Difference in admissions chances for US student living in Germany? [IBDP 41-45 predicted, 1520 SAT, CS or EE major, <$30k/year from parents]

Applying to College
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Hi, I hope you all are doing well.

My situation is somewhat unique, and my school hasn’t given me a lot of advice on how the entire college admissions process works, so I’m referring to here. For context, I’m an IB student in Germany.

Essentially, my situation is that I’m a US citizen applying from Berlin, Germany, but I’m wondering whether when I apply I’ll be put against American students living in the States (as I’m not an international), or other students (citizens or international) applying from Berlin, Germany instead.

My main reason for asking is that my school has pretty much 0 clubs or extracurriculars, so all of my STEM and sports extracurriculars are self-initiated, but pale in comparison to those that American students have, such as robotics clubs, sports teams, etc.

Additionally, my school doesn’t give out awards to anyone, so I’m really worried that I’ll have to compete against American students with long lists of awards like AP Scholar, etc, while I only have a few sports awards and other minor things.

I appreciate any feedback and advice you guys might have! Thanks :slight_smile:

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I can’t answer you but I wouldn’t worry about awards. Many don’t have and fill their slots with things like AP Scholar with… - which quite frankly means little.

What they have - a # of APs with x scores is what means something - and that will be known by the # of tests submitted (combined with GPA).

You want ECs with tenure and impact. You don’t necessarily get an award at work or in your charitable efforts.

Now sure - having an olympic medal or winning a worldwide competitive competition means something - but those folks are few and far between.

So I wouldn’t worry there.

Hope you get advice related to grades, etc. but if you are competitive, I’m sure you’ll be fine.

You might even set up a virtual meeting with an AO at a school or two of interest and speak about your background, grading system at the school you’re at, and how you’re looked at for reassurance.

Good luck.

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Tagging some people with experience or knowledge of your situation.
@skieurope @MYOS1634 @Twoin18

It is my understanding from information shared on this site that you will be compared to students in your region. The AOs will be familiar with the curriculum and opportunities for ECs in your region and will evaluate your application with that in mind. As a US citizen you will have access to federal funds and financial aid not available to international students.

I’m sure more knowledgeable people will chime in.

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You will be evaluated in the context of what was available at your secondary school. This actually happens in the US too–some US secondary schools have radically more resources for advanced classes, competitive activities, and so on than others. Colleges of course understand that and take it into account, and they will do the same for you. In this case, assuming the college in question gets a significant number of International applicants, Admissions will have people familiar with the differences in school norms that you are describing.

And it sounds like you did the exact right thing, you stayed active through your own initiative. I suspect there is actually less of a gap than you are thinking between what you did and what most US kids do, but in any event again colleges will understand why you did what you did.

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We just relocated to UK and my child has been speaking to a few admissions AO’s. On tours while still in the states this summer her former AO told her to reach out to the International AO’s and they updated her contact info accordingly. It’s been a nice excuse to connect with them. They told her she’d be viewed as an international student in terms of admissions and compared against those in the area. I think it’s safe to say you’ll only be viewed in the context of your opportunities available same as it is in states.

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You have American University class of 2025 tagged? Is this a college you plan to apply to? If not, perhaps that tag should be removed

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Oh yes, that was a mistake

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I wouldn’t get hung up on “awards.” Fairly recently, someone made a post on this site referencing awards for some element of the fine arts in relation to Duke. Duke had a line on their website that, unless your award was of a State or National level, they really weren’t that interested. I think the overwhelming majority of school and local district awards carry little weight with highly selective universities.

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We were in a somewhat similar situation, and I don’t think you have anything to worry about. My son (S19) is a US citizen but graduated from an international school in Japan with an IBD. You will not be considered an “international student” (e.g. for financial aid purposes), but schools will be mindful of the fact you’ve been educated overseas and that can be a plus in some ways, as you would bring some additional diversity. It is helpful that the IB curriculum and grading is pretty standardized, and the IBD is well-known and well-respected by US schools, who see it as strong preparation for college. My son’s ECs were also primarily outside school, although he had some community service activities through the IB program. As @isitmayyet mentions, most US colleges have admissions officers with responsibility for different territories, including international regions. You can usually find this information on the school website and figure out who has responsibility for Germany. It would be very natural for you to reach out to the responsible AOs at schools you are interested in and ask whether there will be any admissions events in Berlin or elsewhere in Germany. In our case, our son was able to meet representatives from many US colleges at college fairs in Tokyo and, in some cases, at his school. There is a government-affiliated organization named EducationUSA that sponsors fairs and other activities. I found they have a FB page for Germany, so you may want to take a look at this and reach out to them as well to see if there will be any college fairs in Germany: EducationUSA Germany The events in Japan were really first-rate, with excellent schools participating, and it was a great way to meet and talk with people in a casual setting. (And get credit for showing “demonstrated interest” in the school.) In some cases, the AOs travelled to Japan, in other cases, there were alumni representing the schools. In a couple of cases, my son later visited the schools in the US and was able to reconnect with the people he met in Japan.

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It’s not that unique. You’re an American citizen living abroad. Your application will be read by the admissions officer handling Germany and your grades and activities will be evaluated in that context. Since you’re doing IBDP, admissions officers are very familiar with the rigor of that curriculum. However, you are not subject to any maximum admit number of international students, and are eligible for Federal aid, if applicable

One thing to be cognizant of is that US admissions doesn’t care that the school has no activities on offer. There is no expectation that activities be school sponsored, but there is the expectation of extracurriculars.

Thanks for tagging. It’s helpful for the OP to get advice from people actually familiar with the process.

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You would be considered as a domestic US applicant, but with an international academic record. This is not a particularly unique situation.

Of course, the expectation (or lack thereof) of extracurriculars does vary by university.

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Can you tell us

  • Your HL and SL subjects
  • Any expected/predicted scores that have been released, and/or what total score you expect including ROK, EE, CAS if relevant
  • What you did pre-IBD and what grades you got (German curriculum, GCSEs, sth else…)
  • what you do when you’re not in class (club, sports, volunteering, music, job…)
  • what your parents said your budget is
  • whether you’ve run the NPC on some colleges and whether the result is affordable for your family or whether you qualify for Pell

As a US citizen abroad you are in a very favorable position admissions-wise : you bring cultural diversity but you are eligible for US federal support.
You will be compared to others in Germany and, more broadly, Western Europe, for academics& ECs. However you won’t be in the international pool for financial aid.

Colleges that are good for US citizens abroad: NYU, American University/AU, Dickinson, Kalamazoo, St Olaf.
Colleges that appreciate IBD candidates and encourage their application by giving them a lot of advanced credit : SUNY Binghamton, UMaryland College Park.

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Are they particularly unique in this respect? Many US universities give subject credit and advanced placement for sufficiently high HL scores, of which IBDP students typically have 3-4.

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This varies a lot from school to school. Some schools will only give credit for HL classes, some will only give credit if the grade is a 6 or 7, etc. It’s difficult to count on, as the exam grade isn’t known until quite late in the process. If this is of interest to the OP, almost all schools post clear explanations of their transfer credit policies. Among the schools our S19 considered, the standout in this area was Lawrence University, which will give credit for a 5 or above in HL or SL, up to 48 credits in total.

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Unless they changed this year, they give 8 courses’ worth for a 32, not just one course for 6 or 7 on an HL, max 3 (4 HLs is uncommon and quite difficult).
Often IB students need to take the matching AP test for their SL if they want credit.

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I generally agree with other answers. Your grades and accomplishments and awards and ECs will be compared to others studying in a similar system, but you will be considered an American citizen which will mean that your chances will generally be better compared to an international student.

One issue may be that you will most likely be out of state for all public universities. This could impact the cost of education. Some universities do however provide some financial aid to out of state students.

Your ECs do not need to have anything to do with your high school. They will be interpreted based on what is available to you. Having self-initiated ECs is a good thing.

A tiny handful of very top ranked universities in the US (Harvard, Stanford, MIT, …) are reaches for pretty much anyone (this is assuming that you have not won a Nobel Prize or other major international award and neither parent is the head of state of a medium sized country). There are however a lot of very good universities in the US. You should be fine to get accepted to multiple appropriate universities.

If you want suggestions on where to apply we would need more information, such as what you want in a university, what part of the country you would prefer, how your grades compare to others in the same system (most of us are probably not familiar with IB grading scales), and what you can afford. The last of these, your budget, is an important consideration for schools in the US.

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Here are my classes:
Math AA HL, Physics HL, Chemistry HL, German B SL, Geography SL, and English literature SL.

My predicted score (with TOK ofc): 43-44/45. This is prior to mocks, and realistically I think I can attain a 41-42 at least.

I did IGCSES prior and I got:

Additional maths: A*
Combined and coordinated sciences: AA (double award)
French: A*
German: A*
English literature: A*
Drama: A
English language: A

They don’t do GPA here, but I got maybe 4 Bs in the past 2 years, and the rest were A+s

SAT: 1520, but I’m retaking it in October

Then for ECs I’ve got:

-Nationally ranked powerlifter and powerlifting coach. I’m the Berlin/Brandenburg state champion, and I’m expecting (and hoping) to get ranked at least top 10 in all of Germany in a few months at German nationals.

-Research internship at the Fritz Haber institute with a professor where I helped in the development of some ML models for atomic physics, and I worked with a PhD student.

-Mechanical engineering internship at CERN over the summer.

-Drums for 6+ years. Never played at a concert, but I did teach people who then performed at the annual school concert.

-Founded the CS club and the Engineering club after my school said they couldn’t afford to start either of them.

-Taught the IGCSE additional maths courses to 9th graders every year for the past 1.5 years.

-Teach English to Ukrainian refugees through this online volunteering community I’m a part of.

-Online internship at an AI/ML startup where I interview experts in the field of AI/ML and then report back to the researchers at the company.

-Part of the math society at my school, where I attend extra lectures every month, and I submitted a modfied version of my EE on math/computer science to a student journal.

-Science article writer at my school. One of my essays got me a partial scholarship to an Oxford summer camp.

Budget: I’ll be taking out a loan as my parents can only afford to be about 120K in total for all 4 years of college. I’ll be applying for financial aid as well with FAFSA.

I don’t qualify for Pell or any of those things. My family is upper-middle class.

Maybe useful additional information: I’m aware that race is no longer considered in the application process, but I’m American, German, and Ghanaian by blood so that may possibly be to my advantage?

I’m wholeheartedly aiming for some top 20 colleges (ivies, UCs, Stanford, etc.) but I’m being realistic as well as I know my application is not the strongest.

Hopefully that helps, and again, I’m very grateful for your help :slight_smile:

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An edit to this post: I got 2 A* s in sciences for IGCSE as well, but I mistyped

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Well, I feel vindicated, because in fact those are quite interesting ECs and should be helpful in your applications.

So to be precise, US colleges cannot give any sort of automatic advantage to applicants based on their race/ethnicity.

US colleges can still consider essays and activities related to that individual’s race/ethnicity as long as they are connected to things US colleges are permitted to value, which is a long list. Leadership, determination when overcoming adversity, helping foster connections and learning between people with different backgrounds, interest in other cultures, and on and on.

So this is entirely up to you, but if you feel like your background has led to some interesting experiences that could be connected to such attributes, you are free to include that in your applications, and colleges are free to consider it.

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Many of the colleges with very small admissions percentages have very generous financial aid policies. Have your family run the Net Price Calculator at Princeton and see what it says. If Princeton doesn’t give your family any need-based aid, then it’s unlikely that anyone else will. Perhaps someone like @MYOS1634 or @kelsmom know whether the NPC is likely to be accurate for an American living abroad?

You are limited in the amount of loans that you can take out. You’re limited to $5500 your first year, around $6500 your second year, and then $7500 for your third and fourth years, I believe. So you can only borrow up to about $28k for your undergraduate education.

So right now you’re looking at a $30k/year budget from your family. Will you be applying to any colleges in Germany or elsewhere that are extremely likely admits for you that will fall within the budget? Or are you only wanting to attend college in the U.S.?

To provide suggestions of schools, it’d be helpful to know some more information:

  • What fields of study are you interested in?
  • What size school do you prefer?
  • What size classes do you do best in?
  • How do you feel about Greek life (fraternities/sororities)?
  • How do you feel about significant enthusiasm for intercollegiate sports?
  • Are there states/regions that you prefer or prefer to avoid?
  • Are there any climate concerns (such as the amount of sunlight)?
  • How do you feel about urban/suburban/college town/rural locations?
  • Are there any other interests you’re hoping to pursue in college?
  • Are there any other factors that will play a role in your college decision (like religion or politics)?
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