rules - at some colleges it may actually cost less to be abroad - it was for our son in a non-Tufts program, though it had the disadvantage that his courses only appear as P/F on his Tufts transcript even though he got mostly A’s. </p>

<ol>
<li>I suggest you tell her now what you will pay for and what you expect to come out of her savings or earnings. Some parents pay for books and cell-phones (via family plans), but not for entertainment. Others want the kids to cover all the incidentals.</li>
</ol>

12

<p>

</p>

<p>Well, there’s always the $5 subway ride.</p>

13

<p>

</p>

<p>Perhaps let her make her own choices within the stated budget (and whatever she earns from work to top it off). Note that at some schools, off-campus living is often less expensive than the campus dorms. Of course, if she has luxury tastes, that might be a lesson for her to learn about budgeting.</p>

14

<p>You’ve worked hard to help get her this far, but you’ve still got some work to do. When she gets to college, think about how you’re going to set up her budget. If you are providing spending money, think about whether you want to provide it weekly, monthly, or by the semester. Weekly is safer, but by the semester might help her learn important life lessons about what happens when you spend all your money. Look at some of the old threads on CC and think about how much you want to provide, and how much she will have to provide. </p>

<p>DS is a mega saver, I keep wanting to buy him clothes, but he probably can afford them but just won’t. DD is not a saver, and found that when she had to give up her part time job she also had to cut back on spending - but she got down to under five bucks in her account before she stopped. Your DD will need to learn, and college is a pretty safe place to do that if she is on a freshman meal plan. She may not have much fun, but she won’t starve.</p>

15

<p>Here is what we told our kids.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>We were participating in funding college for four years ONLY. Any summer classes, or extra classes or terms would be on their dime. We expected them to complete ONE degree major in four years.</p></li>
<li><p>We expected our kids to earn all of their own spending money. They earned it, and they managed it. We did not give them money for any discretionary spending. We also asked that they pay for books except for their first term.</p></li>
</ol>

16

<p>The first year of my middle daughter’s undergrad was a time for her to feel her oats and enjoy her independence . She partied , but made the Dean’s list. Her second year was even wilder in some ways because she lived off campus, again keeping her grades up. At the end of her second year, she got her first co-op and worked in the health care field. This was what became her time of maturing and taking life seriously. The job became her number one priority, followed by the beginning of her passion for running and training for marathons. This was her turning point and she has never looked back . I don’t think it was that easy for her to become the non-party girl and VP of her sorority , but she made some positive changes in not only her personal life, but also as a mentor for the younger girls in her sorority as well as younger students in her major. I am very, very proud of her ( could you tell ) :)</p>

17

<p>I’d suggest you tell your D the budget she has to work with, buy yourself decent shoes and other things and let your D do without. You do NOT do her favors by indulging in everything she desires while depriving yourself. If she wants all of these experiences and expenses, she can fund them herself via a job.</p>

18

<p>I agree with a lot of the posters. Here’s what we did with our kids:

  1. Parents will fund 4 years of college. Both kids took out subsidized Stafford loans to help out.
  2. Housing choices must be equal to or less than “average” double room on campus.
  3. Spending money and summer programs must be paid for by kid
  4. Parents will pay for books, two trips home (Christmas and summer), prescriptions and cell phone
  5. Parents will pay for study abroad if it doesn’t cost more than regular semester (D went to Prague and paid the extra fee herself)</p>

<p>One kid has worked in the summers to earn spending money. The other is working during the school year so that he can go to a summer program in Italy this summer. He also has a “job” house sitting the remainder of the summer.</p>

<p>Did they become more financially responsible? Older one has always been responsible with money. She’s graduating in two weeks with low paying job, so we’ll see how she does. Younger one is OK with money (when it’s HIS money). He does seem to charge more to his “emergency” credit card than his sister ever did. We did explain that pizza was never an emergency. But he went out and got a job on his own, competed for and one a couple more scholarships during the school year (this is his first year). So, I “think” he’s becoming more responsible. </p>

<p>Good luck to the OP and D! They do grow up. </p>

<p>Oh, D did have to pay her own sorority dues too! Those add up.</p>

19

<p>Its not a matter of whether she had matured n college. ITs whether you’ve continued to enable her irresponsible spending behaviors.</p>

20

<p>Imkh, no advice from me. My children all were very good about spending, demands (few) and seemed to be very unspoiled by just about every measure …until they left college. That’s when it became clear that DH and I had not worked well with them and informed them, taught them how to budget, how to scrimp, all of those things. And they picked up zilch, actually in the negative literally on their own. It’s been a very tough go for them, and it’s painful to me as I do love them dearly and have no idea how to go forward even after years of counseling about this among other matters. I guess you put one foot in front of the other in the right direction and hope all goes well. THings often do not. </p>

<p>One of my closest friends from years ago sound just like you. She could have written your post. They were strapped always but nothing but the best for the children, and their oldest was a wonderful, talented girl who took the best advantages and joys from all opportunities so you WANTED to give to her. I so wished my kids were more like her in that they were more blase and needed some pushing and didn’t seek opportunities or information. When it came to college time, she did all of the homework with great gusto and came up with a great program at a great school with everything so wonderful…except for the price. They really could not afford it. But how could they say “no” to this perky, enthusiastic, hardworking talented dynamo with her heart set on this who researched it and came up with that opportunity as the best of the best. I did argue against it because I truly KNEW they could not afford this if anything went awry. But to no avail,and I do think it hurt the friendship that I out and out said my piece. And I wish I were wrong. I so wish I were wrong.</p>

<p>She had a wonderful 5 years in college, double major, honors, took every opportunity, internship, trip, EVERY thing you could think about. She did have the quintessential college experience. But she dropped the professional program that was the only redeeming financial thing about her choice in that job prospects and wages fo those who got that degree were good, and came out with a philosophy type major with some other major, and could not find a job. To be fair, it was probably the worst year for her to be looking. It was when things actually did hit nadir. But the problem was that she and her mother were in for it with over $90K in loans that needed to be repaid, some of the private ones that were out for their pound of flesh, blood and all. They now owe close to a quarter million and my friend is financially ruined. Can’t get funding for her business, lost her house, is trying to get out of the loan repayment but has been turned down, and basically her credit is in tatters as is her DD who still can’t find more than part time employment They aren’t even making the interest payments of their loans. It’s a grave situation. And I think the young woman plunged deeper yet into debt as she “invested in herself” in an effort to find work that paid but did not find it. True story that I’ve told a number of times here, and it still causes me pain as the mother is still a dear friend of mine.</p>

<p>My kids? I hope they have learned. If they have, it was a slow process for them. I have not enabled much at all, nowhere near the extent of their follies, but it has not been an easy path at all. There are times that if you at all can, you do intervene. I know some who lost their kids when some intervention might have prevented it.</p>