Didn't Live Up To Your School

Parent Cafe
41

I went to my state U and my husband went to Stanford. He had loans; I did not. We both got into good graduate schools. We met when I was employed at his workplace.

There’s always a little sigh on his part when the alumni magazine comes and he sees all of the folks that went the Silicon Valley route and retired wealthy by age 40.

I am still idealistic enough that I want my kids to have a heady, expansive, intellectual experience in college that will mold them into capable, autonomous adults, and which will provide good memories and lasting friendships for the rest of their lives. That’s success, as far as I’m concerned.

42

I agree with slackermom. I don’t think it’s a competition and there’s no need to “maximize” your schooling by attempting to make the most money.

43

Sure – but it sure would be interesting to ask parents and students how they define a successful outcome from the given schools as they are striving for admission – and check back later to see whether (1) they ended up where they expected to on that “success continuum”, whatever that means to them – and it might never have meant financial success from the start, (2) if so, in retrospect do they think the school was essential to that success, (3) does their later definition of success (say, 20 years later) match the one they went into the college search with, and (4) do they think that a different college choice might have led to a MORE successful outcome in either their entering-college definition of success or their long-term (later in life) definition of success? So many students and parents are just nuts on the prestige hunt.

44

“There’s always a little sigh on his part when the alumni magazine comes and he sees all of the folks that went the Silicon Valley route and retired wealthy by age 40.”

@mamaedefamilia:

That is actually an interesting quote, but there is another side to that. There was a great book written several years ago called “What do I want to do with my life?”, and it talked about those who strive to make their fortune early so they can retire at X…and what the guy found was that in so many cases, a large majority, didn’t happen. People will get onto the fast track at something work hard, do everything they can to make the goal, and when they do…they find they are addicted to the pace, they are addicted to the power or the game itself, so they end up going on like that.

The other thing is I am sure the magazine features all the successes in silicon valley among Stanford grads, but that also represents people who got their MBA when they were already pretty successful (lots of execs go back for that), and the other side is how many didn’t make it? For all the silicon valley pot of gold, there are a lot more failures than successes, these days in ap hell, often the fortunes are paper, someone is called well off, then the ap never makes its goal of going public or being acquired, and the paper wealth is gone:). There were numbers of that, the success rate isn’t that high with new ventures, and a lot of ‘successful’ ones die after a whle, and paper fortunes disappear…

45

The startup head at one of my earliest startup jobs was a FSA graduate and former military officer who ended up getting embroiled in some legal and ethical troubles after it was found he misappropriated resources from a local university to supply and run the startup.

Things came to a head not too long after I was brought on as a new employee and became so bad he ended up having to leave his church as the investigation also revealed he lied to the congregation to get additional funding. He was, however, extremely effective at putting on a believable act of being highly ethical and responsible entrepreneur to the point he fooled many investors…including several congregants with Ivy/elite U undergrad/grad degrees.

Thankfully, I was able to jump ship and find another startup position quickly.

My engineer uncle was saddled with a Harvard engineering graduate secretary/clerk placed in that position because he was the “idiot nephew” of one of the most influential senior engineering executives and the other senior executives figured placing him as my uncle’s secretary/clerk was where he could do the least amount of damage after previous debacles in the core engineering and more peripheral sales/marketing divisions. Uncle ended up being stuck with him as his secretary for a decade before a change in senior leadership finally made it possible to terminate that secretary’s employment with the firm.

Heh…sounds like he did what a smart-alecky college classmate did to poke fun at the resume/CV process when he posted a “joke resume” listing accomplishments such as:

1980 - Nearly managed to corner the silver market through innovative investment strategies.

1980-1988 Created and implemented a multi-pronged strategy to issue billions of dollars worth of legally dubious investments through investment representatives like Ivan Boesky, Michael Milken, etc.

1988 - Captained the Exxon Valdez right into a reef resulting in one of the worst oil spills in US history

1988-1992 - Set back the music world by producing and releasing NKOTB’s “The Right Stuff”, Vanilla Ice’s “To The Extreme”, and Milli Vanilli to the horrors of parents and music lovers worldwide.

Mid-'90s - Set Bill Clinton up on a blind date with an intern. Set intern up on a friendship with Linda Tripp.

1998 - Horrified millions of parents and tasteful music listeners by producing and releasing Aqua’s Barbie Girl and Spice Girls’ “Wannabe”…

46

I had an hourly employee ask me… “If you’re so smart, how come you’re not rich?”
I said…
I have a job that pays all my bills, I live 10 minutes from work, have money in the bank, and I’m home by five. That’s rich in my book. Upon hearing this, the grey-haired coworker looked over and said 'He’s right."

Not letting it go, the fellow said… “What would you do if one day I showed up, big as you please in a stretch limousine and wearing fancy clothes?”
Before I could stop myself, I said “That hat looks funny on you, and your a terrible driver!”

The old guy couldn’t stop himself from laughing.

47

In my view–it is someone like Ted Kaczynski (aka the Unibomber) who doesnt live up (whatever that measure is) to his school. K was a child prodigy and went to Harvard at 16 and then got a PhD from the University of Michigan. After that he embarked on a career in academia (assistant professor at age 25 at UC-Berkeley). Two years later he resigned and went to live in the woods and we all know the rest if the story.

48

Intparent–I don’t know what to tell you–I told my kids, one at very good LAC, one at an Ivy: “go get a good education.” I had zero expectations except I’d like them to be self-supporting. They are–not sure what different definition of success you are looking for. Neither makes much money, but they are good people with good friends, doing good things in the world.

49

@elmimino - I had a similar thing happen to me in lab once. Back when I did early-stage research for a pharma company, I used to give tours to pharmacy students; they’d come by the lab, I’d talk about what we did there, yada yada, answer some questions, see you later.

I mentioned once that in my 20-year career I’d worked on two different compounds that had been approved by the FDA and had made it to the market…and if you know anything about pharma research, you’d know that’s pretty amazing. Most of my colleagues never worked on an FDA-approved drug, even after 30 years at the bench.

One girl on the tour looked shocked and said to me, “Wow! What does it feel like to work so hard and still be such a failure?”

Yowza.

50

I don’t at all think that money defines success. But I wonder about the students/families who undertake loads of debt to prepare for a profession that pays very little. Example, a student goes $200,000 in debt to prepare for a job that pays $40,000 a year without a lot of anticipate raises…servicing the debt will be life-altering.

51

When my kids were in preschool, I was chatting with a woman around my age (who also had preschool age kids) at a party. She asked me about the small home-based business I had just started and then said to me “so how does it feel to be wasting your Princeton degree?”

I was too stunned to answer her but in the last 15 years I’ve thought of a lot of great comebacks. I still see her around town every now and again and pretend I don’t know who she is. I really don’t feel the need to have any future conversations with her.

In all honesty, her comment deeply upset me. Either I’ve gotten used to being seen as a failure or I’ve matured enough in the intervening years to realize that my definition of success (work I enjoy, a wonderful family, deep friendships and service to my church and community) is all that really matters. But her comment still bugs me.

52

Her comment was extraordinarily rude and inappropriate.

53

Well… that tells you what SOME people think should be the outcome of getting into a prestigious school. I think most posters on this thread don’t agree. Wonder what that parent will say if their own little snowflake for one of the thousands of possible reasons doesn’t reach the corporate and financial heights that mother thinks they should? If I were you I would take some satisfaction that a life focused solely on that definition of success seems pretty empty…

I am also a graduate of Ross (like my brother). I feel like I could have climbed the corporate ladder successfully (and my clients keep offering me full time jobs where I could go do that if I wanted to) – but I like having a balance of time with my kids, time to do stuff I like to do, a somewhat flexible schedule, and making a decent enough living to make tuition payments and support myself. I suppose by the standards of what they are trying to prepare you for at Ross, and what some of my classmates have achieved, I am not what they would call a success. They aren’t going to give me a write-up in the alumni magazine. :wink: I have never made over $200K per year, and honestly don’t want to put in what it would take to do so. Now… I am reading the book “Becoming Steve Jobs” right now, and was wondering this morning where I would be if I had moved to the Silicon Valley (I was a CS person, such as they were in the early 80s) and put the go-go years of my early career into one of those companies. I worked crazy hours for a consulting company during those years – if I had done it at Apple or Intel or someplace like that, maybe I would be sipping umbrella drinks on a beach someplace right now. But I watch the kids out here so desperate to get into finance or a top business school, and or T14 law, and I think – “Really? You want to devote that much of your life to work for most of your career?”

54

I was one of 2 kids from our large family to go out of state for undergrad (tho I was nearly fully funded via need and merit awards). I went to an excellent, well-ranked law school which again was nearly fully funded via merit and need-based awards).

I did work full-time in my field through after S was born. I then stayed at home to help run the PTA and be active in our kids’ lives. Since then, I’ve been working at various jobs, including some that have been quite prestigious, most recently started a health-related non-profit that I’ve been running for 10 years.

We have more than enough money to meet all our needs and many of our wants. Could I have done “more” with my skills and education? Honestly, I have no idea, as it is the road that was not chosen, like the Robert Frost poem.

My kids both graduated from an expensive private college that they enjoyed and feel they got a good education at. S has a job he enjoys and a part-time hobby that nets more than his job. D still has to improve her health do she can hold ANY job–she continues to be under treatment for chronic health issues. I don’t feel either of them “wasted” their college.

H went to local flagship U for 7 years before finally getting a bachelor’s degree and eventually landing a job with the federal govt that he loved for 45 years.

Among all of us, I can’t say or feel that any of us “aren’t living up to our Us.”

55

Your acquaintance was the loser, not you. I’m glad you didn’t give her the time of day.

56

Although I have now graduated from the school PTA and booster clubs, the well-educated volunteer workforce always impressed me. When it was time to elect next year’s treasurer, it was always “Ok, who is a CPA?” Need to revise the bylaws? Call on the corporate attorney. Need to plan the fundraiser? Find the mom who has planned events professionally.

57

That’s pretty freaky; that book has been on my library request list for about a month and it finally came in yesterday. Picked it up today. Liking it a lot so far. :slight_smile:

58

The whole you only get success if you go to an elite school things is simply hype, among other things, there may be a correlation between not doing well and going to those schools. For one thing, to have success in the real world, you need to be able to take risks, take chances, be willing to fail, and the kids who often are heading for these schools have often growing up with the idea that any mistakes you make, anything that isn’t perfect, will hurt you…which is the opposite of being an entrepeneur. Likewise, a lot of getting into elite colleges is about stats, about GPA and test scores and such, and the focus on getting good numbers may not necessarily correlate to doing well in real life…add to that and the attitude some kids have, that coming out of an elite school they are ‘entitled’ to success, and it may actually work against them, depending on who they are as people and the way they view things. And yep, often the guy who went to a state school, was kind of party hearty- frat boy type, ends up building a company from scratch. The guy who founded my company, on the other hand, went to an elite school (well, okay, it was not an ivy, it was MIT), but he also had the entrepeneurial background from his father, who was a self made person, and he said that what he did in school had very little to do with what he did in business, in the things he needed to be successful…

There are a ton of things that lead to success, one of the things that has been talked about recently is how more than a few of the kids coming out of the elite schools find they have a hard time moving up in a company, as managers, because they hadn’t learned the soft skills, the interpersonal skills, the team management/leading skills, in part because they were so focused on ‘tangible results’ their whole lives, they lost out on the other things. 20 years ago when I was finishing my master’s degree they talked about that, that school learning (even then) had so far divurged from the real world, and with the mania over going to the ‘right school’, and the mentality around that, I wonder if it has only gotten worse…

Note it is not the schools, but rather the mentality of those attempting to go there and how they view risk. Zuckerberg went to Harvard and was willing to take a chance on a new idea, others have done the same thing, but if your whole life you have been told taking risks and the risk of failure is the road to ‘being a loser’, you aren’t going to achieve much. Most successful business people have had some notable failures, typical entrepeneurs have 5 or 6 failures behind them before they hit it, so to speak.

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60

I am one of those parents who sometimes kinda think/wish my kids could/should be doing better given their school. All went to top notch schools. It is a fault of mine that I struggle with, I must admit. And before any of you kindly tell me I am wrong, many before you have done so.

I guess I struggle because of all those Christmas card letters that come with cards talking about how their kids are in med school or helping fight poverty for undernourished populations. Never mind that one of your kids leading costar in theater growing up is now in Hamilton winning Grammy’s and definitely will be winning Tony’s . And there is also all of what you guys write in the various threads.

Again, I know, do not chastise me. I know it is being jealous and petty.

I need to accept that my kids are happy. Part of my problem is I am not sure they are. S, oldest, is living at home working in a dead end job. ( Physics, math major at a very good LAC) However, he is president of the board of our local non-profit community theater, regularly participates in their productions, is a member of an a cepella group and sings in our church choir. He has been involved with his current girlfriend for 2 1/2 years. However, his last pay raise was 13 cents per hour. REALLY! And, as I said, he still lives at home. Will admit, he is being treated for depression and I am proud of his musical talent.

D1 is very, very successful by any standards, especially for someone in her mid to late 20’s. But her career is an area that has become vilified in the last few years. She works for a bank in finance. Occupy Wall Street, many movies have made it seem all of these people are greedy, deceitful, lying criminals. Nothing could be further from the truth as far as D2 and her coworkers are concerned. She is one of the most giving of her time and money philamthropicly than anyone I know and a strong proponent for women in finance and in general… Yet, that didn’t stop many of her former friends and schoolmates from dropping her as a friend on Facebook. But I am very proud of her and all of her accomplishments.

D2 is an Admin. in a finance firm. All of the bad stuff ( she works for a profit making finance firm), none of the rewards ( high income) ! Haha. She has three men she " supports." One graduated from the same Ivy her S did, another graduated from a top school in direct, sports and engineering school wise, competition from my D2’s. The last from a school well ranked below D2’s and the other two men. She has only been working there about 10 months, but she has been told by all three that she is the best admin. they have ever had and as such continually give her more and more work. She is paid decently and supports herself in Boston. I know she is still young, 25, but know she could do better. I wish graduate school. But that is mine and maybe not hers. I do not tell her my wish. ( Admittitedly maybe once or twice).