Why not visit some schools that meet the general criteria but are not extremely difficult to get admitted to? Then there will be less anxiety about trying to game the admission to the top 10 most selective schools.
@AustenNut suggested Santa Clara University. It has ABET-accredited civil engineering, with environmental as a subarea. It has about 6,100 undergraduate students, so it should fit the size criterion if schools like Stanford, Yale, CWRU, and JHU meet the size criterion. It is in the San Francisco Bay Area with the desired weather and nearby family.
I was a bit confused by this statement - since the gist of the thread is all about steps you’ve taken to position your student for Ivy and HYPSM after a poor previous result from a previous student - which included what 99.9% of people would say is outstanding (2 T20 and 2 T15 LACs).
So it seems odd to me. Is it you that wants the top school?
If you’re truly looking to “optimize” for these ultra selective schools, I don’t think playing an instrument (even if rare or niche) is the way to go. Unless there are serious international awards and professional experience involved, along with a stacked resume. It’s difficult to stand out with music.
@tsbna44 for the schools mentioned by @LondonAero there would be no audition but a music supplement with recording/video, music resume and music LOR’s can be helpful. Auditions may happen in the fall once on campus.
I am actually not going to spend time reading this thread. I cannot understand disappointment with these results. I think it is important to remember to find a school that fits the kid and not try to fit the kid to any particular schools. (Check out Colleges that Change Lives ctcl.org)
My only other comment is that the top schools mentioned, are assembling an interesting class. It isn’t about some hierarchical valuing of individuals. Imagine a class full of valedictorian NMF student council presidents, school paper editors etc. It really is about the mix of individuals, which is out of your control.
And I don’t think it is any harder to get into what you call the T10 than 20 years ago. In fact, as demographics change, it may get easier. Our high school senior class has gone from 110 to 49.
I assumed it was the harp since why else would you buy two of them to have one at school? (Well actually my DS3 wanted to play cello and was a tiny kid who took the school bus so we borrowed one for school practices also. He wanted to play it because “you don’t have to stand up”. Eventually he went to voice only, his choice)
I think maybe a harp player could be interesting enough to be a hook at some places.
I totally agree with this. It reminds me, and I think I’ve said this on CC before, of the real estate agent we talked to three decades ago. “Do you want a condo or a house?” “I don’t care as long as it has at least two bathrooms” “No, you have to choose condo or house first”
Um…no I don’t.
Like how with my kids, Jewish community was important and size/location much less so, and weather/urban/scenery not at all. DS3 actually only allowed schools onto his app list if they had Jewish a cappella (which he is now in )
Just want to add that it really isn’t harder to get in to top schools. The acceptance rate has gone down because applications went up, partly when financial aid increased and also during the years when schools went test optional. Many of these applications were screened out I would assume. Now that they are no longer test optional we will see what happens, but financial aid has also increased - Harvard is free for under $200k now and 15 years ago it was under $65k. The increase will mean more applications and lower acceptance rate.
The single most effective thing you can do for your kid to get into HYPSM is to move to a rural area in Wyoming or one of the Dakotas.
Based on the kids who Interviewed with me and got in, and based on S’s (HYPSM) and D’s (graduated from a T20 NESCAC) friend groups, I don’ think there is a “checklist” of preferred activities (other than winning or placing highly in some national or international competition). Once the kid has passed a base academic hurdle, gpa, rigor and test scores, the highly selective schools are looking to admit students who will contribute to the school, in and out of the classroom. What or how many activities is much less important than what the kid accomplished, with teamwork and leadership being critical. The activity needs to be genuine as the school is looking for this (or similar) contributory activity to be continued in the college community and was not an exercise in resume building. As an example, S was good enough to be recruited to play baseball at a D3 level yet his “baseball” essay was about playing on a team with inner city kids and his efforts to stand up to privileged teammates who were bullying/looking down on less privileged kids.
To me, the issue is not how your older kid presented his application. The issue is the fact that your expectations (and/or the expectations of your kid) were apparently too high. Given the extremely low acceptance rates at these schools, it makes more sense to expect a rejection, not an acceptance, unless the kid is a star being recruited for a quarterback position or something. Having great grades, test scores, and ECs is not enough to expect an acceptance if the school accepts just a few percent of applicants.
My 25 kid had some weird requirements about ECs and majors, too. Size of school and rural/urban weren’t a consideration at all, really. (Geographic w/i the US was, though.)
( My family growing up, and my partner and I have had home searches that were inclusive of both condos/single-family at the same time. I don’t even find that weird at all!)
Let’s call it parental insight. Predicted that kid would love Stanford once they toured, talked to students, met a particular professor and attended a small music event, listened to the admissions info session. We toured summer before senior year and that’s exactly what happened.
I don’t think this is true. Yes, it became easier to apply, but the pool of highly qualified applicants is way deeper as well. There has been a multi-decade national push for everyone to go to college (which is just starting to wane now). The population of h.s. grads is near its peak and higher than back in the day. The kids who get into my Alma mater (an Ivy) uniformly do and have accomplished way more than my peer group had in high school. They are way closer to a polished product. Many more have experience related to their career ambitions, etc. Also, the schools are more affordable for lower income talented students than they were, so more of them can apply and expect to afford it. There have been education campaigns about that as well. The talent pool is bigger than back in the day in my view. It’s not just more apps.
I agree that people grossly underestimate geographics in admissions. And they also don’t consider the AOs in the process as much as they should. For example, if the AO was a swimmer in HS, they recognize what that entails- early morning practices, year round meets, etc. So if they see a year-round swimmer in their pile of apps, they might take a closer look. We tend to gloss over who is looking at the apps, and focus on what’s in the apps vs things that are out of our control.
I agree with the OP that going through admissions with an older child shaped how we approached things with D26. We learned a lot. If OP’s post about T20 schools was on DCUrbanmom, no one there would blink an eye. Kids are curated now, and parents spend tens of thousands of dollars on college counselors, test prep, etc. But there are things we can do to increase our kids’ chances of landing in the best places for them. I encouraged mine to pursue research opportunities, apply to programs that I knew they’d enjoy and would also look good for college admissions. We also approached D26’s college list differently- more targets/likely schools, made sure we had a safety she was really excited about, and we were more strategic about her supplemental essays, really making sure they showed a connection between her activities and the school’s culture to demonstrate fit. We’ll see how it all shakes out.
Final thought re: ABET engineering at “lesser” schools- it comes down to fit. My son loved Brown when he toured, he’s now an engineering major. Loves the school, and because it’s not a grind he’s able to participate in a couple of clubs and organizations which he really enjoys. We approached it as ‘you’re getting an ABET accredited degree, and if you decide engineering isn’t for you and switch majors, no one is going to look down on a degree from Brown.’ He loves it, classes are challenging but he’s able to be involved in other activities, as well.
You made some of the same points I did so not sure we disagree. In fact it seems we agree! I was just pointing out that more applications equals lower acceptance rate. Colleges know that. (And financial aid, test optional admissions, recruitment other factors I don’t know about, increase applications). Your only different point was that there might be more well-polished applicants. Interesting but have no idea how that affects admission rates, since many of the well-polished resemble each other and top schools are looking for a mix. Don’t disagree on that, don’t know.
It is the bottom line we disagree on. I say it is harder to get in than it was before, you said you do not think it is harder. That is where we disagree.
It is harder to get in because the number of qualified applicants has increased drastically. However, I don’t think the quality of admitted students has dropped until you go back to the old days of heavy handed legacy admissions. It has become much more unpredictable for high stats, good quality EC applicants as AO’s are making distinctions based on the slightest of differences, often subjective judgments.
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