<p>My son is a high school senior student and is going to apply to colleges this fall. He is considering math major and will be applying to MIT,Caltech and CMU. He has minor learning disability which manifests in the area of poor social and organization skills. He has decent stat ( 2320 SAT, 4.4 weighed grade). He has had IEP since elementary school and receives weekly social skills therapy. He did not receive any academic accommodations. He is geeky, nice but may appear to be out of place because of his social skills. He tends to avoid eye contact and is not great in small talk. Since he does not receive accommodation for tests and will not receive any in his future college, I lean against non disclosure of his social cognition problem. His GC recommends disclosure when he applies to colleges via his essays. With Mit and Caltech admissions are crap shoot for nearly everyone, I believe disclosure only hurts,not help. Do you think the GC can disclose even if we do not want to? Does she have the right? My son, does not believe he has the social problems and he will not write about it. He has been improving over the years but his social skills are still behind the regular teenagers. My GC 's rationales are colleges will not trust her if she fails to disclose the condition and the kid fails school. I have visit the disability web sites of several colleges and the decision of disclosure is the student’s choice.</p>
<p>It is not a problem. Deal with it. He is probably part of the less than 1% group of people has the INTJ personality. I am an INTJ myself. I can relate to your son. It is not a problem. I can assure you that. I hate small talk myself, do you know why? Our minds are racing 24/7. We are analyzing everything and having multiple conversations to ourselves in our head at any given time. We tend to be very competent people that usually go into STEM (Science, Technology, Engineering and Math). And I can pretty much guarantee that there would be plenty of people like him at any of those schools. That is just the way it is. </p>
<p>Let me guess, most of his social interaction is online, such as message boards such as this and or facebook. Also, he rarely hangs out with friends outside of school.
[INTJ</a> Statistics](<a href=“INTJ Statistics | Personality Cafe”>INTJ Statistics | Personality Cafe)
<a href=“Intjcentral.com”>Intjcentral.com;
<p>There are two issues you are raising: should your son disclose his social issues in his essay and secondly, should GC (and can the GC legally) disclose details about your son even if it’s against our wishes?</p>
<p>I do not think the primary message from your son’s essay should focus on his deficit at all. There have been plenty of kids who have written about their challenges and how they overcame them, but if your son doesn’t feel this is an important topic in his life, let him decide.</p>
<p>The other issue you raised is a delicate one. Your GC should not focus on any deficits or weaknesses either. She can word her report that can imply his challenges, but she should not disclose anything, particularly because 1) he is not getting any accommodations and because 2) you have specifically asked her not to. If she can’t write her report to the colleges in a way that hints of his challenges without actually coming right out and saying what they are, she’s not a good advocate for your son and certainly can’t write. (That is, is that all she sees in him??) The only reason she should feel it’s important for the school to know these things is if she worries your son will have a hard time while away at college. If that’s the case, she should be talking to you about that and about his college choices.</p>
<p>I should add, inspired by david’s comment above, the concern you about your son’s social weakness may not be such an issue in today’s world. The rate of autism spectrum disorders which you described (not saying your son has ASD, but that those with ASD have many of these same traits) is now 1:110. That means, for every 110 people, someone struggles with ASD. And there’s a huge, wide diversity of those issues. If your GC starts saying your son has had services for “a multitude of social weaknesses”, that information potentially could indicate full blown autism, and that’s a whole lot different than just having poor eye contact.</p>
<p>Please tell me your son is going to apply other places as well as those 3. As you mentioned, getting into MIT or Caltech is a crapshoot for the best of the best. What if CMU doesn’t admit him? Just saying, he needs a safety-safety or two.</p>
<p>I sympathize with you because there were moments I got irritated with our guidance counselor because it seemed like she was working for the colleges, not the students. I can still get a little steamed if I think about it too much.</p>
<p>My son has Aspergers and has the typical social issues that go with that. When his advisor wrote recommendations for summer programs, she spoke of the growth she’s seen in him over the past couple of years and the contributions he makes when he participates in class discussions, (leaving out that he is not a frequent contributor).</p>
<p>What does the IEP have in it that supports your son, since it does not have test accomodations in it? Is it something that he will need in college?
There is a difference in providing the information in the application, and providing the information prior to enrollment. If your son has an IEP, there is likely some support he needs. Are you looking into the support available for him that will continue the recommendations of the IEP? I am just asking because some schools have better environments/ programs to handle one problem or another (example: dyslexia or ADHD). So there may be a college out there that can meet your son’s educational and medical need.
Either way, I have not read the applications fior all of those schools, but I do not believe that the common application asks about learning accomodations (I could have missed it though).</p>
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<p>Interesting question. Does anyone know the answer? I would be ticked if the GC disclosed something in the social skills area (as opposed to grades, rigor of courses, etc.) My son chose to mention Asperger’s in his essay, but he was not applying to any reaches.</p>
<p>I think the legality of it might hinge on the difference between student health records and educational records.</p>
<p>From the Common Application - FWIW - with emphasis added:</p>
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<p>I personally don’t think that social disabilities are significant enough to mention on a college application. It’s more of a personal issue to be dealt with, but as far as academics go, it has no direct impacts. The indirect impacts are usually very easily addressed.</p>
<p>Back in high school, I was exactly like your son in terms of social issues. In fact, looking back on it, I can’t believe that I once thought it was perfectly OK to not acknowledge a greeting from someone I know. For me, college is a place where I learned to deal with my social issues and adapt accordingly so that they’re no longer issues. These days, I can get by most situations as a very social person, even though the fact that it’s a learned behavior just means that people occasionally notice something’s “off” about me.</p>
<p>Making the social issues an actual issue, in my opinion, seems to be an excuse to not address those issues and push them off until they cause much larger issues later on in life where those excuses no longer work.</p>
<p>“His GC recommends disclosure when he applies to colleges via his essays.”
My vote is a huge NO!!! The colleges your son appears to be interested in are FULL of brilliant, geeky, not very socially adept students, and there is NO reason for him to disclose a social interaction LD. In Addition, you and he may well find that his social skills greatly improve in college, especially when he finds a larger group of peers that share the same interests as he.
I also agree he needs to apply to other colleges as well-
RSI, Harvey Mudd, U of Chicago, Reed, Carleton, come to mind…</p>
<p>Thanks for being helpful. My son has IEP since elementary school because of speech delay. He has been in regular class since 1st grade. In elementary school he received speech and PT and OT for poor coordination. Since middle school, he has only received group social therapy. He has not been officially diagnosed as Asperger since we believe diagnosis itself does not change his condition. He had a batch of social cognition tests recently and they confirm his weakness in social pragmatic area.
He is quite bright but the social and organized skills also caused some problems with group works and late assignments. He will have some safety schools to apply to as well. His GC also recommends small schools as opposed to big state universities.
I doubt he will continue to receive anything in college in term of his social cognition. However, if the school does offer some thing to improve his social weakness, he should attend. I do worry about his social well being when he is away from home.
Yes , he has a small group of friends but relations are quite superficial. Most contacts are on line and it is ok with him.</p>
<p>Those colleges (and the easier admits that I assume your son will also be applying to) are full of kids just like him. Some have received services and some have not. He certainly should not waste his essays talking about his minor disability. He could possibly mention it in the final “Is there anything else you want to share” section. If the GC shares it- it should be in a very positive way. </p>
<p>That said, you should definitely be think about the next step. Is your son ready to graduate from having weekly social skills therapy? If not once your child is accepted some place it would be a good idea to see what sort of service they offer and how accommodating they actually are. </p>
<p>Here on CC I’ve seen parents whose kids are thriving once they get to college and others where everyone thought there would be more support than there was. My oldest is a brilliant, geeky, not very socially adept kid who thrived at Carnegie Mellon, but I’ve never felt he needed to be taught social skills - just encouraged to use them more.</p>
<p>There is no need or obligation to disclose any disability to admissions. Many people recommend against. Some kids do write an essay showing the “obstacles overcome” because that may appeal to admissions, but it can also be damaging to identify oneself so closely with a disability or health condition or whatever. I know that for one of my kids, who has a significant health problem, the last thing she would ever do is write an essay about it. There is a lot more to her than that label.</p>
<p>Once admitted to a college, then you and your son should immediately contact the college disability office, submit documentation, and discuss any accommodations or services that could help. They don’t have to be used, but it can sometimes be good to get things on record, and prepare for worst case scenarios, rather than go back and try to do it after the fact. At least, that is what we have been told. Your son may never use them, but it brings peace of mind to talk with the folks in that office and investigate supports.</p>
<p>I think that the guidance counselor really isn’t up on these things, which is a little concerning in the situation. There is no way that it will be a problem in which the college “doesn’t trust” your son. There is no expectation that people will reveal conditions or needs or weaknesses or whatever to admissions in their applications. And the suggestion that your son write an essay about lacking social skills seems misguided: surely there is something more positive your son can write about (unless he feels that it has benefited him in some way, etc.etc. but even then, there are probably better topics).</p>
<p>I would ask the guidance counselor to leave that topic aside as much as possible, and maybe check out whether or not you have a right to ask him not to write about it at all. I really have no idea, but some diagnoses are confidential and require a release, I think.</p>
<p>You can keep the social skills issues in mind when you look at schools, and you can certainly ask if you like, but many of us try to help our kids find the right fit, then just wait and see where they get in - then disclose.</p>
<p>I know this is not the question you asked, but I remembered seeing this thread a while ago, and thought I would pass it on to you. Good luck with your search!
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/962903-college-high-functioning-aspergers.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/962903-college-high-functioning-aspergers.html</a></p>
<p>This reminds me of that episode of House called lines in the sand.</p>
<p>House is my all time favorite tv show, and this episode is in my top 5 favorite episodes of the series.</p>
<p>The only problem with the colleges you have mentioned- , MIT, CalTech, etc is that the there is little forgiveness for falling behind, turning in work late, etc. The pace of instruction at CT and MIT, in particular, has been described as “trying to drink water from a fire hose”- information is blasted at students, and they have to be able to keep up.
There are many colleges that offer math majors. You many want to consider how well he will actually be able to keep up and not fall behind, without the level of support he is currently getting [ and NO intellectually challenging, fast paced college offers the same level of LD support he is used to receiving.] In college students are expected to self advocate, and seek out help on their own [ from Profs during office hrs, from any tutoring services offered on campus] when they run into difficulties.</p>
<p>I have to respectfully disagree with you menloparkmom. My comments are more geared toward Caltech because I know a little bit more about it.</p>
<p>If the OP’s son is qualified for admission and gets accepted to a place like Caltech, then more than likely he’s bright enough to do the work there.</p>
<p>With such a small undergrad population (in the 900s I believe), he should be able to get the type of attention he deserves, especially if arrangements are made ahead of time with student health services.</p>
<p>If he can get into Caltech and it’s affordable, I say at least give it a shot and make a little bit of an extra effort to work out the logistical concerns. </p>
<p>And I know it’s easier said than done, but based on my experience with my family members who struggle with organization/handing things in…if the interest is there in succeeding, then there’s nothing that should hold him back.</p>
<p>imasophmore- we all have to watch out for our kids best interests. And they are all different. My son takes medication for ADHD. For all of his top choice schools I have looked into the ADHD supports medically and scholastically so I know what each school has. I am sure that this will play a part in the final choice, but not be the deciding factor. My son is smart enough to do the work at top universities, the decision he has to make is if he can handle the high pressure of those institutions. There are some kids you can throw in the water and they will do great without their floaties- excel even. Others need to wade in slowly, with a little more observation, coaching, and support to achieve the same level of excellence. It has nothing to do with intelligence. And I can promise you from experience that it has absolutely nothing to do with interest. None of us want to set our kids up to fail, or not enjoy their college years. The OP will make decisions based on what is right for her son, and his needs so he is successful. I believe that everyone is just trying to provide all of the options to consider. As you know, there are many colleges out there to meet the needs of many different types of students. And top tier schools do not necessarily mean anything more than a larger tuition bill. :)</p>