Well, in a thread about difficulty finding a significant other, where people have discussed women pre-screening dating apps for 6’ males(14.5% of all males), it would seem incels have identified a problem.
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Perhaps a problem among women who use dating apps. Which is NOT everyone. Many people still actually meet at work, in grad school, get set up by their Aunt Tilly, etc.
I would not extrapolate from “what people are looking for on dating apps” to the entire population. I have several friends who have family in India for example-- even though they were born and raised in America, the matchmaker phenomenon (which pretty much ignores height, weight and emphasizes educational attainment and “will the parents get along”) is alive and well.
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My H think arranged marriages would actually be a good thing lol.
We have many friends who grew up with parents who were “matched.” All of said couples had successful marriages. In the current culture marriage is not viewed with the same permanence. Hence young adults are probably more hesitant to commit… either to dating or marriage.
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I’m afraid that arranged marriages might have been “successful” because women weren’t employed, weren’t empowered and had few options.
Nowadays, women are more educated, have more options and are less willing to put up with abuse either physically or emotionally.
The good old days weren’t always the good old days.
Not being in a bad marriage isn’t the worst thing that can happen.
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The “arranged” marriages I know include an orthopedic surgeon (female) married to a chemical engineer; partner in a white shoe law firm (female) married to a CFO in a public company, etc.
These aren’t women who have to stick around because they have no other options. These are successful, highly educated women who were “matched” with men who were both similarly accomplished, AND stated that they would be comfortable with a wife who out-earned them.
The mothers (all still living in India) rotated coming to the US for a few months at a time when the grandchildren were born, and continued that pattern to help raise the kids/augment paid child care which apparently is quite common in India. Your D is a surgeon and has just had a baby? You are on the next flight to wherever-- Vancouver, USA, UK.
I know women “back in the day” had few options if their marriage wasn’t working. But these aren’t the women I’m talking about- they went through the USA dating “scene” until they concluded that there has to be another way… and being married to someone who shares your educational attainment, is comfortable with your ambition, grew up with the same societal expectations… not a bad foundation at least to meet the guy, right?
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I think I’m going to bow out of this conversation. I think my point was misconstrued.
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To add my friends are also from India and the match is a family thing. Everyone had input, and to be honest, until you are actually married one never truly knows their significant other. Taking some of the emotion out can lead to a better partnering.
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Yup. It’s a little hard to hear a savvy, well educated, successful professional say “It was auspicious” (as in- all the Aunties approved and apparently, the various deities signaled their blessing) but hey, it’s competing with “swiping right” so the bar on modern dating can’t be set at a very functional level!
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If y’all have never watched, “Meet the Patels,”you might find it interesting.
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Or Indian Matchmaker (netflix).
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I thought of this thread while reading. I don’t get this way of thinking.
Also, I know one of the people interviewed 
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My dh is in a run group where he greatly increases the average age. Our run group in Florida was all old people like we are.
They do a five mile run on Wednesday nights and then gather at a brewery for beer. He loves it, and his usual pace group is all guys in their late 20s early 30s. So that is who he winds up sitting with for beers. He loves talking to them, and I think they enjoy him as well. They are all single.
A couple of weeks ago, they started talking about dating and dating apps. They hate being on the apps. They would much rather meet women more organically, but they say being on the apps is, “expected.” What dh relayed to me was so depressing. There are so many more men on them than women. They say if you make one, “mistake,” (not sure how that is defined) you are out as the women have ten more guys waiting in the wings. All these young men want to meet someone and have a meaningful relationship. They all have decent jobs and are in good shape. All so discouraged. Ugh. It makes me so sad to think this is what our ds is likely experiencing.
I am all for being particular, but I honestly think women have set unattainable standards. No one ever seems to be good enough. I am certain there are issues women feel as well, but I only see the boys’ side since that is what I have.
It all seems so much like job interviews to me. Very contrived. Very gaming the app system. What a depressing article, @Youdon_tsay
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My single friends (all women… I know single men but we don’t confide in each other) tell me the opposite. The men can be balding, fat, and wearing a ratty T-shirt on a first date but if the woman shows up without professionally done hair or makeup, she’s tagged as “not even trying”. Some of them have even been told “I am usually attracted to women who put more effort into their appearance”. This is told to women who would be considered conventionally attractive in terms of our society’s standards, and not slobs. Maybe not super models, but fit, pretty, and nicely groomed.
And employment? Men can be “between jobs” or “I’m pivoting professionally” or “Covid taught me I need to find better work/life balance so I’m job hunting now for something that works for me”. Women have to strike the very fine line between having a good job (a must, no man wants a gold-digger, even if he’s broke) while not being too ambitious (she needs to put his needs first. What guy wants to be told “I can’t see you this weekend- I’m on call, and since I’m being considered for Chief Resident I’m going to stay after my shift to check in on all my patients”.)
My friends tell me that men are given a LOT of leeway- looks, fitness, varied interests (or just sitting on the couch watching football), handy/loves to cook or can’t stand to do anything household chore related, great job or barely getting by. Women have NO leeway. Must be an 8 or a 9 in looks, must have a good income but not be ambitious, needs to have a lot of friends and interests so the guy knows she’ll be out of the house during basketball/baseball/hockey season, etc.
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I think both things are true. Both groups feel judged and like they aren’t enough. I blame social media.
Today on the Prof G podcast, Scott Galloway said the algorithm has been offering up dating content because of his work with young men and apparently a new trend is that a man is dinged for not sending an Uber for the woman to get her to the date. WTH? Any woman who EXPECTED that would be a hard pass, in my book.
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Wow. I had a friend who had a friend whose son got dumped because working out four times a week wasn’t enough. It needed to be six.
As I wrote, I am sure there are issues both ways. I do focus on the guy side of the equation since I only have a son. And, he doesn’t share much at all. These are just things I read or see on podcasts. And these recent shared perspectives from dh’s young run group friends.
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Here’s an interesting article/podcast. It challenges some of the current narratives and the perspective is from that of an economist.
“If you’re on the internet or just a human being alive today, you’ve heard something along the lines of this narrative: College-educated women refuse to date “down,” and it’s creating a crisis of marriagelessness.
There’s just one problem with this narrative: It’s not true.“
“Joining me today is Benny Goldman. He’s a professor of economics at Cornell and the co-author of a fascinating paper chock-full of narrative violations about the dating and marriage markets. Benny shows that rates of marriage for college-educated women, as they’ve faced difficulties finding a partner at the same education level, have remained relatively stable. How? Because they’re marrying men without college degrees.”
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Saw this on Facebook:
Madonna is almost 70 and her man is 28. Cher is almost 80 and her man is 37.
Ladies don’t stress if you’re single your man hasn’t even been born yet 
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NYT: Can Whitney Wolfe Herd Make Us Love Dating Apps Again?
gift link
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/10/magazine/whitney-wolfe-herd-interview.html?unlocked_article_code=1.G08.ixcn.4uSyJQ6V-7Rk&smid=url-share
A variation on the show “Meet Your Second Wife!”
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My daughter and son are now in their early to mid 20’s and this current state of the dating scene is something that I would have never imagined. Neither of my kids have ever had a boyfriend or girlfriend and quite a few of their closest friends are the same way. For my kids and most of their friends, I am not noticing or hearing of a loneliness “epidemic” as they do lots of group outings, are in grad school, work, and have other activities to focus on, but it is pretty easy to see that my son will have many more appealing options than my daughter when they do start dating. My son’s friend group is full of eligible, attractive, educated, and intelligent women, while my daughter’s friend group has a small finite group of men on that same level.
I don’t really worry about the “endgame” for my kids, because they will find ways to be happy. But I have seen enough older men and women among my family and family friends deal with loneliness as they have aged to see that the “endgame” could be a struggle. But maybe it won’t be a struggle, because technology will continue to evolve and even replace human companionship for some people.
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