Dilemma

Paying for College
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<p><<<
If she got into a super-reach like Stanford/Princeton/etc., I probably would be willing to pay more</p>

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<p>I would NOT tell a child that. It makes it sound as if what you’ll pay is arbitrary, rather than what you can truly afford. How can you later say, “I can only pay $5k per year (or whatever) for Univ X,” when you’re on the record of saying that you’d pay more for S or P? If you can afford to pay more for S or P, then you can afford to pay more for anywhere. Money doesn’t grow on trees. You either have it or you don’t. Don’t play games, your kid won’t believe what you say.</p>

<p>If you can only truly afford X, then that is what you can afford whether it’s HYPS or UVA or Univ X. </p>

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<p>@cptofthehouse‌ I am the NCP. The private schools are asking for my CSS Profile; I will not be acknowledged in the FAFSA.</p>

<p>I have decided I shall fill out the CSS Profile sooner rather than later. That is, I’ll try to get it done (by estimating) by her EA application deadline, instead of waiting until I have my actual W-2 (before the school’s Feb. 2015 deadline). Is there any place on there to list my legal debts (low 5-figures)?</p>

<p>I have told D1 that, once her stepmother has found a new new position, the maximum we can ever contribute is 1/2 the cost of attendance at W&M, and if her stepmother is still out of work we will not be able to contribute anything at all (we will not be able to cover our own household expenses from my income alone). She should be working with her GC to track down and apply for additional scholarships against her expected costs.</p>

<p>I have also told her that when they look at both households’ income, the schools will almost certainly say she has no financial “need” whatsoever. She should be mentally prepared for that.</p>

<p>I have also been considering what form any contribution should take (presuming my wife has found work). The best I could come up with is to set up a bank account in D1’s name from which she can pay her own school expenses. She can pay her tuition on an installment plan, and we would give her a check for our contribution each time she visits home. She will know where that money is coming from. (And I shall thus avoid any interaction with her mother.) At 17, she has an overly developed sense of entitlement, and she really has no conception of just what spending $30k+/year means in the real world. That’s as much as a freaking HOUSE by graduation, in many places.</p>

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<p>Setting up an acct in your daughters name will increase the amount expected to be paid from her family resources.
So I am assuming nothing regarding college expenses was discussed during the divorce proceedings?
Was her interest in continuing education after high school students unexpected?
I admit I am amused by an adult who complains that their child has tastes bigger than their bank account, when said parent until recently had household income of $300,000, yet couldn’t amass any savings to contribute to anticipated college costs.
And no, colleges are not interested in consumer debt.
Perhaps if you were paying out of pocket for an organ transplant or an indigent parent, they would take that into consideration.</p>

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<p>Please don’t make your child beg you for the money or require her to come pick up the check. My father agreed to pay my rent for my senior year in college. It was due on the first of the money. EVERY month I had to call and ask him for it. I didn’t want to pay late. I never pay late. He has a less than stellar credit rating because of paying late. He always acted like it was a big burden and I was taking food from my little brothers - the ones driving a car to school, filling it with gas off parents’ dime, eating just fine.</p>

<p>If you agree to pay, pay. If you don’t want to, don’t. Paying monthly is fine, paying her to pay the school is fine. Just don’t not pay if you promised to pay, even if your child is acting entitled or rude or won’t visit you. If that happens, tell her in advance that you won’t pay for the next year, but don’t cut her off in the middle. Set the terms and follow them.</p>

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<p>Some x-post here.</p>

<p>It’s interesting to get he NCP perspective here- usually, it’s the kids complaining.</p>

<p>But I need to point something out, from my perspective. Many of us depended on need-based aid. (My own income had dropped radically.) And many of us knew, going in, that the amount we thought we could pay would probably be stretched by at least a few thousand. (I mean those of us who had made ourselves as informed as we could.) </p>

<p>I think it would be good to have a gentle conversation with her, first. have the Dad-girl moment, ask why this college, see if the reasons are good. Maybe check the strength of her dept or collateral opportunities- which can matter very much. Maybe it is a good opp for her. We don’t know. Part of relating to our kids at this stage- and building for the future- is talking and listening.</p>

<p>You said you’d be willing to pay half of W&M’s projected costs- which is about $15.5. If Mom kicks in the same, that’s 31k. If DD gets the 20k merit and takes a 5.5k student loan, do you realize the balance would be less than 5k. Would you be willing to pay the addl 2500? </p>

<p>It’s fair to say, I can kick in X, if you get the full 20k. It’s a bit harder to seem to be saying, “I don’t like that school as much as others.” Or we have an expensive home and other bills.</p>

<p>You need to proceed gently. Especially since you’d like a good relationship. </p>

<p>Please don’t take this the wrong way, but: whether your wife finds another lucrative job or not, whether your girl goes to X college or Y, she is still your daughter. </p>

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<p>I don’t believe the issue is what he is willing to pay for college.</p>

<p>It sounds like <em>if</em> it was the right college in his mind, he would pay no problem.</p>

<p>But this is not the right college for her, in his mind. Not that I don’t agree with his conclusion based on what he said.</p>

<p>Yes, set a limit, and then consider talking to her about why she is targeting a school that doesn’t have that great a rep for getting students into careers after they graduate.</p>

<p>I am very leery of engineering schools for my son, as they don’t have enough liberal arts, and I would wonder how much support a non-engineering major would get at an engineering primarily school.</p>

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<p>He hasn’t articulated much about this school. Didn’t say it doesn’t have a great rep for careers after graduation-- did say he feels a tippy top is better in that respect. He said they specialize in engineering, not her interest. But that could leave plenty of other strengths. Most of this convo is about money. </p>

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<p>@emeraldkity4‌ You assume many things that are just plain false. Way to rock the condescending snark, though.</p>

<p>Costs of “a college education, after all available grants, loans, and scholarships are applied,” was discussed. She has automatic full scholarships available at at least two schools (Alabama, Temple). So the cost of a college education after all available scholarships is $0. My using the cost of W&M as a skeleton guideline to work from is me working in good faith in the spirit of the original discussion, when there is no requirement at all. I could be an ass about it and say, “You’ve worked hard, done well, and earned a full scholarship to Alabama. Congratulations! Now use it.” But I’m not that kind of parent.</p>

<p>Setting up the account would be AFTER knowing where she is going to school. There would be nothing set up or funded when finances are being evaluated by the schools, it would simply be an account set up next summer for her to handle her school bills (tuition, dorm, meal plan, textbook purchases, etc.).</p>

<p>No, we never had a household income of $300,000 when the family was unbroken. Nor even $100,000. Nor “until recently.” Her mother decided to divorce when we were both unemployed, and I was in grad school, more than a decade ago. My (current) wife and I bought a house when we were both employed, but her losing her job means there are no longer any non-retirement savings at all at this point (for us, at least; I don’t know what D1’s mother has saved).</p>

<p>I am not even slightly curious as to how much you managed to save when you were constantly being sued, year in and year out, and your spouse lost his/her job. If it was a lot, congratulations. If not, you have my sympathy.</p>

<p>I have no consumer debt to speak of, nor did I ask about consumer debt. I have a mortgage, and legal bills from her mother’s custody litigation. Apparently you would give up all contact with your own child rather than pay to enforce your parental rights. I’m not like you, though; I did not and do not consider abandoning my child to be an option, despite the money it would have saved.</p>

<p>@twoinanddone‌ Thank you, your input was constructive. All terms about who will do what with regard to money, visits, etc., will be clearly worked out and written down in advance, as soon as we know the situation next spring, i.e., wife’s job and what the schools that D1 wants to attend would cost. She won’t have to beg us. I’m very aware of when bills are due. I cannot stand late fees or missing payments. I make sure all the bills are paid, on time, in our house. </p>

<p>In contrast, I am the one who must still contact her mother, every month, to tell her she missed her interest-only payment on the loans I co-signed when we were married (the capitalized interest has grown the balance by 50% over the years). I predict her credit will never be good enough to get a mortgage; in fact, I predict she will never pay back her own student loans. She doesn’t believe she should have to, so she won’t.</p>

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<p>@‌rhandco The school seems to place their engineers in jobs. But D1 doesn’t want to be an engineer, though. She just wants to go to school with engineers.</p>

<p>@lookingforward‌ I’m sure her mother will NOT come up with $15k. I’d be shocked if her mother could come up with $10k. Her CS checks end upon D1’s graduation from HS, and she won’t pay her own loans as it is.</p>

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<p>FCCDAD, ouch. I hope your wife finds a job. It is tough to finally have a high income just about the time the kids go to college so that FA disappears but not have had it all the years prior to be able to save and pay for it. I empathize. And then all the expenses of splitting households even when things are amicable is costly, never mind legal fees.</p>

<p>At some schools you can be an authorized payer on the student account, and there can be more than one authorized payer. This would be most helpful during the first year when your D is in a dorm and almost all costs will be on that account. So even if she doesn’t sign the FERPA waiver, you can still see and handle the financial stuff. In case you are interested in using that option.</p>

<p>Not to be nosy, but does she have extra departmental or outside scholarships at Temple and Bama? I thought the highest at Temple is full tuition and at Bama even the NMF scholarship is only full ride the first year and after that full tuition plus $3500 (plus another $2500 if in eng.) It’s generous, but not quite a full ride. </p>

<p>Will your D work summers and winter breaks to help pay for things like books and incidentals?</p>

<p>Do you know what the your ex’s family plans to contribute and are they likely to really contribute what they promise? Just thinking that despite the seemingly good incomes, the situation seems messy and difficult. If your D is NMSF (just guessing because of the Bama money) then your D should do one of the apps to a true full ride school as a back-up. Like Kentucky, or UCF. Or if she really wants a small school that has strong engineering, UTulsa gives about 40 NMF and 15 other strong students full rides. </p>

<p>She may not truly understand what the next few years may be like with 2 sets of people paying the bills, or not, as income and ability to pay fluctuate, and the stress she’ll feel from that constant uncertainty about money. Of course, things might improve for you and everything turn out fine, but can’t know that now. If she has to choose between complete financial security at a lower ranked/less desirable school or then getting to attend one of the more desirable schools but never knowing if she might have to transfer out because of inability to pay, how would that balance in her mind? The scholarships she is offered now are only for freshmen. If finances make a more expensive school unworkable and she transfers, the scholarship won’t be available anymore. Have you talked about this?</p>

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<p>No, we have not considered or addressed that possibility. That makes things even more uncertain. Take the money at a school you don’t want to go to, vs. risk having to withdraw if your parents’ finances take a dive.</p>

<p>At the moment, no, she doesn’t have extra departmental or outside scholarships lined up yet. Her GC should be helping her find and apply for some.</p>

<p>I expect any package should have a WS component, and that the schools will help her find WS on or near campus. She will be strongly encouraged to work and earn some money to help herself.</p>

<p>Thank you, everyone. At this point I will go ahead and do the CSS Profile by November 1. I hope her first choice school either offers her a huge merit package so their price would be in line with the public schools, or offers her nothing so it will be starkly clear that she just cannot afford it. I guess we’ll find out in a few months.</p>

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<p>Good luck! Have you visited Bama? I can’t get my S to consider it at all as a parochial northerner scared of southern culture. But it seems from what I read, that once people visit there they all fall in love with it and everyone continues to love it once enrolled. I just don’t see any negative stuff about Bama. It’s got me so curious. Wish S would apply so we’d have an excuse to visit and I could see for myself.</p>

<p>And I agree about the first choice. Getting enough merit so that it might almost maybe be affordable would not be the best outcome.</p>

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<p>Work-study is a federal program offered to (some) students of low-income families. Of course, your daughter could get a part-time job on or off campus, but it wouldn’t be Work-study.</p>

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<p>Unless your daughter goes to a very well funded high school, don’t expect the guidance counselors to do much to help her find schools or funding. Our GC did little more than post them in the guidance office, and help a little with the state program but mostly that was reminding kids of deadlines. And following up? All on me. The GC basically knew the deadlines for the state schools and if you wanted anything else, you had to go find it.</p>

<p>It’s also unlikely that your daughter will qualify for work study, or even subsidized loans. That will be based off the FAFSA, from her custodial parent’s (and stepparent) income. If the EFC is higher than the COA, no work study or subsidized loans. One kid in college, an income over $100k? Unlikely. Neither of my kids received federal aid at all, and their EFC’s were ~50% because there were 2 of them in school. But there are plenty of jobs around campus that aren’t work study, so that really isn’t an issue.</p>

<p>I really think she’ll be happier at a full merit school because that’s guaranteed money. If you end up in a position to help financially, she can use that for study abroad or not have to work while in school. I really think she’d be better controlling the tuition, and the best way for an 18 year old to do that is by having merit aid. One of mine has full tuition covered and a lot of her other costs too. She has a lot more wiggle room than her sister as far as dropping a class, not working during the term, picking her dorm style (she’s in the most expensive one), meal plans, etc. Basically, she’s not a poor college kid and her sister is.</p>

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<p>* If she has to choose between complete financial security at a lower ranked/less desirable school*
Choosing the best financial situation can be a gentle talking point. Along the lines of, “I love you and I’d rather you knew you were as set as we can predict re: costs and payments- and then if there is extra funding, it can go to a year abroad or…” That can be done lovingly. </p>

<p>The fact that Mom may be unreliable does add a wrench. It’s not always possible or wise to point to the Ex in these conversations, but you can admit you only know your own ability to pay and how much. </p>

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<p>Seems like she has been shielded from the realities of her parents’ (you and ex) finances, with high incomes, but spent on lawyers fighting each other. It may be quite a shock when she finds out that she is likely ineligible for financial aid, but there will be little or no parental contribution.</p>

<p>Given the state of the parental finances that you describe (for both you and ex), if she came herself to these forums asking for advice, the only sensible advice for her would be to make her list based on full ride merit scholarships to avoid any dependence on parental contributions.</p>

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<p><<
). She should be working with her GC to track down and apply for additional scholarships against her expected costs.
<<<</p>

<p>This is naive advice…sorry.</p>

<p>A GC is likely only going to have knowledge about small ONE YEAR only awards. Do you want your D to cobble enough money together for ONE YEAR and then have to leave her school sophomore year? </p>

<p>Ok…your D is entitled. We get that. Sounds like she is an only child with divorced parents who usually have high incomes. That can be a recipe for being indulged. </p>

<p>You need to insist that D apply NOW to a few schools where her stats will get large merit…VERY large merit.</p>

<p>Let’s get real. You appear to have an ex-wife who likes to make things difficult for you. If so, then how likely will she and her husband pony up the entire Family Contribution because you can’t pay much or anything? And even if she does pay, likely your name will be Mud for the next few years. </p>

<p>I don’t know if you have used the CC forums to track down some very good Big Merit schools for your D as alternatives? If not, why haven’t you? Likely, with some info like your D’s stats, major, and other interests, we could come up with a few schools that would FOR SURE give her large merit…and a few schools that MIGHT give her large merit. She should apply to BOTH types of schools, in addition to the schools that she’s applying to.</p>

<p>BTW…are you paying Child Support? If so, then how are you affording that? And if you are paying, why can’t that amount be put towards college once she graduates from HS?</p>

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<p><<<
I don’t believe the issue is what he is willing to pay for college.</p>

<p>It sounds like <em>if</em> it was the right college in his mind, he would pay no problem.</p>

<p>But this is not the right college for her, in his mind. Not that I don’t agree with his conclusion based on what he said.
<<<<</p>

<p>I don’t agree. I don’t think he would pay “no problem” if it was the right school…unless paying meant taking out a big Plus loan with hopes that his wife soon finds a job. I think he was just musing when he said that. The truth seems to be that even if she got into - say - Cornell - she’d be full freight and paying “his half” of $30k per year would not happen if his wife remains unemployed. </p>

<p>BTW…just a thought…Is it possible that your wife may be less motivated to find a job knowing that if she does, much of her take-home income would essentially be going to pay for your D’s college? I’m not suggesting that your wife isn’t looking for a job, I’m just thinking that many folks in that situation would not be super-motivated if they knew that once they’re back to the “old grindstone” that they really won’t be enjoying the income…instead it would be going towards paying a step-child’s college costs. Just a thought. </p>

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<p>The guidance counselors at our school are specifically forbidden to discuss family finances with families. Simply put…it’s none of their business. Yes, they can offer suggestions for scholarships, and provide info about relative costs. But they cannot ask about family income, assets, college savings or money in general. </p>

<p>The GCs really have enough on their plate dealing with admissions. NONE of them are trained in the nuances of family finances.</p>

<p>And certainly not in situations where the parents don’t agree.</p>

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<p>Can they even tell the students that the colleges have net price calculators on their web sites, and that they and their parents should use them to get financial aid estimates?</p>