Disputes with School Administration and Admissions

[blueiguana]

<p>A thought to the OP:</p>

<p>Imagine how different your relationship might be with the administration if…
When you first saw what you thought to be flaws, or things not consistent in the registration of classes, you had worked with the administration to form a student group to help in some way. Colleges love to see student initiative in forming groups and leading up efforts to improve things at their schools. Perhaps a student led group to request meetings to clarify graduation requirements for each class, to assist with picking up books for students, to help with administrative data if necessary, etc., could be very helpful.
Working with an administration (that’s not going anywhere) and presenting yourself as part of a solution, as opposed to a constant irritation, makes the world of difference.</p>

[aigiqinf]

<p>

you had worked with the administration to form a student group to help in some way

Our principal hates student groups . . . and we don’t even have a parent’s group. I’m part of our student government; we have no officers and we meet completely at the discretion of the principal. A meeting consists of him telling us what he’s doing and asking us about how great it is. . . the last meeting, to my knowledge, was last September.</p>

<p>

Working with an administration that’s not going anywhere and presenting yourself as part of a solution

Our school effectively has no plans. It doesn’t know where it’s going and doesn’t seem to want to. The students and the faculty are fed up with it, but there’s nothing we can do.</p>

<p>

It’s extremely doable and very much worth it.

I’m very grateful for your suggestions, and that the program worked for you, but there would be nearly nothing for me to take, especially to meet the graduate distribution requirements. Attending my community college is a lot cheaper too. The issue here is not that I’m not getting what I want, I make sure of that, it’s that the only manner to get there alienates the administration of my school, meaning I might graduate with two+ years of college credit, but my counselor my undermined that in the admissions process.</p>

[bigtrees]

<p>So it sounds like the whole problem boils down to you wanting to take community college classes instead of classes at the high school?</p>

<p>And I am assuming that students that don’t take community college classes don’t have the same problems you’re experiencing, right?</p>

[applicannot]

<p>

My state schools have dates for priority FA and notification that are too earlier for me to be allowed to apply to QuestBridge by it’s own policies. Again, I expect most QuestBridge applicants have a counselor going to bat for them, and instead mine would likely be like, “Goes over people’s head a lot, unappreciative.”

</p>

<p>QuestBridge allows you to apply to schools with rolling admissions and priority deadlines. As long as the program is not early decision (i.e., binding) or early action, a student is welcomed to apply to those schools. I don’t know of any schools with an EA program (I believe that programs like QB allow you to apply to the University of Michigan). Also, my counselor met me exactly once before writing my recommendation, and my teachers barely knew me at all. Even if you don’t use QuestBridge, if you feel your counselor recommendation is going to be poor, you may want to write something about it in your additional information section. Just remember that throughout your entire life you are going to have to work hard to make good impressions on people who you dislike.</p>

[JHS]

<p>Stop trying to convince people that your administration is incompetent! It puts you in a terrible light, it provokes a skeptical and hostile response from most adults who hear it . . . and it completely doesn’t matter! To anything!</p>

<p>I don’t believe that you have pursued the Questbridge possibility. It cannot be that students from your state are systematically excluded from Questbridge unless they forgo a priority application to your public universities. I may believe you about your incompetent school administration, but I don’t believe that.</p>

<p>In your circumstances, a bad or resentful school counselor recommendation is NOT going to doom you anywhere. But you do need to find a sympathetic, sophisticated adult to write a supplemental recommendation that will address those issues without the overlay of fingerpointing and resentment that you bring to it.</p>

<p>Again, stop trying to explain yourself. That whole approach is never, ever going to work, it will just suck you down into a whirlpool of recrimination. Focus on the positive – how are you going to present the best application you can, assuming no help, or incompetent help, or perhaps even undermining from your school. By the way – one of the things I don’t believe about your story is that your two school administrators will actively try to sabotage your application. People want their students – even their pain in the butt students – to succeed, especially of one student is not competing directly with another, more favored student, which doesn’t seem to be the case here. If you can figure out how to be a little nicer to them, you can probably count on whatever help they can give you. But you don’t need to rely on that.</p>

[Keilexandra]

<p>

@blueiguana

First, the superintendent of schools usually sets the graduation requirements, not the principal. It is always someone at the county level at least. This applies to speciality schools as well. As long as you are a public school, it is not up to the principal.

I have no idea about the OP’s situation, and frankly no comment on it; however, I WILL correct false information. I attend a public charter school with a “President” as the principal, and we do indeed have our own graduation requirements that exceed state mandate. Specialty schools are not allowed to change the minimum state requirements, but they often have flexibility to add EXTRA requirements; these decisions are made by the president and the board of the school. That, after all, is the entire point of a charter school.</p>

[aigiqinf]

<p>

So it sounds like the whole problem boils down to you wanting to take community college classes instead of classes at the high school?

The problem boils down to people wanting to run a special kind of school that’s just starting. They have no idea what the rules are or what they’re doing. I asked them to register me for classes (being the most basic issue) and they refuse to even try to do so until like the day classes actually start. They don’t sign me up for my off-campus courses, and they don’t get my textbooks–which again, only they can do. I come up with a plan. . . and even when they agree to it, they won’t follow it, and they just come up with something completely stupid and off-the-wall.</p>

<p>

And I am assuming that students that don’t take community college classes don’t have the same problems you’re experiencing, right?

</p>

<p>Every student in my school takes community college classes. In fact, my principal purports that some varying amount of college credit is a graduation requirement. The problem is I want to take courses with a different community college (which is the purpose of the program, to allow you to take classes with any community college) because that community college has less restrictive graduation requirements, and that it costs me up to several hundred dollars less to do so. The other problem is that I want to graduate from the community college while lack of planning and refusal to meet with anyone leads to everyone else just being stuck in random courses. . . we don’t even offer enough courses on campus for students to take a full load, as I mentioned before.</p>

<p>

If you choose to rank one or more colleges (regardless of whether each college is binding or non-binding) for the College Match, you may not apply to other colleges through Early Decision or Early Action

</p>

<p>“If you choose to rank one or more colleges (regardless of whether each college is binding or non-binding) for the College Match, you may not apply to other colleges through Early Decision or Early Action” [National</a> College Match Program: FAQ](<a href=“http://www.questbridge.org/students/faqs.html#s2q5]National”>http://www.questbridge.org/students/faqs.html#s2q5) The two in-state public schools I’m applying to only consider applicants for certain scholarships when they apply EA.</p>

<p>

Stop trying to convince people that your administration is incompetent! It puts you in a terrible light, it provokes a skeptical and hostile response from most adults who hear it . . . and it completely doesn’t matter! To anything!

</p>

<p>I came here and said, “Here’s my situation.” All the responses are like, “No. That can’t possibly be your situation. You’re just an arrogant, annoying little kid who doesn’t know what he’s talking about.” So instead, I’m left arguing that it is my situation. Wouldn’t it be more reasonable to assume that I have some idea of what’s going on in my school and my life, and provided guidance based on that? It does matter, to my original question . . . which has been ignored based on the assumption that it’s all my fault.</p>

<p>

your story is that your two school administrators will actively try to sabotage your application.

</p>

<p>I didn’t say they will, I said that I’m concerned that they will. . . and wanted to know what to do about it.</p>

<p>

Specialty schools are not allowed to change the minimum state requirements, but they often have flexibility to add EXTRA requirements;

</p>

<p>In my state this is not the case. The problem that I mentioned is that my principal is claiming to increase the graduation requirements while the authority to do so is specifically delegated to the State Board of Education and Local Board of Education solely. Responders are arguing, therefore, that I just must “misunderstand him.” I’m young–not committed for mental incompetence–I know what I’m talking about here.</p>

[applicannot]

<p>

The two in-state public schools I’m applying to only consider applicants for certain scholarships when they apply EA.

</p>

<p>What schools?</p>

[aigiqinf]

<p>^
PM’d you.</p>

[blueiguana]

<p>Quote:
Originally Posted by blueiguana
First, the superintendent of schools usually sets the graduation requirements, not the principal. It is always someone at the county level at least. This applies to speciality schools as well. As long as you are a public school, it is not up to the principal.</p>

<hr>

<p>Keilexandra said:
I have no idea about the OP’s situation, and frankly no comment on it; however, I WILL correct false information. I attend a public charter school with a “President” as the principal, and we do indeed have our own graduation requirements that exceed state mandate. Specialty schools are not allowed to change the minimum state requirements, but they often have flexibility to add EXTRA requirements; these decisions are made by the president and the board of the school. That, after all, is the entire point of a charter school.</p>

<hr>

<p>Keilexandra- Thank you for your information and I appreciate your post. There is a difference between a charter and speciality school. We have multiple speciality schools in our county that allow for speciality diplomas, however these are still governed at the county level. The OP may be at a charter school, however that is not what he stated. Graduation requirements for either should be easily accessible.</p>

[sopranomom92]

<p>Quote:
Just remember that throughout your entire life you are going to have to work hard to make good impressions on people who[m] you dislike.</p>

<p>These are words of wisdom. OP, you are obviously very intelligent and very competent. You will attend a college full of intelligent, competent students. Then you will graduate, and at your job you will find endless numbers of incompetent, “average” people. Some of these will be your bosses. You will HAVE to figure out a way to work with them without alienating them. There IS some truth to the old saying that: People get promoted to their highest level of incompetence. With time and patience, you will (must) learn how to deal effectively with all types of people, whether they are above you in rank or below you. If you learn this well, you will be the boss. Then, of course, you’ll have to be an expert in dealing with the “incompetent” people below you.</p>

<p>It IS very difficult to deal with bad administration. But, unless one of them literally kills or abuses some student, chances are they will keep their jobs. </p>

<p>If the administrators are truly incompetent, I guarantee you that at least some of the teachers (the good ones) are fully aware of this. You should be able to find one who can help you. They are just as frustrated as you. But you’ll have to start with something like: “I realize how difficult it is to forge a new path in education, like what our special school is trying to do. Can we find a way to…”</p>

<p>Of course, it’s entirely possible that you’ve alienated everyone already.</p>

[Olymom]

<p>And perhaps you are pushing people far out of their comfort zone. You have your reasons for wanting a different CC. They have their reasons for having the choices they suggest. Fortunately you are not married to each other for eternity. Sounds like you have a year or two to get through. </p>

<p>If you want something outside of the norm for the school, then anticipate that it will be hard to do – and you may not succeed. Are you sure that the recommend CC has nothing for you? You may want to be an MD or a pilot but you can still learn and benefit from classes in business math, welding, horticulture or Spanish (or whatever else the CC offers). </p>

<p>If you seek a battle, you will find it . . . and you may not win it. Keep in mind, these people draw a paycheck that keeps them in place and you, my friend, are just a little fish passing through. All they have to do is out wait you and they win. </p>

<p>When David Souter was up for confirmation to be a US Supreme Court justice, the advice he was given was “don’t **** off the sharks.” He had to walk a careful line to answer the pugnacious Congressmen and still keep true to his ideals. He had an amazing low profile and . . . got confirmed and moved on in his career. </p>

<p>There are battles worth fighting. There are things worth dying for. But a few credits at a CC? Maybe a low profile and some fast swimming to the next destination is called for here.</p>

[NewHope33]

<p>aigiqinf - I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt … (because if you’re misrepresenting the situation, well you won’t gain anything from your post, will you?).</p>

<p>“Just remember that throughout your entire life you are going to have to work hard to make good impressions on people who[m] you dislike.”</p>

<p>I have served in several dysfunctional institutions, so I know that it’s entirely possible that an organization can be incompetent from top to bottom. (Consider SEC investigators visiting Madoff four times and finding N-O-T-H-I-N-G.) But the fact of the matter is “it is what it is” … and you need to deal with it. I won’t suggest what you should do, but I would encourage you to carefully examine (a) everything you try; and (b) how effective each attempt is. You will NEVER know for sure which of your efforts result in positive or negative consequences. But you owe it to yourself to monitor your initiatives and the effects you can monitor. Good luck. Things will be better at college, I’m certain of it.</p>

[bigtrees]

<p>It seems to be that attending the community college all of your classmates are attending is the easiest and simplest answer to getting your diploma and then moving on to college.</p>

<p>Ten years from now, nobody will care how many cc classes you completed in high school and how many you completed in college. Your degree won’t change, your job opportunities won’t be impact and whether you enter the workforce at 21, 22, or 23 won’t likely have any impact on what you do for a living.</p>

<p>If it saves you frustrating, I’d swim with the current (taking classes at the same college as your classmates) rather than swimming against the current (taking classes at a different college than your classmates). </p>

<p>Since this will undoubtably be lost on the OP, I’m really saying this for everyone elses benefit. You learn to pick your battles in life. I’m not sure this is one of the ones worth fighting as it will all be over in a year and half and you’ll be same person regardless.</p>

[JHS]

<p>

I came here and said, “Here’s my situation.” All the responses are like, “No. That can’t possibly be your situation. You’re just an arrogant, annoying little kid who doesn’t know what he’s talking about.” So instead, I’m left arguing that it is my situation. Wouldn’t it be more reasonable to assume that I have some idea of what’s going on in my school and my life, and provided guidance based on that? It does matter, to my original question . . . which has been ignored based on the assumption that it’s all my fault.

</p>

<p>So let me try to point out, again – and maybe this time you can try to think about it rather than defend yourself – that this demonstrates the fundamental self-defeating nature of your whole approach to this problem. If you start by saying “I am the victim of monumental incompetence by my principal, and now that I have antagonized him I am afraid that he will take revenge on me,” you are never, ever going to get away from arguing about whether he’s really incompetent, and just how arrogant you are, and how much of it is your fault. On top of that, you are not good at telling your story. At all. So even people who are inclined to be sympathetic to you get hung up on the parts that don’t sound true, and the whole thing becomes an argument about your reliability and your arrogance.</p>

<p>Which doesn’t help you at all.</p>

<p>Start over. What do you want for college? What is your plan? How can you make your school irrelevant, so that you don’t have to deal with it any more? Are you sure that you need to graduate from that school? Do you need to graduate at all? Can you get a GED? Can you transfer to a different school? All of those questions are more important to your future than who is at fault for not buying your books on time last fall. And I have no clue from your having taken some considerable portion of my time and attention how you would answer any of them.</p>

<p>Here’s another little hint: I am someone who is sympathetic to you, although why I’m not sure. I am trying to help you. You know, give you the advice you asked for in your first post.</p>

[ICargirl]

<p>I have no idea why people are being so harsh to the OP. We have no reason to believe that his list of charges against his school is inaccurate or embellished. Assuming tjat they are true, he really is dealing with an appalling administration making mistakes that might affect his graduation and are certainly affecting his educational experience. These administrative lapses are severe enough that passive acceptance is not an option.</p>

<p>While it is possible that he hasn’t handled the situation as diplomatically as possible, we are talking about a teenager pushed to his limits. The OP not a spoiled brat griping about a single grade. He’s also not middle-aged attorney with extensive practice in diplomacy and persuasion. He has, however, managed to provide a reasonable and cool-headed answer to almost every hostile question thrown at him - you may not believe that he’s looked into Questbridge enough, JHS, but his answer suggests that he has done his homework. If he is missing something, it is probably because he hasn’t had the benefit of good guidance. </p>

<p>I also don’t understand the snotty comments about his post. I expect standard spelling, punctuation, and reasonable levels of coherence on good message boards. I don’t expect streamlined legalistic arguments and would never make judgments about someone’s ability to explain himself in person based on a CC post probably written as a means of venting. I also don’t assume that the anger expressed in a forum designed to offer help for college-related problems would necessarily translate into a cocky or resentful college application.</p>

<p>Now, for the OP:
One suggestion I do have for you is to pick your battles. When the school does something unfair, irrational or irresponsible, ask yourself “What are the potential consequences of their (in)action?” If the answer is “I might not get into the courses I’m interested in,” let it go. If the answer is “I might not meet a requirement for graduation,” pursue it. Why do you want to graduate from community college? If it is because you want to enter college as a junior transfer immediately after high school, it is important. If it is because you think the credential would be nice or because you think it matters for college admissions (which it won’t), forget it. That being said, almost all of the specific problems you have with the school sound severe enough that you need to address them.</p>

<p>I agree with whoever said that you should find a couple of teachers who also dislike the administration to write recs for you - hopefully recs that will mention some of the school’s problems. Also make sure to apply to a couple of schools that don’t require recommendations so that if the school decides to make life difficult for you (and given what you’ve said already, I don’t think you’re just being paranoid) you’ll at least have someplace to go. If you can, get letters from community college professors.</p>

<p>While as I said earlier, I don’t think your post indicates that you are likely to do this, don’t write a supplementary essay bashing your school. Instead write a diplomatic supplement that mentions that your school is a specialty school that differs from traditional schools in X,Y, and Z way that is relevant to your application. If their requirements prevent you from taking certain advanced courses, mention it. If there are no school clubs, mention it. Don’t say “I couldn’t take classes X, Y and Z because someone in the school messed up my application.” Say "Because my school’s unique mix of community college, online and on-site classes, scheduling is very difficult and prevented me from taking classes X,Y and Z, which conflicted with required class W (or "which had filled up by the time I was permitted to register).</p>

<p>Document everything just in case the school gives you ANY problems about graduation requirements. Make notes of every conversation, copy every letter and every schedule with an administrator’s signature approving it.</p>

<p>One more note: Depending on what the standardized testing irregularities are, you may be ethnically obligated to report it, whatever the potential consequences. If the teacher isn’t reading through the full list of instructions on each section, you can let it go, but if he’s giving students who aren’t entitled extra time or feeding answers, get in touch with the testing agency ASAP. If it came to that, that might be an exception to the “don’t criticize your administration in the application” rule, as being the whistleblower on your school is pretty significant and may have repercussions that would need an explanation. I would suggest a supplemental (non-sanctimonious, matter of fact) essay about what led you to do what you did despite your fears.</p>

<p>Good luck, and I really am sorry for the reaction you’ve gotten.</p>

[JHS]

<p>ICargirl, I’m trying not to be harsh to the OP. His answer on Questbridge doesn’t suggest he’s done his homework. His answer on Questbridge suggests he’s spent some time looking at the website and leaped to an absurd conclusion without following up at all. That’s not “doing his homework”, that’s pretending to do it. I’ll give him an “A” for Effort – well, more likely a “B” – but that’s not going to help him. He needs to focus on getting results, not accumulating slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, whether or not in writing. </p>

<p>Yes, he hasn’t had the benefit of good guidance, but what is he doing about that? And how is keeping a written record of his disputes with his school or diming his school to the College Board going to get him better guidance, exactly?</p>

[blueiguana]

<p>ICargirl - When you want an idea of a posters overall attitude you can look at previous posts they have made. Each post is not necessarily a blank slate.</p>

[bigtrees]

<p>From another one of his posts:</p>

<p>

I’d like to attend law school after undergrad…I debated at the UN in middle school, was president of the debate club, am a teen court attorney, and am seeking an internship with the local DA. I’m also soon to receive my second compensated, state government-appointed position and am “sparring” with the Governor’s Office over a legal issue I expect to “win.” I’ve also brought legal concerns to another government agency which stands to completely change a major government program. I read state law and educational policy in my spare time =/ I’d really like to do a dual-degree program but I’m afraid of the cost.

</p>

[Nrdsb4]

<p>

I have no idea why people are being so harsh to the OP. We have no reason to believe that his list of charges against his school is inaccurate or embellished. Assuming tjat they are true, he really is dealing with an appalling administration making mistakes that might affect his graduation and are certainly affecting his educational experience. These administrative lapses are severe enough that passive acceptance is not an option.

</p>

<p>We only know what the OP has chosen to tell us. This is the internet, where people often embellish, exaggerate and outright lie. Even in the best of circumstances, our perception of events is completely subjective. We’ve not heard one word of the other side of the story. Personally, I take everything I read on the the internet with a grain of salt. I think the OP has been given some helpful advice. You can’t really fault other posters for having healthy skepticism when presented with such a one-sided version of these events, particularly since the problems recounted are pretty vaguely reported.</p>

<p>Finally, I’m always a little leery when I read a post by a student who claims to be completely surrounded by incompetence and/or stupidity. I find it hard to believe there is not one adult at that school who knows what they are doing.</p>