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In California, any debts incurred post-separation are considered separate property. Not familiar with NY law, but it’s possible the OP may not have to worry about those post-separation medical expenses.
NY is the same, as long as a separation agreement is signed or you are considered as separated based on NY’s requirements. I was separated for a year before the divorce was final. My new employer wouldn’t insurance my ex even though we were still married. I was able to take my ex off as my beneficiary (401k, life insurance, everything) based on the separation agreement. We didn’t have to be divorced.
As mentioned above be careful with the divorce agreement signing away debt. Unless the creditor also signed the agreement if your husband fails to pay they will go wherever the money is.
I see this with tax debt all the time.
I must mention I disagree with the stance that long term marriages should not have assets equitable distributed because one spouse carried the economic load.
Generally:
Creditors are under no legal obligation to remove either debtor from a joint debt absent a release. The only time an ex-spouse would be released from a debt incurred during marriage is if the debt is “refinanced” or if a specific release is given to one of the spouses.
Regarding the medical debt, if you or ExH represented that you are the “guarantor” when the medical expenses were incurred because you held the medical insurance policy at the time the medical services were obtained, it will be difficult to get rid of that debt vis-a-vis the medical provider. As a preventative measure, you should contact all of his medical providers and give notice that he is no longer covered under your policy once that takes effect. Have you removed him as a dependent on your policy?
You should immediately (before settlement or divorce is final) take steps to remove ExH as beneficiary of all of your life insurance policies, 401k and IRA accounts and any other financial accounts in which he had previously been the beneficiary. Those are contractual arrangements with financial institutions and nothing in your impending divorce will change those barring you taking action. Change them and put your children as beneficiaries.
If you have a will that had your ExH as the primary beneficiary, make sure you have that taken cared of as well. I do not know if NYS automatically provides for a revocation by law of a devise in a will because a marriage terminates. If not, you run the risk of those provisions surviving the end of your marriage.
This is NOT legal advice, but…how much OP owes may be determined by her contract with her insurance carrier rather than whether it is a post-separation debt. By analogy, you can keep your kid covered on your policy until the age of 26 now, but if you do, my understanding is that you are responsible for the portion of the bill not covered by your insurance, even though you aren’t otherwise responsible for the debts of your adult child.
If the OP and her H are old enough for social security, I would suggest that he go on Medicare. You can go on Medicare without taking social security benefits. I don’t think any judge would hold she has to keep paying for his coverage if he can get Medicare.
One slight modification:
Because of ERISA requirements, you will have to wait until after divorce is final to remove ExH as beneficiary on your 401k account (as opposed to IRA account) unless he consents to the action.
And, clearly, nothing provided on CC can be considered legal advice by any stretch of the imagination – just consider it as help and support. Good luck to you!
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is that since I filed, he racked up $160k in medical bills (he is covered by my plan).
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Is the $160k the “uncovered part”? If not, how much is the uncovered part? Is the concern that the payment of the uncovered part will “come off the top” of your assets?
Were these medical bills from purely elective procedures or medically necessary? (not asking to be nosy, just wondering if the “non-covered” expenses would be viewed differently during this meeting if they were from purely elective rather than life-saving or medically-necessary procedures.)
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He has zero profit from his business and is at or near retirement age (although how you retire when you're self-employed is a question). He could have taken SS benefits (and I could have received benefits) but chose not to.
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If I remember correctly from earlier posts, he hasn’t seen any profits for years. Is there a possibility that during this meeting there will be a demand that he get a much greater share of the assets (from home sale?) because he’ll need that money to “retire on”?
I’m guessing that he doesn’t want “spousal support” since that amount could/would be tied to how much you earn, so that during “lean years” he wouldn’t receive much?
I don’t blame you for trying to figure out the best strategy for this settlement meeting because since he’s intent on “scorched earth” as a punishment to you for no longer being his financial lifeline, who knows what he might pull out of his fanny.
thanks everyone! yes, overtheedge – no matter what, SO glad I’m not married to him anymore.
re: keeping him on my insurance – my attorney said I had to until we had reached a settlement agreement. I filed (officially – got an index #, served him with papers) in Feb 2014 so in my mind, any debts he incurs post-filing are his, but the medical thing is tricky. Jonri – really good point – I should find out how Oxford/hospitals/doctors view these debts.
tom1944 – I totally agree – collection agencies will go after whoever they think will pay. I can’t afford to have my credit trashed (clean credit is a pre-requisite for being licensed in my industry).
AttorneyMother – I can’t remove him yet (per my attorney) but will do so as soon as we reach a settlement agreement. Same with removing him as beneficiary – she said don’t do it now; as soon as I get the green light from her he is coming off EVERYTHING – IRAs, life insurance, will, savings.
mom2ck – $160k is the uncovered part. He had rotator cuff surgery (not sure how elective that was) plus other procedures I’m not familiar with. I think he is taking advantage of my plan to check out every ache and pain.
Yes, he hasn’t earned income in years. I think honestly he is terrified of outliving his savings and will scratch and claw for whatever he can get. Yet his 92 y/o father is very frail and ill. Once he dies, ex should get at least $150k. My attorney is pointing that out. He is not destitute. Plus he can work! What a concept. We recently hired a 72 y/o at my firm. He’s healthy, fit, and with a graduate degree from Yale. Tell me he can’t find a job.
Is it possible he is racking up all these medical procedures to insure that he can’t work?
What’s the difference if he is? It won’t change anything, will it?
bookworm – good point – could be. I thought for sure he would “act” old and infirm in front of the attorneys, but he strode into the courthouse in a custom made blazer, all thin and fit, so I guess his ego wouldn’t let him use a cane or anything.
veryhappy – that’s the million dollar question – unless we are going before a judge, I don’t think it will change anything. I think it’s like any other negotiation – he wants X; I want Y; we each agree to give up something to get Q.
I think he’s trying to look infirm so that he’ll get a larger share in the split.
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$160k is the uncovered part. He had rotator cuff surgery (not sure how elective that was) plus other procedures I'm not familiar with. I think he is taking advantage of my plan to check out every ache and pain. <<<
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Yikes! $160k in uncovered? I sure hope you’re not stuck paying for this.
^^
As a medical professional, I’m amazed at that uncovered amount. What kind of medical insurance has that kind of copay/deductible and what’s the point of having an insurance if you end up with that kind of bill?
The only thing I can think of is uncovered services like plastic surgery or other elective procedures.
160K is a lot of procedures, even for the completely uninsured.
I am also surprised by the uncovered amount
Yeah, I racked up $250k in bills on my heart attack and uncovered would have been, at worst, $6k (assuming I hadn’t yet covered my deductible and that some portions were out of network). <y medical bills run about $125/yr between chemo and other visits. Do you have copies of the EOBs to document the procedures that were done? Has he ignored network vs. out-of-network? Even if you are carrying catastrophic coverage only, those kinds of bills should get you to the point where the out-of-pocket is reached. $160k sounds very fishy to me.
I’m thinking he had elective work done, too. I’d demand discovery on the EOBs and maybe a forensic accountant/medical billing expert to look at what procedures were done, etc. Have you paid any of these copays?
Haven’t been through it, but just sending my best wishes.
I’m guessing that there were some cosmetic things done. It’s not unusual for people to combine some procedures (cosmetic with non-emergency) to save on some costs.
The OP may be between a rock and a hard place. I don’t know if she can demand to know/see the bills to see what the charges were for, if she’s expected to pay for them.
Wow, the most we would normally pay out of pocket AS A FAMILY for medical in a year is $7500, excluding cosmetic and out of network bills. Yikes to $160K!
Yikes, I know I’d be deducting or demanding a deduction of $160K off his cash settlement if i found out any of the expenses were not medically necessary.
Yes, I’d require a full itemization of the bills and find out why the total is so high. I’d get the court to give me full credit to each bill that is out of network and each one that is not medically necessary. I’d also have him explain all efforts he made to get bills reduced.