<p>What are the qualities that distinguish these two schools? I’m interested in anything that would direct a student to apply to one or the other. Do many students apply to both?</p>
<p>You can read the Claremont site for the official descriptions.</p>
<p>The best high-level description I’ve seen on this board is the
[Scooby</a> Doo analogy](<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1161075-post14.html"]Scooby”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1161075-post14.html), but this entire [Pomona</a> thread](<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/pomona-college/1453-relations-other-claremont-colleges.html"]Pomona”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/pomona-college/1453-relations-other-claremont-colleges.html) bears reading.</p>
<p>Claremont McKenna is much better known for praxis oriented business…Pomona is more classic LAC…so all depends what you want…you can easily take classes at the one college while enrolled at the other…they are literally across the street from each other…both great schools…</p>
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<p>As long as the class is not a major requirement and has openings after registration by students in that college.</p>
<p>D2 was only interested in one of them, but I know students who applied to both, and sometimes other of the consortium schools as well.</p>
<p>Agree with the posters above. If possible, I would recommend a student visit the Claremont schools to get a feel for them. After visiting and touring several of the campuses, my son did not like CMC’s pre-professional feel. Not knocking this at all – it was just not for my son. He’s a kind of an intellectual kid who likes to read philosophy, write music, and talk about ideas. On the other hand, he liked both Pomona and Harvey Mudd, was admitted to both, and ended up at Pomona because he decided he wanted more of a liberal arts education. </p>
<p>I don’t think its unusual for a student to apply to both Pomona and CMC, however.</p>
<p>I totally agree that an earnest visit to the 5C should help tremendously. The schools all offer a slightly different vibe. However, it is only one step and a deeper evaluation is warranted. Equally important are an analysis of the depth and strength of faculty and a review of what students write. </p>
<p>The second is important to realize how plentiful the misleading generalizations truly are. And, as much as I hate to single out a post, the above intimation that intellectuals who write music and discuss ideas are not CMC’s type is non-sensical. There are hard-charging future IB bankers, gregarious athletes, bon-vivants, and other stereotyped students on campus. But so are plenty of deep thinkers who know how shallow pseudo-intellectualism can be, and that pretense is not a virtue at CMC.</p>
<p>It is good to remember that below the veneer of pragmatism and focus on economics and government, CMC is built on strong liberal arts foundations.</p>
<p>TBF, xiggi, while CMC’s foundations maybe liberal arts, over half of its student body is biz-econ and typical pre-law major types (govt, poli sci, IR). So, one can only conclude that most courses offered cater to its student body (at least I would hope that CMC’s course meet it student population).</p>
<p>In contrast CMC has a total of 3 grads who majored in VAPA.</p>
<p>(And yes, since we go way back, feel free to single out my post, since I’ve challenged your’s over the years. 
)</p>
<p>Perhaps it was just my tour guide, but I wanted to love CMC and walked out knowing it was not for me. I am typically pretty quiet by nature, and the vibe that the tour guide presented (and that he claimed all of CMC presented) was that CMC was the ‘fun’ school and that everybody had ‘fun’ and that you didn’t need to worry about having ‘fun’ because you would have more ‘fun’ than any of the other 5Cs. Yes, it probably was just the tour guide, but I walked out knowing that I wouldn’t be applying to CMC (despite the speakers forum and other amazing programs). The school also markets itself in stark contrast to the more liberal arts focus of Pomona (and the admissions counselor also said something to the effect of 'we’re not in learning for learning’s sake, but for doing’s sake. We leave that to some of the other colleges).</p>
<p>So yes, there are definitely different vibes at each of the 5Cs that should be considered.</p>
<p>BB, I am not sure if your points about the distribution of majors challenge or undermines my post. I disputed the generalization about intellectuals and “ideas” students. Unless one believes that an IR, Econ, or PPE major from CMC is someone unable to discuss ideas or be “intellectually” competent, I see no real reasons to compare the various classes of majors. The LAC foundation of CMC makes it different from the typical ore-professional tracks in business that are the bread and butter at many schools.</p>
<p>Fwiw, when prompted, a CMC student might very well offer this line: “If you label me, you negate me” in answer to a question about defining the differences among the 5Cs. And, walking away, quipping that quoting Kierkegaard is not the sole domain of the southern campus. Football helmet or lacrosse stick notwithstanding! </p>
<p>All in all, this type of debate about intellectualism at various schools is pure unadulterated BS. Be it about the usual suspects in Chicago or elsewhere. The reality is that the subject is almost always about pedantic opinions of pretense and pseudo-intellectualism. At best, it should be about various degrees of smartness and interests. And perhaps the recognition that the dumb jock at a highly selective school is just as mythical as the 17 years old so-called intellectual. All they are is smart young adults.</p>
<p>I agree with visiting each campus is very important. I am not sure that the stereotypes of the schools have remained the same as it was a decade or so ago. My nieces went to Scripps and their descriptions for of the schools seem more dramatic than my daughters current experience. That said, there are still some differences in how the schools approach the student body and what kind of student body class represents the college.
All the schools are great and have much to offer, it is a matter of personal choice and best fit. Make your own judgments.</p>
<p>And Xiggi, I am pretty certain no school likes shallow pseudo-intellectualism whether it is your alma mater or any of the other Claremont colleges. It is a pet peeve of my daughter for certain and these students can be found at any college. The other stereotype is the drinking culture. Parties happen at all the colleges, you can choose to partake or not based on your preferences and is under your control.</p>
<p>To be clear, I completely endorse the notion of reacting to vibes, especially when negative. The first impression is usually right on the money. I have also visited a number of schools where I could not get back to our car fast enough. </p>
<p>What I challenged was the attempts to draw CONCLUSIONS about the schools from those simplistic vibes. A school might not feel good for all the wrong reasons.</p>
<p>My sense is that Pomona could stand alone as a small college if it had to. The other 5c would have to build up some aspects of their curricula to be as well-rounded as Pomona .</p>
<p>I can’t talk to CMC, but we did visit CalTech, Pomona, and Harvey Mudd a few years ago. I liked Pomona, and it had more math/science that I expected. But it’s the trip where DS concluded he wanted a school that offered engineering (even though he was not yet sure if he was going that route). </p>
<p>The Pomona need-based FA seemed one of the best we researched.</p>
<p>To me, CMC seems like a smaller, sunnier version of UPenn. Very pre-professional, but strong all-around, and known for the “work hard/play hard” mantra. Pomona is more like an Amherst or Middlebury, ivory towerish (but obviously better weather!). Also, it is true that Pomona relies less on the consortium aspect than the others. These are just my opinions. My D is going to one of the other 5 C’s in the fall. I love them all :).</p>
<p>Ds2 applied to both, got accepted to both and got great aid packages from both. I’d say on our visit, the stereotypes held up. </p>
<p>Pomona obviously is a first-class LAC. The students seemed quite serious. The admissions office staff was nice but didn’t go out of its way to be helpful. The person leading the info session never introduced himself. I definitely got the vibe that they think they don’t have to try harder. Ds is interested in poli sci. On the day ds was visiting “Pomona” classes by looking in the catalog, the ones he chose ended up being CMC classes. </p>
<p>We had a family friend at CMC, and ds spent the night with him. Ds had the best time. The next day on the official tour, several kids greeted him by name. These were definitely his people. The info session probably was the best one I’ve ever seen between the two kids. The admissions secretary was super-nice, offering us meal tickets, etc.</p>
<p>All the classes he sat in on were interesting, he said, with varying levels of challenge. Remember, all the classes were CMC classes because even with the whole Pomona class schedule from which to choose, the CMC ones are the ones that appealed to him.</p>
<p>I think that most kids who visit will figure out which one is the better fit, but there’s no reason why both wouldn’t be appealing, for various reasons.</p>
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<p>I doubt there are many “deep thinkers” at any school, but particularly at a school which has a strong pre-professional reputation. Why would “deep thinkers” choose to go there?</p>
<p>ihs76: Many students do apply to both, this won’t be counted against you. </p>
<p>My S went to CMC and my niece went to Pomona. They are both great schools and visiting both would be the best way to choose. I’m sure there are many students who could be happy at either school. When I went to my S’s graduation this year it was impressive that all of the students that I met had a plan for next year be it employment related to their major or grad or professional school.</p>
<p>To answer the question about the differences it might help if you described what you are looking for. There are the general perceptions but there are definitely a mix of students both schools.</p>
<p>SoCalDad2: I can’t speak for all “deep thinkers” making the choice, but my S was a philosophy major at CMC and I see him as a “deep thinker” as I would most students choosing this major. He liked the real world focus of CMC. He didn’t apply to Pomona but when I looked at both schools on paper I thought Pomona would have been his preference.</p>
<p>Both schools are VERY different from one another. The only seeming similarity is that they’re among the 2 most selective liberal art colleges located in the same location.</p>
<p>Pomona is an academic powerhouse, with equally top notch departments in arts, sciences, and humanities. As another person pointed out, it is very math and science heavy for a liberal arts college. Claremont McKenna has specialties in economics, politics, government, and policy, as well as strong departments in history, psychology, and mathematics. Nearly 46% of students graduate with a degree in economics from CMC, compared to a little under 10% of Pomona students.</p>
<p>The student vibes are very different. Claremont McKenna has a stereotype, and Pomona does not. CMC students tend to be more work-hard/play-hard, into partying, into the alcohol culture, and more athletic than Pomona students, who tend to be more intellectual and serious (but still laid back compared to east coast LACs). Not to say though that CMC students aren’t serious about their studies, but there is a difference- think of the difference between U’Chicago students and Northwestern students. Socioeconomic and racial diversity at Pomona exceeds CMC’s, and Pomona just seems to have a more uncharacterizable, diverse student body. This is not necessarily a pro- the relative homogeneity of Claremont McKenna’s student body (compared to Pomona) means a more tight-knit community. CMC is more politically diverse than Pomona- it has an equal number of conservatives, moderates, and liberals, while Pomona is overwhelmingly liberal.</p>
<p>CMC students tend to be more pre-professional, whereas Pomona students tend to care more about learning for the sake of learning. An overwhelming amount of Pomona students end up going to graduate school, whereas many CMC students go directly into investment banking or finance after graduating. Both schools provide ample opportunities to connect with internships and research opportunities- it’s just that Pomona’s offerings will be more diverse (especially with a big focus in the sciences and the humanities).</p>
<p>I’ve found CMC’s music and arts culture to be relatively subpar compared to Pomona’s and Scripps, which have vibrant facilities, practice rooms, tons of instruments, and events showcasing these elements. However, athletics are pretty subpar at Pomona- CMS (the joint team) spends almost twice as much on athletics than Pomona does. </p>
<p>Academically, I have taken classes at both schools and have noticed that CMC classes tend to be more practical, while Pomona’s classes tend to be more theoretical. I would say cross-registration is not as easy as it appears, as Pomona and CMC both have a considerable number of classes that they close off to just their students. So don’t think by getting into one you can replicate the experiences of the other. </p>
<p>Quality of life wise, both continually rank among the happiest colleges in the country. I do think that CMC students tend to be a little happier overall, though. It’s hard to tell which student body is more spoiled- CMC gives maid-service and serves tea and chocolate covered strawberries to its students, whereas Pomona students have the most money in the consortium, period, almost 3x more money than every other school in the consortium, combined. I do think, however, that you have to be a particular type of person to fit in at CMC, while just about anyone can fit into Pomona (save bigots and the extremely conservative). </p>
<p>I find the elitist vibe that is often attributed to be an incorrect representation of Pomona. All 5 colleges have admit rates hovering at or below 18% (if you consider the fact that half of the population is closed off from applying to Scripps), so they’re not very far off in terms of admission selectivity. They all have unique quirks and charms to them, and they come together to enhance the experience for everyone. Statistically, Pomona ranks third (ahead of CMC and Mudd) by percentage of classes taken outside of Pomona, so it’s not as “closed off” as some people like to think. (Pg 24 of <a href=“http://www.pitzer.edu/offices/institutional_research/documents/2012_Public%20Dashboard.pdf[/url]”>http://www.pitzer.edu/offices/institutional_research/documents/2012_Public%20Dashboard.pdf</a>).</p>
<p>I will also add that stereotypes and generalizes are to be taken as a grain of truth and depend on individual perspective. I have friends at CMC who never drink or party, those heavily invested in things other than economics, and those who are more interested in theory than in practicality. But for many students, these things are a part of the culture there- whether or not you can deal with it if you don’t exactly fit the mold is really dependent upon you. The same holds for Pomona- I know some Pomona students who fit all the generalizations of a “typical” CMC student, but they love Pomona. How you click upon visiting the schools will confirm things for you.</p>
<p>Here are some extremely strong opinions to both schools (students expressing disappointment with either school). I think it’s just as important to seek flaws as it is to find strengths, and even though these articles may not hold true for you, they do give you a sense of some of the unspoken natures of these complex institutions.</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.claremontportside.com/letter-to-the-editor-requiem-pomonas-toxic-culture/[/url]”>Bringing a Positive Change to Your Community;
<p><a href=“Bringing a Positive Change to Your Community”>Bringing a Positive Change to Your Community;
<p>Thanks for all the info. Very helpful.</p>
<p>We were in Claremont a few years ago when DS was looking at Harvey Mudd (not attending) and walked through all the colleges. Hadn’t known much about them before that. It was an interesting setup and I’ve been curious about them.</p>
<p>Now we are starting to look with DD and wanted to hear about the differences between the two beyond what one can find on websites. We will definitely be visiting but sounds like she’s more Pomona type than CMC from what I’m reading.</p>