Disclose social weakness or not

Parents Forum
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<p>OP, I just want to add something about college choices, which seems the direction of this discussion now and possibily why your GC felt the need to mention his issues. </p>

<p>Our son has a strong academic bent, very math strong (SAT 790M, 730CR, 690W) and went to a top/geeky-ish school because his dad in particular felt our son should stress his strengths and wanted to downplay his social weaknesses. Well, college is much more than just the classes he took, and our son was totally overwhelmed by the social demands, particularly having to make friends, live with a roommate, and be far away from family. It was too much and he came home after one year. He should have left after his first semester.</p>

<p>My message to you after this mess: choose wisely.</p>

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<p>“more than likely he’s bright enough to do the work there.”
The question is not about whether he is bright enough to do the work, its whether he can improve his organizational skills fast enough to stay on top of the class demands. The Qtr system leaves little time to catch-up.
And i just took a thorough look at CalTechs mental health services links- lots of emphasis on suicide prevention and depression, nothing about Aspergers, help with getting organized, or any tutoring, LD support. </p>

<p>[Online</a> Mental Health Resources - Caltech Caltech Counseling Center](<a href=“http://www.counseling.caltech.edu/InfoandResources]Online”>http://www.counseling.caltech.edu/InfoandResources)</p>

<p>I dont mean to be a wet rag about CT, but as far an undergraduate LD support for kids with social issues, not mental health issues, it is sadly lacking. I would not consider sending my mildy AS son there for his UG years. But now, 5 yrs later, after getting his BS at another U where his was in the top decile of students, and where he found a great cohert of other smart students and had the time to develop his social skills, without the time pressure of the Qtr system, he is more much capable of handling the academic and organizational expectations of CT on his own, and will be starting his PhD there in Sept.</p>

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<p>[Students</a> on the Spectrum - Intelligence, Asperger’s Syndrome, and Learning Disabilities at MIT (A Reference Board - Not Very Active)](<a href=“http://bgrh.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=1494991]Students”>http://bgrh.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=1494991)</p>

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<p>Personally, I do not think planting the idea that his social ineptness is a disorder or disability into his head is a good idea at all. Honestly think about the outcome. Everyone has different levels of comfort with social interactions and to be honest, being socially awkward is just as an disorder as the person that has hundreds of friends. Honestly, everyone can benefit from just laying back and just thinking. People like you son and I think a lot, to a level more than most people, but is nothing to be alarmed about.</p>

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<p>college12hopefull, </p>

<p>I disagree with a previous poster that if you get into MIT or CalTech then you are going to do OK. I went to MIT and was barely scrapping by when I was working by myself. I would sometimes struggle on a minor point. I ended up forming study groups and we would help each other; what I didn’t get someone else would and vice versa. You can get thru by yourself, but IMHO you need to be super organized which it sounds like your son isn’t.</p>

<p>At any school, it helps to be somewhat outgoing as where a high school teacher might pull you aside and help you if they see you need it, college professors are less likely to. They have plenty to do besides teaching (talking primarily about those research oriented schools like MIT, CalTech, etc.). The effort to ask for help is left more to the student. Of course, once you ask for it, the professors are very good at providing it. It is that initial contact that can seem daunting.</p>

<p>On the MIT forum there is an admissions counselor, MITChris, that participates. Send him a private email and disclose your concerns about your son. It is anonymous, so you won’t be hurting your son’s chances (although I don’t believe it would anyway but I’m not really the one to say).</p>

<p>My son has some minor learning issues and had an IEP but was just monitored in junior and senior school, but with no accommodations. We did not initially disclose this to the college. He starting having some grade issues and we then contacted the school. They were very helpful and he ended up getting some minor accommodations in some classes that helped a lot. Wish we had contacted the school sooner; would have been more pleasant for him.</p>

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<p>I think it entirely depends on his coping skills when alone. His ability to get done what he needs to get done and not get hung up on his social skills. I find it interesting that there are so many labels and so many concerns these days. I am an INTJ and was socially inept my entire K-12 existence. I ran around the most geeky kids you’ll ever know and had no close friends. My brain runs so fast and processes so quickly sometimes I can’t even put a coherent sentence together but I “train” others on how to handle crisis media. In high school I immersed myself in my music and sports and knew I was an outcast because I just didn’t know how to small talk with people or make friends. I’ve never been analyzed or evaluated or described or had an IEP but I managed and bloomed as I got older. I’m actually in a career that requires an amazing amount of personal interaction and social skills. People have no clue that I’m anti-social except that over time they realize I don’t formulate close friendships very fast and most of my social interactions are quite superficial. It works for me and for the job I’m in. I’m exhausted at night and totally anti-social once home but I’m married to a guy that everyone likes, was voted most popular in high school and who has friendships that have spanned decades so he picks up the social slack for the two of us and “covers” for me when I’m particular not “into” hanging with a bunch of people. Thankfully my husband has grown to understand me. If your son can manage on his own chances are he’ll be fine and grow through his experiences. I’ve learned people are all different and the best thing is to reach for your goals and work at them. </p>

<p>From what you posted OP I lean for non-disclosure. The social awkwardness has nothing to do with an ability to succeed in the classroom and there will be others like him in college especially at the schools you mention. My most close fellow high school geek is now a prof at colleges people only dream about on these boards and doing high powered research on the side and I have a career that others think is “cool” and I doubt my geek friend and I ever looked each other in the eyes when we talked to other our entire high school experience.</p>

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<p>It is one thing to be INTJ. It is another thing to have an IEP and to have been given support and perhaps some accommodations in school. There is a border, albeit blurry at times, between what is a ‘disorder’ and what is a ‘variation.’ It is within the province of the GC to decide if she will disclose given that there is an IEP. Anonymous recommendation letters might make reference to the OP’s child’s patterns (or may not, you don’t know as they are anonymous). </p>

<p>It is well known within the professional community that for years parents have sought out diagnoses and the accommodations which come with them- feeling these could benefit their children-- and they do. However, there is another side to this reality. </p>

<p>I think the posters who are reflecting on what happens when you do not take into the account the ‘hidden curriculum’ aspects of high paced, demanding schools are really accurate.</p>

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<p>Thank you. I’m an INTJ but it’s a personality style, not a disability and I’m certainly not Aspergers.</p>

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<p>I think compmom has the right idea-- disclose if it is in some way an obstacle overcome. Otherwise it’s his own business. All of us have our peculiarities, and many wonderful people have problems with social relations. You (and your son) can decide if you’re facing a situation such as limabeans faced–but that doesn’t mean you have to explain to the college.</p>

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<p>The colleges you mentioned are going to base part of their admissions decision on your S’s EC’s. If he is able to demonstrate some kind of passion he will be fine (still a crap shoot). If his social problems have caused him to not engage in the things they value he will be at a disadvantage. Sometimes I think the fact that a person with a disability is able to achieve at a high level shows their passion. It is not something to be ashamed of but something that shows the strength and determination of the individual. They may indeed have something unique to bring to the campus. They know how to work around personal difficulties. </p>

<p>If you think his application is strong enough without disclosure then why mention something that is not a problem in this situation. If there are obvious gaps (but improvement) in certain situations then IMO it cannot hurt to disclose. S can put a positive spin on it in his essays.</p>

<p>If you know there are gaps but S is not willing to write about them it might suggest he has not embraced his challenges or does not feel he really has any. If this is the case he needs to concentrate on schools that put more emphasis on numbers alone, perhaps UC Berkeley? I am sure other posters can give you lots of suggestions for numbers based admissions.</p>

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<p>Something else I want to throw out there (and this is not intended to dissuade your son from applying to these schools, but just FYI) - at many top engineering/science-y type schools, there is a LOT of group work.</p>

<p>In the engineering and science fields many people work in teams - either in a lab, for a company, for the government, etc. A lot of schools have revamped their curricula (or it was pre-existing) to incorporate group work and group-work components and/or have set up their curricula so that students benefit the best by working in groups, either formal or informal (e.g. study groups, problem set groups, etc.).</p>

<p>Just something to keep in mind – if your son will not an effective group member or will not participate actively in groups. . . . .</p>

32

<p>Like previous posters, I see no reason for the OP’s son to disclose. However, this statement is concerning:</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>First of all, he may not be diagnosed with Aspergers, but with the poor social skills, the poor organizational skills, the late assignments, the poor coordination, and the delayed speech, he sounds very similar to an Aspie. Therefore, we can learn from the experience of other bright Aspie kids who went off to college.</p>

<p>I’m sorry to say, Aspies in college tend to struggle. In the social area, Aspies are prone to either depression or anxiety. I don’t mean, feeling a little sad, but actual, medical depression, the kind that leads to suicide, and actual, crippling anxiety with the inability to rid the mind of obsessive thoughts. Their social isolation exacerbates these problems, and if they are far from home, no one notices.</p>

<p>In the academic area, Aspies who have poor organizational skills, no matter how bright they are, flounder in college and often flunk out.</p>

<p>College12hopeful, as usual in these threads other posters are telling you not to worry. Ignore them. You should worry. You should also take a careful inventory of the help your son is getting from his social skills training, from his high school teachers, and above all from his family. How much nagging, scheduling and organizing are you doing for him? Who cleans his room and does his laundry? I know you think and hope that he won’t need that support when he is in college. I’m here to tell you, he will.</p>

<p>I advise you to send your child to a college fairly close to home, so you can see him regularly and monitor how he’s doing. Also, I advise you to arrange for professional support where he needs it. </p>

<p>Colleges will tell you that they support their Aspie students. Do not believe them. You will have to organize the support yourself.</p>

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<p>CardinalFang has got it. They can be considered an expert in this matter so far as I am concerned-- and as a recent grad with high functioning autism, I’ve experienced firsthand what they’re talking about.</p>

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<p>^^^Well Said CF!
Going off to college involves a lot more than getting a good education.
students lacking in “life skills”, or who have difficulty organizing their time, will probably have a hard transition to college, where they are very much on their own, especially if they are suddenly without the strong support structure they may have relied on at home.</p>

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<p>I feel for you, as this is a tough situation. I guess I go back to the difference between disclosing on application, and disclosing before accepting admission. If your son/you are uncomfortable disclosing on application, I hope that you will be comfortable approaching the colleges after acceptance to find a place that can offer him the academic and social support he may require (whether it is intensive, periodic, or crisis management). He sounds like a smart kid who has overcome a lot with your support and advocacy for him. I am sure that once you identify the right environment, he will do wonderfully!</p>

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<p>To the OP… I know you said that the GC wants your son to disclose, because she feels that if not, and if he struggles it will reflect on her.</p>

<p>Do you think that MAYBE she/he is concerned that if he does not disclose, he could end up in a situation he is not able to handle?</p>

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<p>Both my kids disclosed their learning differences & both were accepted to all their colleges. When oldest applied it wasn’t a choice as it stated on her testing that she had accommodations-however, it also opened the door to inquire about supports at the LAC in which she was interested.</p>

<p>Now I realize, you can have accommodations on testing and it won’t say, which I think is a mixed blessing. It seems much more difficult to get the accommodations for testing & it can be more difficult to determine what the supports are once the student is attending. ( However- difficulty is probably a given)</p>

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<p>Emaheevul is also an expert in this issue. IIRC, her college career had rocky moments. Listen to her as well, college12hopeful. (Emaheevul, I’m an Aspie mom. You can use female pronouns for me. :slight_smile: )</p>

<p>College12hopeful, you should be less worried about the social disability you put in the thread title, and more worried about your son’s organizational problems. Both are issues, but the organization problems are what get Aspies thrown out of college. College demands much more planning, motivation and self-organization than high school. If you withdrew all the help you are giving your son, and if his high school withdrew all the organizational support the teachers provide, would he be able to keep himself on track? Would he be able to manage long-term assignments? Would he be able to find a group to do group assignments? For many Aspies, the answer is no, yet college students are expected to do those things.</p>

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<p>^I couldn’t remember for sure and after complaining in the gender thread I didn’t want to guess wrong! XD </p>

<p>My college career certainly did have rocky moments. I spilled my drink when I read that social problems don’t directly affect academics. :wink: I am high functioning enough that my autism went undiagnosed until I was in my 20s, nobody had any idea and my HIGHLY qualified neurologist was /shocked/ at the diagnosis until she read the report-- so I would be careful discounting my input because I’m diagnosed with something and your S isn’t, OP. I didn’t have any seriously disabling problems until I got to college, and then quite quickly my disability became apparent. Tread carefully. CardinalFang is right.</p>

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<p>Fang Jr wasn’t diagnosed with Aspergers until he was 19. But his disabilities are real and severe. Bright students on the autism spectrum can often cope in high school, and might go undiagnosed, but when it comes to college, they crash and burn, as I know all too well. I don’t want the OP’s family to go through what my family went through.</p>