Disputes with School Administration and Admissions

bigtrees · April 20, 2010, 10:47am

OK, so out of curiosity I did some searching the the OP old posts. I wanted to see what was going on. Here is my take:

He is a student at some type of experimental or alternative high school. I can’t tell if it is online but he refers to the lack of students so it is something very small.

In North Carolina (the state I believe he lives in), students have the opportunity to take community college classes for free and receive both high school and community college credit. It appears that most of the students go to a cc that is really close but state law allows him to attend any cc (for free) in the state. This is called the Earn and Learn program.

The OP’s goal is to graduate from high school after his 2nd year as high school and also have a associates degree at the same time. He is planning or has taken courses over the summer to try to speed up the graduation requirements.

As with any government program, it is rather complicated to buy textbooks. There is a link that describes the process.

I think I have a little more sympathy with the OP now that I did before. It sounds to me like the state of North Carolina setup the Earn and Learn program and required every school district to follow the program and perhaps not all school administrators are up to speed and on board with the program. There are new systems, new processes, and new methods of trying to get students enrolled in the cc classes. And, it is likely the program may not have been adequetely funded and the GC at his school isn’t well versed in how to accommodate a different choice in schools.

My advice to the OP then would be to reset your relationship with the school. Apologize for being arrogant. Let them know you recognize their difficulty. And then see if you can work on writing a document or procedure manual that describes the steps needed to support students with doing the earn and learn program.

They did say on the website that this is a new program and it will probably take a number of years before everyone is up to speed.

However, it’s not an incompetent administration or lazy people at the school. And that you’ll understand someday when you finally see enough new systems at work that you get confused.

Nrdsb4 · April 20, 2010, 10:53am

That would be a great start. As they say, you can get more flies with honey than vinegar…

blueiguana · April 20, 2010, 11:20am

Very sound advise bigtrees. Being part of a solution, working with the administration, is a no-brainer. Doing something along the lines you have suggested can only help. It may offer the OP some insight into the difficulty the administration faces in implementing the program. If the OP is the self-starter he claims to be, it should be right up his alley. If he is past this and wants to move on, then do so and leave your frustrations and complaints at the door. You can’t have it both ways.

I am curious where OP intends on moving on to a four year university if he finishes high school and his associates degree at 15/16yo. I will be the first to admit that I have no knowledge in this are, however will a university let a student live on campus at such a young age? Perhaps OP has a university near his home that he can attend after graduation that will allow students at this age. A lot goes on at a university and I would think they have to cover their rears when young students are involved.

I would add that although OP feels the process has been filled with red tape, he has been given an opportunity that many other students would be very glad to take advantage of. As frustrating as he may find it at times, not all students are afforded the opportunity to be dual enrolled, and certainly not to the extent that he has been. Try to keep that in mind as you finish up this part of your education.

Also keep in mind that so far, unless you have been severely abusive, your educators have had to put up with your attitude. This will not be the case as you go on to future endeavors. As you mature, hopefully you will learn to temper your attitude and work with others in a manner that not only respects them, but yourself.

bigtrees · April 20, 2010, 11:26am

We actually had a 16 year old that lived on campus at my college. A 20 year old guy promptly asked her out and they dated for a while, and then I think they moved in together. The girl was nice but really immature compared to her 18 - 20 year old classmates, which would make sense.

The OP was looking at some NC state colleges as well as the standard private schools that most students look at.

JHS · April 20, 2010, 11:38am

OK, well the Questbridge answer continues not to make any sense whatsoever.

I think the other bits of advice I would give the OP are:

Slow down. You are less mature than you think, by quite a bit. The world won’t come to an end if you wait until you are 17 or 18 to go to college.

It’s fine to do mock trial or whatever the heck it is you are doing, but stop playing lawyer in real life. It’s not a way to make something good happen.

It’s impossible to believe that your current school is the only option available to you. You may have thought it was a good option, because it could accommodate your community college plan, but look how well that’s working out for you.

Getting the AA degree could be profoundly counter-productive, and disqualify you from opportunities that would otherwise be great. Please be careful. I have a sense that you are flirting with committing educational malpractice on yourself.

You really, really, really need to find some competent adults in your community to help you. You need to find one, at least, and then listen to him or her rather than trying to impress by reciting state statutes.

aigiqinf · April 20, 2010, 5:58pm

There’s a separate program for online classes and face-to-face classes. If I take any face-to-face classes at a campus, I get a completely different designation, which requires me to pay for textbooks and activity fees. However, I can take only online classes at a different school and get that all free. The difference in taking all classes with my local CC, and taking face-to-face classes at the local one and online classes at the other one is hundreds of dollars a semester–and that’s a lot for a family with an EFC of $0. I’ve explain that to my counselor, but she claims that no one at the [other] college ever returns her calls. Of the 5 times I’ve called, someone always talks with me immediately. I shared the information with my counselor, and the person to contact and contact information. Still, the forms never get filled out. I’ve started to doubt her ability to effectively communicate with educational professionals.

The other issue is that the local requirements of my community college make it a lot more difficult (and expensive) for me to graduate at the local one than the other school. I need at least 20% of the courses at the other community college in order to graduate from there. I am meeting with someone this week to discuss if they might be willing to waive a few of them. If not, I’ll confirm with my secondary-CC advisor about graduating there.

My counselor would likely lose her job, my scores would be revoked, and I need them for my community college degree. I just don’t see that I have a choice here.

I’ve been really floored by them. =(

Asking for guidance from the experience people on CC. 0.0 I just mentioned I found a very experienced and helpful counselor at my CC yesterday.

That shouldn’t be so hard to believe. . . as I mentioned “no one” is 0/2.

I was on the board in charge of that program. . .

I’ll be 18 at HS graduation . . . not 16 or 17. I’ve decided to go with a “lesser” diploma, which means that any in-state public I go to cannot require me to take additional general education, regardless of individual difference in courses, because of issues that can result from an associates degree. Most colleges, and in particular my in-state schools, require me to apply as a freshman, despite my college credit. . . but they are forced to accept it.

Anything’s possible. . . with enough money. However, in a family that’s limited in that sense, not so much.

bigtrees · April 20, 2010, 6:15pm

It sounds to me like this is the trouble you are having. Please correct me if I’m mistaken.

Is that accurate?

givings · April 20, 2010, 6:18pm

OP, you are obviously very, very bright and it sounds like you have the weight of the world on your shoulders. My kids would never be able to navigate a system such as the one you describe. I am familiar with dealing with local school administrators and boards, and oftentimes we just resort to referring to some of the ridiculous hoops we jump through as “SPSS” or “stupid public school stuff.” If these things are hard for me as an adult, I can only imagine what it must be like for you.

I have no advice to offer except to say, don’t give up and keep trying. If something isn’t going the direction you want, then start over and try a different approach. I wouldn’t discount a lot of the advice you’ve received on this thread…except, do try to overlook the negative reactions.

Hang in there, and welcome to the adult world of bureaucracy. You are learning too early, and the hard way, about these things. But maybe you will be able to utilize some lessons you’ve learned in all of this later in life.

blueiguana · April 20, 2010, 6:21pm

^^ I believe the CC the high school normally uses does not offer the online classes OP wants. The ‘face - to - face’ classes require materials (ie textbooks) which create a financial burden. I’m sure OP will correct me if I’m wrong.

aigiqinf · April 20, 2010, 6:25pm

This issues is:

The counselor isn’t supposed to be the one registering students for online classes–but our principal insists that she does–there’s a specific person for that. As a result, she doesn’t have any idea how to register people because the updates get sent to the designated lady, and not the counselor. Our local community college pretty much does the process for our school. However, in order to register at another school, my counselor just needs to fill out a simple form. . . which I provide to them, along with contact information, and politely ask to be registered.

My school still doesn’t send the letter. . . and I always approach them months before the deadline. . . but they can easily register that early. When it does, they change it, and fail to send the needed information. Then, because I’m sitting there at the last minute to get into those courses, it’s always past the date to get the bookstore to mail textbooks. Again, ordering textbooks is something I remind them to do, and provide all necessary information.

I take classes at the community college that every else does, but they’re classes only offered face-to-face like this semester: Calculus II and Gen. Chem II. I need to be registered for online college at the another community college because doing so saves me up to hundreds of dollars per semester.

The Learn and Earn Program is only for online classes. The CC keys you in as a certain major and you aren’t charged anything. If you take any face-to-face classes, even in addition to online classes, it’s a completely different program, meaning you have to pay for textbooks and activity fee for each course. So I can be X designation at my local school and take the face-to-face classes, paying for books/fees, and Y designation at a different school and not pay anything there.

Thanks!

JHS · April 20, 2010, 6:30pm

The OP already knows everything worth knowing, at least according to him. I am puzzled what advice he is looking for – there doesn’t seem to be any space in his plan for change, or any acknowledgement that he might do anything differently. He seems to live in a parallel universe where some (not all) of the laws of physics as we know them do not apply, but that’s OK because he knows everything there is to know about his universe, and he’s tight with the rulers. He doesn’t seem to want to leave his dimension for college, so apparently he’ll be fine.

aigiqinf · April 20, 2010, 6:34pm

No, I already know nearly everything about the policy and programs involved–as is my job. I’m asking, “In this situation, what do I do?” Instead, certain participants claim that I simply have no idea what I’m talking about, and that they some how have magically knowledge about my situation I don’t. Mirroring your own advice, why don’t you stop arguing with me about whether the circumstances are true, and help me determine what to do about it?

bigtrees · April 20, 2010, 6:40pm

Before I can suggest what you need to do about it, I need to know the actual responses from your school.

When they don’t send the letter, and you ask why, what do they tell you?

When they change the classes you want to enroll in, and you ask why, what do they say?

What classes do you want to enroll in next term and can you?

Olymom · April 20, 2010, 6:47pm

Keep a notebook of all your interactions. Note down who you spoke with on which date and a record of what you are trying to accomplish.

You might also get some help by contacting your local state representative – some times a call from an elected official greases a system – but you will have to write out a very clear story for the representative about what is happening. I think that is the part that is hurting you here. Your story line is not at all clear – so people start wondering if you are hiding something.

I would write out a story line that went like this:

Here’s a description of the program I am in:

Here’s a description of what most kids do:

Here’s what I am trying to do:

Here’s where I am running into problems:

Write it out and take it to some one with good English skills (preferably outside of the school system. A neighbor? A family friend) and have them review the history for clarity.

All of this exercise will do two things: it will give you a clear history to share and it will crystalize your thinking.

Good luck!

Pizzagirl · April 20, 2010, 6:59pm

And do it neutrally and factually … don’t clog it with “and so-and-so is incompetent.”

Honestly, I can’t figure out the storyline either.

aigiqinf · April 20, 2010, 7:14pm

We’re really busy.
I keep calling the lady, and she never gets back to me.
We think it would be better if you do xyz instead of what you brought to us and we approved. Even though you asked to be contacted, and we told you not to remind us, we just decided not to let you know.

“But what you don’t understand [aigiqinf], is xyz.” Me: “. . . But lmnop.” Them: Oh! OK!
That makes sense. . . . [followed by failure to follow through]

Not sure I quite understand. Summer: Microeconomics and Macroeconomics. I’ve asked my school to register me, but I haven’t gone in to remind them yet.

Fall: Pending my meeting about waiver of [college] graduation requirements, American Literature II, Statistics, Calculus III, German I (Online HS), General Physics II, and a PE course. This year, I told them that I would decide on my college classes with my college advisors, and let them know later, and asked to be put in German I Online. Language classes fill up quickly and my school will often not try and register students until literally the day classes begin, so I’m not sure if I’ll get it. I know they’ll give me grief because the principal wants everyone to take at least one course on-campus per semester, but that’s not possible. I’ll also have to give them a list of the alternative-CC classes, and follow up more diligently this year.

JHS · April 20, 2010, 7:21pm

OP, since you haven’t answered a single one of the questions I asked you earlier, I have no idea where to start advising you what to do. If it wasn’t for bigtrees’ efforts to piece your story together, I would have no idea, still, what you were talking about.

You are very proud of your knowledge, but you are not a competent communicator yet. It’s hard not to jump to the conclusion that part of your troubles start there. I’m really sorry to say this, but if someone has to be smarter than I am to figure out what you want, you are in deep, deep trouble.

As far as I can tell, your situation is highly specific. I find it so incredible that there are no actual public schools in your state that I have no idea when you are telling the truth, but it seems clear to me that no one can give you any kind of generic advice. One would have to know the schools (and people) involved, and what college it is that you are aiming for, and what you plan to do there, and the specifics of your programs. I hope the counselor at the community college can help you, or someone else here on College Confidential with more patience and more sense of how things work where you are than I have.

aigiqinf · April 20, 2010, 7:25pm

Which is why I tried to make this as general as possible. . . 4 pages ago. Until suddenly, I was branded as that kid, and completely unaware of what’s going on in my own school and life.

bigtrees · April 20, 2010, 7:40pm

I would suggest improving both your written and verbal communication skill. We don’t know what is going on and we cannot understand the problem from your writing. As JHS said, people on here understand the story from what I have pieced together rather than from what you have said.

I believe much of your frustration comes from the inability to communicate with others. Perhaps there is also difficulty is listening to them and understanding their reasons for what they are doing. It is important to understand their reasons so you can figure out a better way of accomplishing your task.

Even on this thread, you are getting frustrated with other people who you believe are labelling you. Nobody has labelled you. People have given you sincere, direct, and clear advice. I don’t think you have been receptive to it and simply ignore us when we tell you something you don’t understand.

Why are you trying to waive graduation requirements at the college? This sounds like an extension of your arguments you have had with the high school administration. Colleges generally do not waive course requirements to satisfy the request of the students, as many students would like to waive classes.

(To everyone else: The OP has stated in previous posts that he has some diagnosed issues, and I suspect that he may have been diagnosed with high-functioning autism. That would explain why he is taking advanced college classes at the same time getting frustrated with the administration. At the suggestion of Cardinal Fang, I am writing this in a direct and clear manner as she has said people with Aspergers have a hard time reading between the lines).

To the OP: If you don’t have high functioning autism/Aspergers, my apologies for assuming that may be the case.)

With that, I am signing off of this thread.

blueiguana · April 20, 2010, 7:41pm

If the graduation requirements require one class on campus and this is a financial hardship then contact the social worker assigned to your school. Just like free and reduced lunches, if part of your education is causing financial burden you will either receive assistance or the waiver that you are looking for.

Disputes with School Administration and Admissions

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