Dilemma

Paying for College
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<p>Many times it’s the herd mentality from what the classmates are considering, where they are applying, and the momentum that make student feel entitled to whatever college What the custodial parent is saying also contributes to expectations. Most parents, especially first timers, don’t get how it works with college costs. When they have children who are outstanding students, they somehow get it in their heads that a full ride or something close to it will come their way. They also expect that it would come to those schools, the name schools, the names which are floating around as the catches. They often do not get that those schools are very expensive, many give only financial aid with substantial merit money hard to get</p>

<p>Do child support payments end after high school or continue through college? Does the divorce agreement have provisions in it about who pays what and how much of college? </p>

<p>The best thing to do is to make sure low cost schools are also on the list, so that when all offers are on the table, there are alternatives that are affordable. Also, look for PROFILE schools that do not use NCP info, UChicago, for instance is saying it does not> I think USC and Vanderbilt do, or did once upon a time. These things have to be verified as they can change…</p>

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<p>I don’t know about Fccdad’s D, but the entitlement feelings in our family are brought home from school. All the high stat AP class kids go around in the same classes together for years and then they watch the older kids in the same group going off to Duke and WUSTL, Northwestern and etc. and finally it’s their turn. There is this expectation that you are going to go to some great amazing school. The kids feel it. The teachers expect it too. And most of the kids do indeed go off to all the big name unis and LACS. A few go to our flagship, which is a fine school, but that is not an exciting option. Some families can easily afford it and others have to take out huge loans to make it work and I don’t even know how people manage to pay. But everyone believes fervently that it is worth it. Families for whom it is a huge sacrifice are caught up in the feeling that it is a necessity to move heaven and earth to make it happen. Very few choose the lower-ranked big merit schools that they could attend cheaply. It has been a huge struggle in our home to turn this around and get S to accept something else. He has now found a couple of schools that he actually likes, but there was a lot of anger and sadness here for months. It helps that he has another group of friends, his sports buddies, who are not all academic stars so are looking at schools below the stratosphere. </p>

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<p>As a child of divorce myself, I am willing to bet that what you perceive as your daughter’s sense of entitlement is rather a deeply felt anger.</p>

<p>She has been in a very subpar situation her whole life. I admire you, OP, for fighting to stay in her life. However, she has truly never been put first and foremost with everyone divorcing and then remarrying. And then both sides expended a fortune in legal battles involving her. None of this is reassuring for a child. </p>

<p>So, I really agree with the poster who suggested you lay out the truth of what you can contribute assuming your wife doesn’t find a job. As tough as that conversation may be, it is nothing compared to what it will be when she has actual acceptances in hand from colleges there is no way she can attend those schools. Please please don’t tell her there are colleges you would stretch for, but not the college she loves.</p>

<p>Now is a time to be loving, supportive, and totally honest. If the financial situation suddenly improves, great. You can help her in some other way. Like starting a savings account for graduate school or some other life event.</p>

<p>Good luck with it all. Really wish your wife the best in her job hunt.</p>

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<p>That IS the insurance through my employer. It sucks.</p>

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<p>Can you opt out and buy a cheaper (and possibly better?) policy from the Obamacare marketplace?</p>

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<p>I got my loans out of default about 4 yearsagothey will be paid off in another 6. We will NOT sell our home to come up with college tuition.</p>

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<p><<<
Yes, my gross income is in the high 100s. CS is over $1100/month (1 child). Mortgage is over $4k/month. My student loans are another $900/month. This was all very reasonable when we had 2 incomes.
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<p>Yikes! Assuming you’ve been out of school for 15+ years and you still have to pay $900 a month for student loans. (heads up to those who think borrowing a lot is easy to pay back with a good income! )</p>

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<p>As a child of divorce myself, I am willing to bet that what you perceive as your daughter’s sense of entitlement is rather a deeply felt anger.</p>

<p>She has been in a very subpar situation her whole life. I admire you, OP, for fighting to stay in her life. However, she has truly never been put first and foremost with everyone divorcing and then remarrying. And then both sides expended a fortune in legal battles involving her. None of this is reassuring for a child.</p>

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<p>Well, it just doesn’t seem that even if the wife gets a job (unless she also is a normally a very highly paid person), that much can be put towards college. With attorney bills on the back-burner, and likely other areas that you need to play “catch up,” I think it’s best to let D know the details of the situation. You say that she doesn’t understand big costs and such…well show her how quickly your high income gets chewed up. </p>

<p>Do you know how much your ex-wife’s household will contribute? Or is everyone is hoping that the “other side” will pay? </p>

<p>@amarylandmom‌ </p>

<p>You make a good point. The children affected by divorce are sometimes just weeds being blown-around in the crosswinds of opposing parents.</p>

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<p><<<
@‌rhandco The school seems to place their engineers in jobs. But D1 doesn’t want to be an engineer, though. She just wants to go to school with engineers.</p>

<p>@lookingforward‌ I’m sure her mother will NOT come up with $15k. I’d be shocked if her mother could come up with $10k. Her CS checks end upon D1’s graduation from HS, and she won’t pay her own loans as it is.
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<p>Oh gosh…does the D know that neither parent is prepared to pay much/anything? Is she being allowed to stay in denial? </p>

<p>And, mom has her own unpaid student loans? Well, she won’t be able to do a Plus loan, I don’t believe. If the mom’s payments are similar to yours…about $10k per year…then you’re likely right, she won’t pay much. The D needs to hear some brutal honesty…neither parent can pay much/anything. </p>

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<p>???</p>

<p>What do you mean by: “if parents’ finances take a dive.” Both parents’ finances have taken a dive. You’re neck-deep in school loans, mortgage, child support, and lawyer debt. Your ex-wife has school loans and likely lawyer debt of her own…and likely a mortgage. </p>

<p>Is everyone in denial??</p>

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<p>I can’t blame the child here. She has applied to two merit schools. There is merit available at this one that needs the CSS (presumably for the merit review-?) Nothing says she is twirling Dad around her finger. Not yet.</p>

<p>OP said early on, that he wants a relationship with her. He’s got a bucket of monthly expenses, those choices are made. I was stunned at the 4k mortgage with so many other financial constraints- but there are parts of VA where that’s how it is. And there are few options to realistically downsize. (My bff is stuck in this downsize dead end.)</p>

<p>Personally, I think the move going forward to have a decent relationship with her is to: have a decent relationship with her. Talk with her. </p>

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<p>It’s all about choices. </p>

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<p>Prioritizing choices is the task of adulthood some might say.</p>

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<p>@thumper1, you said it in 4 words. You did a darned good job, too, emeralkity4. I won’t do as well! …</p>

<p>Re: the plan to deposit money into the child’s account every time she visits you. Eew.</p>

<p>First of all, what’s the message? I’ll pay you if you visit me? Does she not want to visit you without the lure of pay? If not, why not? And if she doesn’t want to visit you but chooses to, for the money, do you really want to imbue her with that sense of indignity, that sense of selling her soul, for the money? And if she refuses your “deal,” do you want to leave her with that sense of disgust that her father is ‘always’ crafting a deal or pulling the puppet strings? That offer will probably work against you – and her. The money and the visits should be two separate issues – for her emotional health.</p>

<p>Second, that “income” in her own account will count against her more than the same amount of money in your account. I know you said it will be deposited in the summer, only after FA decisions are made for the first year of her college education. But are you aware that she will likely need to file the FAFSA and report her income (and her custodial parent’s income) in all successive years? The money you put in her name will count against her throughout her education.</p>

<p>As to the question of whether to file the CSS Profile early or late. I don’t see why it matters. You’re going to estimate your current year’s income. You sound concerned that your 2014 income will be lower than your 2013 income. That’s fine. You’re going to estimate 2014, and then you’re going to update the 2014 information after your W-2’s come out. They may well ask for copies of your W-2’s and your 1040’s to back up your data. So, it really doesn’t matter whether you do it now or later. (I see that you decided to do it now after all.)</p>

<p>And lastly, lots of CSS Profile schools give merit aid as well as need-based aid. If your daughter’s first choice private school is one that gives big scholarships, and if she qualifies for them, then it may not matter what your income is or what you put on her CSS Profile. </p>

<p>My own kids each got huge merit scholarships to various CSS Profile schools during their application processes. The scholarships and grants were merit-based aid with no need-based element. One of my kids attended a very expensive CSS Profile school with a full-tuition scholarship. The scholarship was totally merit-based and was re-issued year after year regardless of my income. And so, I don’t think a student, or parent, should decline to fill out the CSS Profile on principle. You never know what might happen for the sort of kid that is a contender for merit aid. The only thing to lose is the cost of the college application and the CSS Profile application. If you are (or she is) willing to lose that application money on the chance that she will not be awarded enough money to attend, then no harm, no foul.</p>

<p>So many people seem to avoid CSS Profile schools if their parents have high incomes. But if the student is a contender for big scholarships, you’re prematurely narrowing the field without good reason if you throw out all private schools. imo.</p>

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<p>If the engineering school is the one I think it might be (he mentioned one on the 2015 parent’s forum awhile ago, they have only one full tuition scholarship and it is reserved for URM/first generation. The rest of their merit scholarships are $10,000/yr, which won’t make enough of a dent in the cost to make it a go. OTOH, if she is applying to GaTech, they have full rides and full tuition scholarships. Hard to get, but not restricted to particular groups, at least. App deadline for scholarship consideration there is 10/15.</p>

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<p>Celesteroberts, it certainly does come from school. My sweet senior had NO idea about what the high prestige schools were, other than vaguely HPY, maybe. Now he’s coming up with names out of the blue. The kids are talking. I ran into one of his classmates whom I’ve known since he was a little chap, and I swear that kid would have been hard put to list 5 colleges last year, and now he was telling me about how busy he was with his college apps and reeling off well known schools. It’s the talk and there is an expectation that arises from it. Right now everyone is trying to figure out where to apply ED. From not knowing a school at all, some of them will be applying ED to one. The parents get caught into it too, and sometimes it takes the rest of the year for it to sink in that the costs are NOT going to be mitigated by any big fat scholarship fairy or pot of gold waiting at the acceptance line. YOU gotta PAY. </p>

<p>If OP and ex have household incomes as he lays out, the chances are just about zilch that with one child, that even generous PROFILE schools that use NCP financials are going to come with enough money for what OP says is what’s likely to be available to pay for the college costs. </p>

<p>Even if the daughter gets a full tuition award, there is room and board left to pay. If worst scenario comes down to neither family being able to pay ANYTHING towards college, OP’s wife still not employed, Ex and her husband realize that the college payment plan has to be paid, the reality hits, child support ends, then it’s going to mean that the student with her $5500 Direct Loan and whatever SHE has saved and earns could still not be enough for her to go away to school. Commuting to a local school that may give out a nice award, or a local state school such as a comm college might be the only viable issues. With defaulted student loans the mom wont be allowed to take out an PLUS, so the student could get an additional $4K from that denial in Direct Loans. But then, she is looking at being about $55K in debt at that rate by the time she gets her degree. </p>

<p>If OP’s DD does get financial aid from a FAFSA only school, any payment to the school or the the DD, will be looked upon as income, the subsequent year if one goes directly according to the rules. Since NCP income and assets are not regarded by FAFSA, any influx of money from NCP is taken into consideration the next year. Just as child support is included as income. So, that’s something you need to think about. </p>

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<p>The D is likely going to be able to borrow $9500 if her mom applies for Plus. The mom has delinquent student loans, so she will likely get denied. </p>

<p>however, even with a full tuition scholarship, a 9500 and some work-income, the D is likely going to need some help from parents.</p>

<p>I know that the dad has mentioned Bama and Temple as full tuition options. HAS she applied to these schools? It sounds like she hasn’t visited these schools, and she should (at least visit Bama and its Honors College). </p>

<p>Is she considering GT? Ugh! ugly. Why??? She’s not an engineer. She must be OOS since no mention of HOPE or Zell Miller which she would get if instate.</p>

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<p>I only mentioned GT because it’s an example of an engineering school that has at least some full rides and OP said his D’s top choice is an engineering school. I know GT is not regarded as a fun school to attend.</p>

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<h1>71, Simplelife, money given to others, even children, isn’t income. It’s an asset, yes, but if you use up an asset during the year you don’t report it on FAFSA. “Income” is a defined term for taxes and FAFSA, and giving money to a child, especially for living expenses or tuition, is no different than the monthly allowance I gave my kids, just a higher amount.</h1>

<p>FCCDAD already agreed that he would be upfront with his daughter and not make the money dependent on the daughter’s actions of visiting or being rude, but would pay what he agrees to pay. I think he’s just venting a little on his situation, and I think he’s realizing that the money just isn’t there for tuition. I think his daughter will be disappointed but someday may appreciate his position and be thankful that she was redirected to an affordable non-dream school, with a lower cost.</p>

<p>FCCDAD, it’s time to get your finances in order. You need an expert, and you aren’t going to like some of the requirements - no new debt (including college), cut out some of the things you are used to, a much lower lifestyle. You can live in a $4000/ mo home, but then you can’t also take vacations or go out to dinner or shop at Brooks Brothers and Wholefoods. Go get the counseling based on just your income, and if your wife can find employment, then all that money can be used for the things you’ve given up.</p>

<p>I’d like to add that the experts on CC really don’t understand Obamacare at all. One can’t just go out and buy off the exchanges, buy a ‘gold’ plan or a ‘bronze’ plan. The exchanges are for people who make between 100-400% of the poverty line. They are tax credits, so depending on family size, for those making $20-60k. Everyone else? The poor get medicaid and the ‘rich’ get to buy it on the open market and pay huge premiums. The tax credits are just an estimate and available to use throughout the year for the premiums, so if you think you’ll make $50k, you can ‘claim’ the credit and pay the premium as if you’ll be getting the credit. If you guess right, great, but if you guess wrong and really make $60k? You won’t get those tax credits and your tax bill in Jan will be much higher and you could owe thousands. If you have an employer who offers a plan, whether you like it or not, you can have the employer’s plan or buy it on the open market with no tax credits or deductions. I feel for you, FCCDAD, because it’s expensive.</p>

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<p>I completed CSS Profile with estimated income for this year last night.</p>

<p>It seems bizarre that if i paid her tuition that doesn’t count as income to her, but if I send her money to pay her tuition that counts as income? What if i set up a joint account for school bills - income to her or not?</p>

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<p>^^ None of it is income to her. You are not paying her. It is an asset to her, but if it is not in her account on the day she files a report of assets, it’s not there. Now if she’s audited and they want to see her accounts, she may be questioned why there is a deposit for $1000. She has an explanation - it is money from her parent for school expenses.</p>

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<p>Non-poor people can still buy off the exchanges, but do not get the subsidies. However, it does look like the OP’s employer plan has an employee contribution that may be greater than the full cost of plans that can be bought off the exchange.</p>