Difficulty finding a significant other in 20' and 30's

S2 had a serious GF in HS and it took years to get past that. Tried dating after college (mostly via apps) and nothing really took. S2 met now-DIL on Tinder during the early months of Covid, about 2.5 years after he moved to Ukraine. He was 28, she was 29. She saw through the wild curly hair and scruffy shoes, saw the kindness in him, his cooking ability and that she could wear high heels with him. He’s 6’4", she’s 6 ft – she had found that an obstacle. (Then helped him find a better hairstyle. Some things a mom just can’t do!) This was in Kyiv. They weren’t living together then – she was living with her mom (dad died when she was 9, mom has a common-law husband).

The night the war started he realized he wanted to marry her – he was in Lviv, having read the tea leaves and moved there three weeks before the war started. She had joined him there, but had gone back to Kyiv to try to convince her mom to join them. Got engaged 12/31/22, got married in September '23, three years after they first met.

They both would love to have kids; doing so is complicated in Ukraine right now. She turns 34 next month, and the clock is ticking. S’s job (through a contracting firm funded by USAID) was just terminated, so he’s trying to find something else.

S1 was married briefly after college. Unfortunately, it didn’t work out. Met his current partner of almost nine years at a contra dance event. They’ve been living together about six years. He has talked about kids, but has also said he doesn’t see getting married again. I don’t think she wants to get married, but I don’t know how she feels about kids.

My H had terrible family dynamics. When I was 22, bright-eyed and in love, I thought it was amazing he had gotten through all the cr*p intact. Didn’t see the scars til later. I’m not sure everything my sons learned in our 41+ marriage has been positive, but I do see them acting as full partners in all aspects of their lives with the people they love.

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Also, I wonder if there is a correlated factor here that is not causal. I would think that a greater percentage of those not living together before marriage are more traditional and/or religious in the first place, and either stay married because they have that compatibility in common, and/or believe in sticking it out whether or not the marriage is a happy one. So it may not be that living together in itself is the factor that leads to divorce.

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It’s not always a picnic or happy. But believing you can work things out is a big plus.

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I blame social media a bit too. I feel like “kids these days” see these instagram couples/relationships where everything looks magical and perfect. Life and real relationships are rarely like that. Couples can be romantic and do fun things together and thoughtful things for each other, but a lot of life…is just life. Sometimes boring, sometimes routine, etc. I get worried that this generation expects too much from relationships and set themselves up for disappointment.

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I think this is a profound point.

Both of my grandmothers would have howled with laughter if I asked them what romantic thing my grandfather had done for their various birthdays or anniversaries. Gifts were either non-existent (during the rough patches) or practical- vacuum cleaner, toaster, something else on the household wish list that was too extravagant for an everyday purchase.

Now I see the “promposals” and the elaborate parties and the intense celebration of even trivial occasions and I wonder if it just accelerates the need to constantly be feted for being special. And even the “just us” romantic moments in social media are being documented and scrutinized.

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I tell ds2 that as people get older and more set in their career, habits, friend groups and maybe own a home, they are looking for someone to fit into the lifestyle they already have. There’s no room to grow together and figure things out as you go. He is so concerned with not clipping the wings of his gf, who is three years younger and is living away from home for the first time. He is really conscious of allowing her to do all the things she feels like she needs to do. I know that they are committed to each other, but, to me, it feels like they are both being so cautious that maybe they won’t get off of center. But not my relationship; I just bite my tongue.

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My kids know no one except one very religious friend who did not consider moving in together an essential step before getting engaged. It’s just a given for the young people in my children’s social circle.

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My daughter got married this week to her college boyfriend (on their 10 year ‘anniversary’). Very small wedding and almost all were couples who had met and dated in college (daughter is 28 and most of the guests were 25 to 35 years old). Most went to the same school as D and (now) SIL. Groom has several hs friends who married (one couple at wedding) so he’s sort of the rebel in marrying his ‘recent’ college girlfriend. One women guest just broke up with her fiance who she dated since college and I know she’s worried about establishing her new life when all her college friends are still paired off - that was her life for 10 years! She’s moved to a city close to their college but of course it is all new, with a new job, mostly new friends, and old friends living in the area who are married.

Almost all the couple are engineers, from schools with many more males than females, so maybe when they found a partner they want to stick with them?

Other daughter also married a college boyfriend. They only lived together for a short time as covid happened, he joined the army and she went to grad school That concerned me more than anything else as it had really been a long distance relationship for most of the 6 years. they dated.

Neither daughter ever used a dating app.

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My D (at barely 22) is pretty good at long-term relationships. She began a close friendship with a boy when only in 6th grade that gradually morphed into an old-fashioned sort of sweetheart thing that lasted throughout high school. They hoped to keep it going, but…the typical story of far-flung colleges. Nice, smart kid…he never caused her a moment of pain…but they were too, too young. I wanted her to experience the world.

I visited her in fall of her freshman year in college and took several of her new dorm friends with us to a restaurant. Among them was a sparky young man I just had a feeling about. I just felt he would be the next “one” and I was right, though it took six months or so before they were officially dating. I really like this young man and even though I still think, ideally, she is too young to commit to anyone, I would have been happy enough if it had worked out. He is bright , ambitious and kind and has multiple interests, Alas, he went through a number of personal struggles last fall (don’t want to say too much) and broke up with her this winter. She kind of saw it coming but has been heartbroken nonetheless. Fortunately she has some great apartment-mates, close friends and a strong future career direction to keep her going.

However, I do know she would like to find “her” person soon, even if she doesn’t actually marry for a few years. She tells me she’s a little worried about this, and bemoans the state of dating for people out of college. She would take this former boyfriend back in a heartbeat if, after some time apart to figure things out, they grew back together. She likes stability and having a few good people in her life. An only child and transracial adoptee with little extended family, she really wants a child or two (she has never known what it is like to be biologically related to anyone, though she is close with her dad and with me). We are much older parents and she does fear the idea of being alone in the world. I also know she wants her future children to be able to know their grandparents…(she is 22 and I am almost 68!) She will be going to law school in the fall and knows she will have years of long, grinding work days in which it would be difficult to raise a child. She’s also really dreading being in her late twenties or thirties and having few options except the dreaded dating apps. In other words, she is feeling she doesn’t have the luxury of spending years exploring possibilities in the world, as I did.

I know we say that young men are really struggling, but young women who know they want a stable marriage, biological children and a professional career have a lot to juggle and worry about in ways that young men just don’t.

Increasingly, law schools and graduate business schools, for example, prefer to admit students with a few years of professional work experience under their belts. Law schools have been getting more competitive each year in the last five years or so and prior work experience is becoming an almost expected critical part of the application. GPA and LSAT medians are going up and up as well. I tried to convince my D to get a year or two of work experience before applying, but nope, she wasn’t having it. It is kind of a miracle that she DID get accepted to a great school before even graduating from college, as applications were up nationwide about 20%this year over last year and next year is expected to increase a good bit more, as many federal workers are forced out of their jobs…some of these are projected to apply to law school…but I digress).

I know a good deal of my daughter’s sense of urgency to go straight through is the high-pressure combination of the biological time clock and entering a profession that will take years to train and to reach a level where she can (hopefully) command some flexibility and choices. Young men can take two, three, four, five years to explore jobs, switch careers, go to graduate/professional school later, build a career, find a woman who is a few years younger and become a dad in their late thirties or forties if they wish, and of course, young women who are ambivalent about children (or like me, would be happy to adopt) can take their time.

I am more optimistic about this for her than she is though! She’s a pretty good judge of character, and fortunately, her future law school happens to be on a big campus with a business school next door and lots of other graduate programs. It’s located in a college town that is really all about the university, so everyone won’t be dispersing into an urban jungle or commuter city after classes. I think there will be lots and lots of bright and friendly young adults around who will want to meet others, and ways to meet organically, just as in undergrad. I don’t think she’ll have to worry too much about dating apps for at least the next three years and hopefully, by then, she’ll have found her person.

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My two late 20s sons are both in NYC with a long term partner – I think both women are amazing and terrific!

Older son met his partner in grad school in mid-20s, they’ve been together 3-4 years, have launched their careers and are navigating the tensions between competing professional demands etc. That son had done lots of casual dating in high school and beginning of college, then a couple of serious but not particularly good relationships which he had the self-awareness to move on from. His partner now is amazing and I’m so happy for them.

Other son met his partner on a dating app and they quickly became inseparable. That son had gone through serious high school and college relationships followed by a lot of casual dating after college. As he started looking for something more serious, he deleted, then re-added the apps a few times as the women he met on the apps were mostly looking for fun and no commitment. He and his partner have also navigated some big life changes together and are making it work. She too is amazing and I’m so happy for them.

edited to add – my sons had experience with casual dating and with committed relationships between age 16-25, so perhaps that helped them recognize what made their partner special? I like to think they grew up thinking strong, independent women were the norm and desirable, because that that’s what their mom is. But I also think they kissed a lot of “frogs” along the way and learned from those decisions.

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Haven’t read this thread for a few days. Some very interesting side tracks on it IMO.

  1. Tradwife. Had not heard of this term before. But have to say, if someone is a “tradwife” and is touting this lifestyle on social media as an influencer showing their home decor, baking habits, clothing styles….well guess what, that IS their career, their work life. If there is a check coming in or affiliates sales get them Amazon income, then to me they are a wife or partner who enjoys their home lifestyle and uses that as a way to bring $ resources into their home/family. Influencer IS a job. So is dog walking or being a lawyer, or setting up a lemonade stand if you make $$/resources off of it.

  2. I always think “we” show our age when we blame everything on social media. Come on. How many “perfect” families did we see on tv when we were growing up? LOTS. It probably wasn’t until talk shows like Phil Donahue and such that we learned that dysfunctional families were more commonplace. I see plenty of “not perfect” lifestyle on social media. But like us non-influencers, these people may have the perfect skin - today - but their bedroom closet is a hell hole. And guess what, we often do the same things in our daily lives with friends/neighbors - the front yard is prim and perfect - but what really goes on behind closed doors?

So, back to the OP question - why is it difficult for young adults to date. Is it difficult - or are they just not into doing it until they have lived life a bit? Or is it “difficult” to us, their older family members - but perfectly ok to them!

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I do want to point out that there are still long term married couples who aren’t happily married.

One of my kids dated two! Individuals that had very dysfunctional parents that were both in long term marriages. Both of those partners had very little idea how a healthy relationship works despite being the product of a long term marriage.

Both of my kids are married now. One met his spouse in college and the other on a dating app. I’m not sure I can comment on why dating is harder now. I do think that the pandemic broke a lot of things, dating and relationships might be one.

I hope that both my daughter and my daughter in law stay working and in their careers. They are both very smart, very capable and both I think want to be working parents. Both are married to partners that I think will be very willing parents. Although being an involved parent also means business trips and long hours working.

I was mostly a stay at home parent or had a job, not a career. That definitely took second fiddle to my husbands. My husband was not willing to scale back his career in any way so the burden was on me. What I hope for my children is for them to realize that their career counts but doesn’t rule them. And that there is room for both parties to have a satisfying career. Something I missed out on.

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This feels like a very personal decision. I loved being a stay at home parent and have found it rewarding, I get it isn’t for everyone.

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I agree that it is a personal choice.

I have reasons that I’m not going to get into here because they are personal to the situation.

I also was a stay at home parent and enjoyed it but I also wish I had the opportunity to have a career and have independence of my own.

What I wish for because of life choices I made aren’t anything that I say to them. I keep those thoughts to myself.

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I had both and was able to jump back into lucrative work after my SAH years, but I found being home with our toddler/young son was the happiest time in my life. It was a gift that I felt fortunate to have. Not everyone has this option.

I wonder about this for our DIL. In May, she graduates with her BS, he with his MS, but he will move on to a PhD, so they will be moving to wherever he earns the degree. She will have those few years to get her career started, but then they move to West Point for at least the next five years (probably longer as it’s likely he’ll stay in for 20 by that time) for his research/teaching appointment. The problem is the remoteness of the post. Depending on the career she starts, she may either have a very long commute, the potential for remote work(?), or few/no opportunities. Children are not on their radar, but I wonder if that position will change based on a “window of opportunity?”

Same.

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I think there are many reasons it’s harder to find a mate, but 3 are

      1.There are more choices. It used to be that that the man was the primary earner; many wives didn't work once they had children but if they did it tended to be in a "family friendly" profession like teaching. Finances were joint and men usually controlled them. (A married woman couldn't get a credit card in her own name.) Women were expected to take on all the tasks of running a home, though often men did outdoor tasks like lawn mowing. Families usually ate fairly bland diets--vegetarian, gluten free, etc. weren't a thing. An agreement to marry was almost certainly an agreement to have children. Go back far enough and there wasn't much choice about how many or when.

    Now, these things are negotiated. Will we have children? If we do, how many and when will we try for them? Does gender matter? If we have trouble conceiving, do we want to try IUI or IVF? Donor eggs? A sperm donor? Adopt? If we do have kids, will one of us stay home to care for them, work part time, scale back a career for a 9 to 5 job? If neither stays home, will we use daycare? A nanny? A family member? How will we divide up the household duties. Will we pool our finances or keep them separate?  If we keep them separate, how will we pay for joint expenses? What kind of food will we eat. If you're vegan is it going to bother you if I eat meat? 

     You get my drift. Of course, not all of these will be negotiated before marriage, but it'a better IMO if at least the basics are. 

       2. More people move around. I didn't grow up in one place but many of my cousins did. On one side, they mostly lived in a town of 100,000 people. If you met someone, the odds were that someone in your extended family or social circle knew them or something about them.There were only 3 high schools, for example. I went to high school in the Midwest and most people went off to state U. Even in cities like NYC or Boston, people grew up in certain neighborhoods and went to a finite number of high schools and even, to an extent, a limited number of colleges. In such communities, it was hard for someone to falsify his or her basic identity.  With so much of the population transient, there's less likely to be some connection to someone you meet and there are some real horror stories out there. So people--especially women--are more wary about striking up a conversation with a stranger.
       
       3.There are more platonic friendships between men and women. I think that[s a good thing overall, but...way back when if a guy asked me to go to a movie, it was almost certainly a date. Now, it's not always evident. And, since close friendships between people of the opposite sex were relatively rare, people  didn't worry about ruining a friendship by making an effort to turn a friendship into romance.
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My brother has commuted from Orange County to NYC (Wall Street and Midtown) for 20+ years. Not ideal but doable. Bus or cross the river and Metro North from Garrison.

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When I read the first sentence, I thought you meant Orange County, CA and I was soooo impressed!

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I sometimes wonder if part of the issue these days is simply higher (much higher) expectations. I’m not saying that’s a bad thing, just a reality with benefits and trade-offs.

I’ve read a couple things over the years about the comparable success (versus general married public) of arranged marriages in cultures that do that, even when the participants are living in the US and are fully integrated in our culture. Not just “success” in terms of staying together but of declared happiness or satisfaction after years versus other marriages, on average. I muse (with no hard evidence) whether some of that was different expectations going in and a different commitment level.

I married for love someone I met in college and we’re still together decades later, happily. But I do wonder if we had lived in the app-era if either of us would have swiped left right away or been annoyed any number of shortcomings early on that were enough to go back to the app rather than another date. Instead, the inherent “friction” of finding someone else and starting over probably motivated us to work through minor qualms. By comparison, my 20-something kid has sometimes shared why she is moved on from dates she met online and while I 100% applaud her being selective, the reasons to me personally seem small – I almost feel sorry for the dates who seemed like they were trying but made some small error in judgment. Perhaps the end result will be a great outcome since whoever has staying power will really have passed dozens of invisible tests. And certainly I am for anything that leads to her happiness. But it certainly is not surprising with the easy access to apps and with this generation generally having grown up with a higher sense of self-advocacy and attention to self-needs, that the process will mean it is harder to settle on the right person. Will be curious in 20 years to read about the long term outcomes – does the rate of divorce go meaningfully down? Hope so.

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This was an interesting piece on the same concept @citivas mentions. I don’t think there’s a paywall: Aziz Ansari: Love, Online Dating, Modern Romance and the Internet

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