Direct major admit vs. Taking a risk in engineering

Parents Forum
1

DS has been admitted for Fall 2015 to two top public u. engineering programs, rank, cost, and distance all about the same. At school A, his top choice, all freshmen are admitted to general engineering and then apply to a major after. Admissions is competitive and holistic, and since the policy is new, there is very little information on admissions from previous years.
At school B, son has been directly admitted to his (current) major of choice.

The first statistics just released this week by A for the first cohort of freshmen indicate only 26 % of those who applied to his 1st choice major were accepted in this first cycle, a number which seems to surprise them as well. It was much more competitive than they thought it would be due to a number of factors including current economic situation. Other majors were less selective though still competitive, and a few took all but these were not ones the DS is currently considering.

In theory, I like the idea of a general engineering program, and exposure to multiple majors before making a decision. In practice, it’s beginning to feel pretty risky. DS had better scores than GPA in HS, and it took him a bit of time to figure out how to succeed. The first semester at college may be similarly challenging, though I have no doubts about his ability to succeed in a challenging program. I don’t want to make him feel like we are not confident in his abilities, but do want to make sure that he understands the risks, and the effort he will need to put in from day one. We also really don’t know what other factors they are considering in the holistic part of the review. Average GPA of those accepted was a 3.8
with a range of 3.1 to 4.0. His only other potential choice major took 60%, avg GPA 3.6. There will be a second round of applications after the current semester.

The downside of school B is that, while he is assured his current major of choice, if he does change his mind, as many do, switching to another engineering major is difficult. DS has however been in engineering at his HS for all four years so he is coming in with a pretty good level of previous exposure. He is pretty confident he knows where his interests are. He also feels the overall fit for him was better at school A.

So how do we help him weigh the options? And should we pressure him to revisit school B and put it back in contention? Or, give him the info and then just let it be? He is out of town ( at an engineering competition at the moment) but we want to talk to him this Sunday.

Thoughts from any parents who have experienced similar choices in the past appreciated!

2

A 3.8 is insane and a 3.6 is challenging. Go to the safe choice with his preferred major.

3

26% is really tough - almost 3/4 not admitted. Does he want that level of pressure? How would he feel about having to be in the major that takes all? I have heard that biomedical, in particular, is very hard to get into it.

At school B, are there “weed-out” classes? While everyone gets into the major, do all of them graduate? If he doesn’t like his major or does not do well enough, what are his options to change majors?

My son applied to early and was accepted to a Public College not in engineering, and then decided he might want engineering but it was too late to be a freshman admit to engineering. He has to decide whether to try to get in after freshman year or stick to his original major, or (most likely) go somewhere else. He’s now not sure about the enigneering.

4

Those GPAs were high school GPAs or freshman GPAs?

5

@Mathmom, freshman college. @mom2and there are definitely weeder classes, but the bar to stay in a major is much lower than the bar to get in to a major.

6

It will be interesting to see what he decides based on the new information. Why is A his top choice over B?

7

I’m surprised to hear that the freshman year is so major-specific. Most engineering programs are fairly general for the first year - a lot of general prerequisites like science and math, maybe a programming course. I would verify that it is difficult to change engineering majors after the first year. It is difficult to move into engineering from a non-engineering major- but I would expect it to be easier to move from one engineering to another.

I would be very wary of having to be accepted into the program he wants after his freshman year.

Which is more likely - that he will decide on a different flavor of engineering at school B or that he will not get into the chosen major at all at school A.

8

That’s a tough one. I would be agonizing over this also. It may come down to which is more important- having the assurance of being in your major of choice or being at the school feels like the best fit.

I think it’s worth taking another look at school B for fit and finding out exactly how hard it is to change majors there. My D is a sophomore mechanical engineering student. If she were in this situation, I would advise school B, because I know she would be so stressed out about getting her first choice major that the benefit of the “best fit school” would be lost. But that’s my kid. A parent knows his/her kid best.

As an aside, a 3.8 gpa as an engineering student is crazy high…we tell our D to just try to stay above 3.0 and you’ll be in good shape. Most of her professors curve to a B- average and some don’t curve at all.

9

Both campus have a very different feel. Not naming them (though they are obvious in my history) because both have fervent supporters who would definitely lean to A or B based on reputation alone, and that is not really the issue here. A is a more traditional campus in a college town, B is in a vibrant city. Kid couldn’t care less about the city, music scene, or greek life that college B is known for. Both are huge, so there will be something at each to appeal to every kid. Son felt A would be more laid back, and that he would be higher in the general pool of candidates there which appeals to him - not sure if that will hold true. B has the reputation for drawing the tippy-top, hyper-competitive candidates in our state. He has more friends headed to A as well.

10

A 3.8 gpa in freshmen engineering classes is a tough, tough proposition. I’d be pretty reluctant to sign up for that – especially since most of the other students will be students like your son who also got top grades in high school.

11

The difficulty is likely not due to huge differences in curricula (though there may be some), but due to the school enrolling those majors to their departments’ full capacity. It is mainly the wealthiest private schools that can afford to have excess unused capacity in every major to allow students free choice of major without impaction constraints.

12

My Texas JR that is interested in engineering is now looking harder at U of A and Texas Tech because of the info released this week.

13

@ucbalumnus , that is my understanding as well. At both schools, the engineering majors run at capacity and transfer between engineering majors is competitive particularly between the top couple preferred engineering majors, though there tends to be room in some of the majors, and entering from outside engineering darn near impossible.

14

@arabrab, the 3.8 might - or might not - be an anomaly, as there is only one wave of statistics to look at since the new program is in its first year. Of course son must make a decision now, so that is all the data we will have. And the school does point out that 3.8 was an average and some were accepted with lower GPAs. But based on what we know NOW, we would need to counsel son to aim for that 3.8 to be competitive to his top choice.

15

The “holistic” aspect of admission jumps out. He could have the high gpa but what else are they looking for? Original research? Internship experience? Professor recommendations?

16

Over in the Engineering Forum, the general consensus has been to avoid secondary admission engineering programs. The applicant has to decide for him/herself whether or not they would be confident and comfortable at a school that did not directly admit Freshmen to the engineering department.

17

@Neenie, we don’t know, but it would be very hard to accumulate much of that in one semester in college, though admitted general engineering students have up until the end of their sophomore year to apply be accepted, and declare their major. On the application, they may list their HS achievements as well, and there is an essay where they must state succinctly their career goals and why their chosen major will get them there - To show that they have really considered their path, which is good in that it should reduce jumping majors later when it will more likely reduce their chances of graduating on time.

18

Seems that if he went to A, then he would have to prepare transfer applications to less selective schools with his major as backups while applying to his major. Same if he went to B and wanted to change major.

19

Son’s two best friends and he all wanted to pursue engineering degrees when they applied for undergrad. His two friends attended the in-state public that like A&M had a general first year and then at the end needed to apply for a specific major. Now their school has been doing this for some time, to weed out about 75-80% of the students, again same as A&M’s numbers of about 25% acceptance. At their school you can re-apply at the end of 2nd year but those numbers for acceptance are even lower. Most had trouble with the math sequence of Calc, and its the calc for engineers, not for life science and/or humanities. Engineering is usually through def eq, and of course the physics is also for engineers, calc based. So they can see how they do AFTER freshman year with those classes.

Both of son’s friends had high Math SATs and high GPAs and neither were ever able to matriculate past the general core into a specific engineering major. Both took 5 years to graduate, having to deal with trying to get into the specific engineering major and they ended up in accounting and business agriculture majors (easier to transfer those first engineering courses.)

Son attended a different undergrad with a direct admit into mech eng. He graduated with a mech eng degree. He is SOOO very glad he did so compared to his two friends. Keeping such a high GPA with taking a grinding schedule for engineering would have been difficult. He did well and with the stress of keeping up such a high GPA absent he reallt enjoyed his classes. He was able to take courses which might have hurt his GPA and was really able to take full advantage of his program. He is currently employed as a mech engineer, and has been promoted several times after graduating May 2013.

My advice would be to take the direct admit at UT-A. After watching son’s friends struggle and eventually not achieve their goals and seeing my son’s success the direct admit was a game changer. (this is not the son at pton with the econ major!)

Hope this helps!
Kat

20

Agree with Kat 100%. Lake Jr. is a ChE major at a direct admit school. It’s a very hard major so being required to eventually apply to the department would have meant much added stress.