Dilemma? Or not? (not sure if this is the right forum)

Parent Cafe
1

<p>Since coming to these boards, I have been very open about my personal life and mostly, I don’t regret that (although several times I have been subtly criticized for it, which doesn’t really bother me). Although there is a sort of anonymity afforded by the internet, a few people have taken the initiative to uncover my identity (it really isn’t all that hard, in all truth, considering the detail of my posts). In real life, however, I am a painfully private individual who takes these things very, very seriously. Few people at Yale know very much about me, I’d say about 3 or 4 close peers and my freshman counselor, dean, and master are aware of my family’s financial situation and my homelife (the latter two were unfortunately informed by necessity concerning my healthcare sitation). Anyway, I prefer it this way. I get very upset when I feel my privacy is going to be compromised (even when it’s simply to other officials in the university), it’s a very big deal to me. I’m not ashamed, it’s just the way I was raised.</p>

<p>However, I have shared on these boards my difficulty in acquiring a job. I have applied to numerous jobs through SEO (student employment office) unsuccessfully. I think I’ve mentioned on another thread that I had become so desperate for a job (and so disenchanted with SEO) I gave a random man in the pizza shop my number hoping for a baby sitting job. Although you can never be exactly sure, I am quite confident in the fact that my lack of computer skills is what’s keeping me from these jobs. Whenever I have to list computer programs I’m proficient in, the list is very short because it’s only Microsoft Word. I’ve worked all throughout high school (had four jobs during this period) and was taught to use Excel and other programs but in a very limited capacity in the relation to their utility for the requirements for the position. I am also very technologically-challenged in general, and over time it has only gotten marginally better. I even recruited a teacher from my high school to help me learn Excel proficiently at one point, but apparently something didn’t click because I still don’t feel comfortable using that application.</p>

<p>When I talked about this with my FroCo (short for freshman counselor), she seemed to agree that this was what was in fact holding me back. Then she gave me advice. She told me that when I apply to on-campus jobs, that I should let them know about the specific details my financial situation. She said if I was comfortable she would e-mail them testifying to this and my willingness to work hard. She seem very emphatic that I do this, despite my hesitance.</p>

<p>Of course, I don’t feel entirely comfortable about this, mulling it over in my head. I envision two scenarios: 1) I don’t get the job, and I’m forever humiliated that I exploited myself and my family just to get a job that I wasn’t going to get anyway 2) I get the job, but I have to look every day in the faces of people who only gave me the job because they pitied me and furthermore, they would know much more than I would ever feel comfortable with any stranger knowing. Naturally, I must weigh these two clearly-envisioned scenarios with the ever-present reality that I really do need money. I must also weigh it with the “mommy-factor” (my slang for my mother’s opinion), although she is not here and she doesn’t have to know, I feel her presence looming continuously. I know my mother would be dreadfully humiliated, ashamed, embarrassed (insert appropriate synonym here), etc. if she knew that was what I resorted to doing. Maybe if I could apply to one job mentioning my financial situation it would be okay, but knowing that I had to do that for a whole slew of jobs (which I’d envisioned having to do realistically, in order to make it work) would be too much for her to bear.</p>

<p>On a final note, I had no idea that it was going to be this difficult getting a job. I was under the impression from various sources it would be a piece of cake. It seemed I had no problem finding a job all throughout high school. What’s going on?</p>

<p><em>Thank you for advice in advance, I always glean so much from the posters here</em></p>

2

<p>Candi:</p>

<p>I’m sorry you are having such a difficult time lining up jobs! I can’t believe that all jobs require computer skills. My S found that the SEO was good for posting jobs but not for getting a job. Have you tried to go directly to departments, libraries, etc… What about a proctor’s job for the summer? A young man I once knew paid part of his way in college by cooking for the College Dean a few times a week (or perhaps less often). Is working in a bank or restaurant an option? Good luck to you.</p>

3

<p>Thanks Marite,</p>

<p>It’s basically the sort of jobs I apply for, which are office administrative ass’t positions (or something in a similar vein, which don’t require much standing, lifting, etc.). I have to do this because of my connective tissue disorder, which I’m not currently on medication for (I’m still very upset by the fact that Vioxx was recalled…although Celebrex, which does not work nearly as well for me, is still on the market I fear it is only temporary and am trying to convince my mother to stock up on as much of it as possible). Although being more desperate has me considerably less choosy!</p>

4

<p>Candi:</p>

<p>Do go straight to the folks for whom you would be working. It’s okay to tell them you need the money without feeling you have to go into great details or that you would be abasing yourself. They know that many many students are on financial aid and need to work to earn the money. They may even think up things you could do that they might not have otherwise considered. This includes department administrators, profs, college deans and resident advisors, housing office, etc… Also pay a visit to the financial aid office and any other office you have dealt with and tell them you’re looking for a job. If the summer school has its own administration, see if you can contact someone there. I would also look into the Boston area colleges.</p>

5

<p>Don’t be worried that people will look askance at you because of your finanical situation. People work because they need money. People that hire people know that. So nothing to be ashamed of. Go in and SELL yourself. I am not sure if you are as confident of what you can do as you were in highschool. </p>

<p>This may sound silly, but these are some basic questions:</p>

<p>How do you present yourself- dress, posture, hair- that superficial stuff counts</p>

<p>Do you talk about all the stuff you do- t is amazaing how much young people don’t realize they have done- any club position shows you can work well with others, good grades means you are serious, how long were you in each of your jobs, that show dedication- look at your resume and find things that make you stand out- </p>

<p>Now this may sound odd, but do you discuss your disorder at all, and is it considered a disability? Not sure where to go with that…</p>

<p>Do not worry about what your mom might think…first you don’t need to tell her, and second, you have to take of yourself first, mom’s emotions are not relevant, as an adult you need to let go of her feelings. </p>

<p>I am going to make an assumption here…from your post, it sounds like you are depressed and that may be coming through during your interviews. Put up a brave front. I know its hard, but do what you need to do.</p>

<p>Good luck, and if you would like to send me your resume, I could give you some pointers, that resume is VERY important…</p>

<p>and Marite’s ideas are all good. Go everywhere, see everyone, and do not be embarassed. They have seen lots of students and nothing will shock them, especially your circumstances.</p>

6

<p>ps- you don’t have to be perfect at the computer programs…many people learn as they go…if you know the basics, you will do fine</p>

7

<p>Hello,</p>

<p>I am sorry that you are having this problem, and I wish you well.</p>

<p>Is there a possibility of changing your search strategy in some way, short of taking seemingly drastic steps that you are clearly uncomfortable with? Can your advisor give you a recommendation without mentioning the financial issues? How do you currently decide which jobs to apply for?</p>

<p>In general, I think it is important to avoid doing that with which you are extremely uncomfortable. It is easy for me to say, perhaps, when I am not facing your concerns. But nevertheless I do believe that your peace of mind is very important.</p>

8

<p>I agree that you should let people know about your financial situation. The people who hire students for on campus jobs do this because they want to help out students. Often, frankly, such jobs aren’t even needed at all. They exist to give help to students in financial straits.</p>

<p>I truly doubt that those jobs require extremely advanced knowledge of things like Excel. If you do need to learn certain programs in order to do the jobs, the office where you work can teach you. Believe me: You are smart enough to get into Yale: You are smart enough to learn computer programs for administrative work.</p>

<p>I graduated from Harvard, and when I was in college and grad school, I did a lot of office work on and off campus. Often, I did have to learn technological things such as, for example, how to type from a dictaphone (as you can tell, these were the old days…).</p>

<p>I was able to quickly learn these things, and from what I could tell, my work was fine. Sure, I made some mistakes while learning, but far fewer mistakes than would often be the case if, for example, a non college-bound high school graduate had been in my place.</p>

<p>Please believe me: Since then, I have had to hire office workers, and it is hard to find people who can do the real basics: use correct spelling, grammar, and punctuation even when they are copying other’s work. </p>

<p>It’s also hard to find people with what you’d probably regard as simple common sense and good manners. This includes people who know how to answer a phone with courtesy, how to handle simple problems or who know how to figure out that a call represents an emergency and the boss should be contacted.</p>

<p>I have no question in my mind that you’d be able to do those things making far fewer mistakes than many people who have been formally trained to do such jobs.</p>

<p>Meanwhile, I strongly suggest that you consider how you are presenting yourself in an interview. Emphasize your strengths. For office work, this could be any previous work experience, strong abilities with English (no way that you could have gotten into Yale without that), an interest in the kind of work that the office does, etc. And it is very fine and appropriate to say that you need money.</p>

<p>In the “real world,” one usually doesn’t tell personal things like that in a job interview, but doing work study is not the real world. Please understand that the people who hire on college campuses will choose a needy, hard working student over one who has higher skills but doesn’t need the money as much.</p>

<p>You also will find that the people whom you work for and with in work study jobs can become your friends, mentors, surrogate parents, etc. They do tend to care about students. The type of personal revelations that would be inappropriate in an off campus job are very appropriate with them. </p>

<p>For instance, letting them know if you’re first generation college or have to send money back home, or need money to buy things like books. You can frame this in a way that doesn’t ask for pity, but that lets them know that you truly need the money, so you’ll definitely be responsible and committed to the job. They’d rather hire someone like you than a student who doesn’t need the money who may quit at an inconvenient time.</p>

<p>Best of luck, Candi! Please let us know how things are going, and feel free to PM me. I’m in your corner. :)</p>

9

<p>One last thing, tell your profs, teaching assistants, places where you apply for work study that you are willing to babysit. Let them know about your experience. Good babysitters and students willing to babysit are hard to find! I also would bet that the pay is good. Even in my low cost student city, when I hired student babysitters 8-9 years ago when my kids were young, I paid a minimum of $5 an hour, $20 minimum. </p>

<p>Find out the going rate for sitters in your area, and let people know about your services and how much your charge. Don’t sell yourself cheap either. I bet, too, lots of well off, ambitious parents would love to have their kids babysat by a Yale student.</p>

10

<p>candi - please do not feel embarrassed about your financial position ! Money is NOT something you are or are not. Money is merely something you have, or don’t have. Don’t let it define you, either to yourself or to others.</p>

<p>Second, I agree with some of the other posters. You don’t have to beg for a job, as if you need a prospective employer to do you a favor. Take stock of yourself. What are your strengths? What value do you bring an employer? That’s what you should focus on. When someone asks if you know Excel, the answer might be “yes, I have some experience with Excel and I’ve used it before. While I’m not an Excel expert [smile] I’m certainly know the basics, and would be happy to learn fast if any additional skill level that you require.” Focus on what you bring to the table - don’t focus on what you don’t bring. </p>

<p>Good luck.</p>

11

<p>Candy, the suggestions here are all excellent. I agree with Northstarmom 100%. There is a lot of “make work” at college and you might as well take advantage of it. </p>

<p>Babysitting is always a lucrative job, and if you position it as “homework patrol”, you may get some more leads. My girls made a fortune that way. You offer to organize the kids’ notebooks, set them up with a homework chart, book, organize their time, go over it, get a class list so you can have the kids call and verify assignments. Much less painless for a nonmom to do. My kids’ ears started to hang low when I was the patroller. This sort of “gap” baby sitting–the time between school let out and mom home from work is often needed. </p>

<p>My kids did not get office type jobs in general as they did not seem to pay as much and did not have the flexibility. They tutored, taught music, homework patrolled, gave private sports lessons, worked at restaraunts. The most lucrative jobs tended to be dirty, tough work like bussing tables, clean up, janitorial. It is hard to get clean, desk work that pays well. The other work that my niece did one summer, was as an “organizer”. She organized files, books, cleaned and organized basements, closets,etc. BacK several years ago, she was getting $25 an hour. She undercharged a bit until she got her system down pat and the clientale base established.</p>

12

<p>What about contacting a few temp agencies? <a href=“http://kaiserwhitney.com/[/url]”>http://kaiserwhitney.com/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

13

<p>Candy I don’t have anything to add. Just good wishes & present your wonderful self in a positive way.</p>

<p>LA</p>

14

<p>Candi, I don’t know how limited your job search is by your connective tissue disorder, whether babysitting little ones might require too much lifting and so on, but tutoring or sitting after school with older children may work, and tutors can command a higher pay rate, as well. Waitressing and restaurant work would probably be too much standing and lifting, unless cashiering, in which case sitting on a stool (like a bar stool) shouldn’t make a difference to an employer who values your honesty, people skills, and smarts, though pay may not be high. Bookstore cashiering, likewise.</p>

<p>I am a little confused as to whether you are eligible for work study and if that is part of your aid package. If so, and you are still searching, I can well understand your frustration with the SEO; they OUGHT to be able to help you find employment and may be obligated to do so if it is part of your aid package. But, since that has not worked out thus far, I’d take another tack, at least initially, if the above suggestions on the thread don’t quickly work out. I hear your frustration, and frustration becomes a burden and a stress you don’t need when you have important academics to concern yourself with. You have done admirably well to have worked so hard, academically and at your slew of jobs in high school, to get to Yale. I really think you need a mentor of sorts at Yale, someone who understands and who can listen, suggest, and guide–someone who cares. I know you are a private person. I am too. But you need to make someone who is able to help aware of your difficulties. Someone needs to to know exactly what your hardships are, in order to help. </p>

<p>Your advisor may be most versed in academics, such as what you should take course-wise, so you might go instead to the dean who already knows of your situation somewhat. If he/she is not someone you can talk to or has not in the past seemed helpful, I would take Marite’s suggestion and go to the Financial Aid Office and make an appointment with the head of financial aid, or possibly the person under him/her. If you cannot get an appointment, I would try emailing the head of Financial Aid and requesting an appointment. (Meet with someone as high up in that office as you can, in other words.) When meeting with this person, lay your situation on the line. Tell him/her you would appreciate confidentiality in this matter, and then explain your finances, family circumstances, your job search, your medical limitations. Make yourself a list so that you don’t forget anything, and perhaps even a list for the financial aid person as well. Yale has gotten some flack of late for not being more generous with aid, and is trying to remedy that, so you do have some timing on your side here I think. Emphasize your extensive job search, your willingness to work (but your desire to still have time for your academics), and be sure to explain your experiences with the SEO.</p>

<p>The other thing I might try since you do have physical factors that limit your job options, is to contact the office that helps students with physical disabilities on campus, The Resource Office of Disabilities. They may have resources to help you secure a job on campus that would be suitable. Maybe try emailing the director explaining your condition, the limitations it puts on the work you can do, list what you are able to do, and see if he/she has any suggestions. </p>

<p>Best of luck. I know it will work out!</p>

15

<p>Agree with NorthStarMom’s phenomenal post. </p>

<p>I do think that there are ways to mention that you are on work-study because you really need money (i.e. you aren’t in the situation of someone whose parents earn $100k/year - comfortable but need fin. aid for the kid to go through school) without the gory details. Perhaps even stating your EFC or that you need money for things (books, anything not covered by room, board, or tuition - or medication) would get the same point across. “Hey, look, I’m not one of those kids that has work-study supplementing their fin. aid package as a nice perk - my family really has no money, I’m the first to go to college - and while Yale is very generous with financial aid, I need work study to make ends meet.” </p>

<p>Finish up by emphasizing your willingness to learn new applications and your (albeit limited) experience with old ones. I didn’t know how to email until I got to college (back in the dark ages of 1999), but got an engineering internship the next summer with plenty of computer work. They aren’t expecting miracles - if they were, they would recruit solely among the computer science majors. NorthStarMom is right: if you can get into Yale, you can manage Excel and basic English. From what you’ve shown on this forum, you can also manage responsibility and courtesy. </p>

<p>Good luck. :)</p>

16

<p>Candi–</p>

<p>I’m so sorry you’ve been having a difficult time. I think you’ve been given great advice here, and don’t have much to add, except to echo several of the thoughts already expressed.</p>

<p>As someone who has interviewed and hired many recent college grads for entry-level office jobs, I’d be surprised if advanced computer expertise were required for most positions. Frankly, though I routinely see impressive-looking lists of computer skills on assistants’ resumes, I’ve found that most of them don’t have more than the most basic familiarity with those programs; and I’ve learned not to expect them to be wizards right off the bat. I’m not quite clear on the kinds of office jobs that are available at Yale: If they’re research assistantships, where you need to be able to analyze data, I can see that technical skills might be genuinely necessary. If those are the only–or the best paid or most interesting–jobs available, is there any way to acquire the specific skills that are needed?</p>

<p>I’m also wondering how the application process works. Are you sending out resumes and not hearing back, or are you getting as far as the interview and then not being hired? If it’s the former, I would definitely ask someone you trust to take a look at your resume to make sure it’s presenting all your strengths. (I’m sure you’ve seen it, but the Undergraduate Career Service has an excellent guide with sample resumes and cover letters.) It’s also worth triple-checking for typos or other errors; I am constantly astonished by the mistakes I see in resumes from Ivy graduates.</p>

<p>If interviews haven’t been going so well, perhaps someone could role-play the questions you’re apt to encounter; the more confident and relaxed you seem, the more appealing you’re likely to be to an employer. Again, it may be too obvious to mention, but I see a lot of otherwise impressive job candidates who act a bit too much like students–showing up for interviews late, or in ripped jeans, or chewing gum; or coming unprepared with basic information like current phone numbers for the people they’re giving as references.</p>

<p>As for disclosing your financial situation, I personally am not a big advocate for it; while I certainly think the student employment office should be aware of the issue and should take it very seriously, I agree with Hayden that you don’t need to beg for a job. Moreover, a conversation that makes you uncomfortable might do the same for prospective employers. In the real world (and I’m not convinced that university employers are much different), I believe that most bosses are not so much interested in what they can do for you as in what you can do for them.</p>

<p>I thought the tutoring/“homework patrol” suggestions were terrific; this might be a great way to make some serious money. You might want to check the local newspapers and/or Pennysaver for Help Wanted ads, or invest in a tiny ad of your own offering your services.</p>

<p>Finally, I very much hope that you find a mentor of the kind that Cricket suggests. If there’s anyone–the master or dean or your college, a professor, a TA, a research librarian–who seems at all approachable, it’s worth asking if they might have a few minutes to advise you about your job search. While you don’t necessarily have to go into all the details about your finances, I wouldn’t hesitate to tell such people that you genuinely need the money: Even though it may seem otherwise, not everyone at Yale was born rich, and many people who are now successful were once struggling to find jobs themselves. </p>

<p>Good luck.</p>

17

<p>Hi Candi … good luck with your job search … you’ve received a bunch of great advice so far. The main thing I’d like to add is to be creative in thinking about jobs that might work well for you. The student work-study jobs probably will lead to jobs that a lot of kids are in the pool for and which some are great (research) and some are not so great (cafeteria). In my experience, great opportunities open up when I have proactively sought out non-advertised positions and been a unique applicant. For example, when I went to B-school at the beginning of the academic year I contacted the reps of ten companies sponsoring an academic program on campus and inquired about summer jobs (this was not the regular human resources channel but right to a guy who might be my boss) … and eventually this lead to 3 great job offers. If I think back to when I was in college instead of settling for cleaning dishes at the dining hall I should have gone to the basketball coach (manager or statitician) or to a sports memborlia store (clerk or stock shelves) and seen if I could create a job in an area I really liked. What do you do for fun? Is there anything around Yale that would allow you to be paid to be involved in that activity? Bottom line, it never hurts to ask; all they can do is say no (and since you applied to Yale we know you’re not afraid of any odds!).</p>