Some background:
I filed for divorce in Feb 2014.
After discovery and 2 court appearances before a court referee, we are now meeting on July 29 to have a settlement conference (me, my attorney; him; his attorney). I have an idea of what I should prepare before the meeting and I will consult with my attorney prior to. I am interested in hearing from: divorced parents who have gone through this before and/or divorce attorneys who have any tips on negotiating strategy/preparation.
Thanks in advance. Let me know if you need any more info from me to give me a response.
You might want to include some basic facts to your situation.
I believe that:
both you and your H have your own separate businesses
you don’t have any minor aged kids, but do have 2 kids in college
correct/add what you think is relevant.
OK sure – I was more interested in strategy but here are the salient facts: 2 kids; one 19 (just finished 1 year at CofC; one 22 (17 credits to go to graduate from Emory). We are both self-employed; I have been the primary earner. My business is doing poorly but he will make a claim on it. I feel he needs to prove that claim (he did nothing to build the business; kids were 8 and 11 when I started it thus in school most of the time).
He has not yet sought maintenance (alimony) because I think he prefers to get cash up front instead. He has said he does not want to contribute to either kid’s education (even though we’re in NY where a judge might rule otherwise given the precedent of 3 years paying private tuition for DD; we both have master’s degrees which indicates we both value education).
Another issue I want to raise at the conference (interested in hearing from anyone if they’ve gone through this before) is that since I filed, he racked up $160k in medical bills (he is covered by my plan). I was told not to remove him. Oxford has paid approximately $20k of the billed amount. Since I am the subscriber on the plan, I consider this a pending liability for me. I want him to either prove he has paid these bills or have an adjustment due me in the settlement conference.
You may not get an adjustment. I am familiar with a situation (in CT, so different) where the wife continued to max out the credit cards even after she filed for divorce and the H had moved out. The judge treated that spending as if they were still happily married and there was no problem.
Your lawyer will be the best person to explain what to expect. Settlement conferences are governed almost entirely by local practice. (I have no knowledge of or experience with family law).
Yes I have her info already – just looking for insight from the individuals who have gone through this to add perspective or something she may not have mentioned.
veryhappy – that’s awful – I guess they were joint cards? Which I would have cancelled right away if we had any
The husband (who is my friend, not the wife) was instructed not to make any changes in anything, as it could have been perceived that he was being a mean guy.
Usually I’d say concentrate on the long term, but in your case I’d try to have everything over and done with as of the date of dissolution. Try to have no continuing obligations, be it insurance or retirement or interest in the business. I don’t see any upside to you that he be required to make college payments in exchange for your splitting some of his bills now; you know he won’t pay, so don’t obligate yourself.
If you didn’t sign the papers at his hospital or doctor’s appointments, it’s unlikely those businesses can hold you responsible, just like they can’t hold the insurance company liable. The court might say those are family obligations, but I don’t know what NY law says about the debts after the petition for divorce is filed. Many will use that date of filing as the cut off date, but some won’t.
You didn’t mention the house. Is it to be sold? I printed out all the items I bought for house, from Quicken.(he hadn’t contributed to towels, dishes, silverware, pictures, etc).
Thanks twoinanddone – good advice – yes, I don’t want to count on him making any payments in the future because I know he won’t make them. Good point about the medical bills. I just know that these people go after anyone they can.
veryhappy – poor guy – not good advice. I sometimes wonder if these attorneys know what they’re doing/saying.
bookworm – didn’t mention the house because it was already sold pre-filing. My attorney said to get that “off the table” so to speak. I knew once I filed he would a) refuse to sell or b) we’d get lowball offers once people knew it was “a divorce situation.” We sold above the asking price.
OP - My divorce was filed in NY. I spent $2500 on my divorce. You still know your ex, what he wants and what are his hot buttons. Use that information to get the the best settlement. If I were you I would pay him off so he would have no claim on your future earnings and 401K, even if it means you would be responsible for your kids’ expenses until they are self supporting (it is finite, whereas alimony could be longer term). Having alimony payments would limit your ability to get credit in the future. I would also try to be on a good term with him until the separation agreement is signed.
Thanks oldfort – good to connect, despite such a sad topic. Good advice re: alimony. Yes I want no future financial ties with him. I have tried to remain on good terms (at some point, we’ll be together at DD’s wedding). He regrettably has taken the scorched earth approach. Angry and bitter. I’ll keep extending the hand of friendship.
Good luck. I know it’s a stressful time.
You probably already know all of this, but here goes - Try to know the law and strong tendencies related to your situation before you go in.
Hopefully you have some idea what he really cares about, so you can use that to negotiate what you want.
Strategy really depends on the people involved. Some are very reasonable, but many, not so much.
Figure out what you really care about, but Try not to be too emotional, because that may give him more leverage.
Know the total cost for the kids education, so you can put that on the table.
If you know the monetary value of the different assets up front, that should help too.
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I am familiar with a situation (in CT, so different) where the wife continued to max out the credit cards even after she filed for divorce and the H had moved out. The judge treated that spending as if they were still happily married and there was no problem.
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I have known of situations like this, but it was because the “primary breadwinner,” wasn’t providing adequate support during the separation and therefore CC’s were used “to live on”. However that may not be the case with your friend.
Re: Scorched Earth
In the OP’s case, if the ex tries to make her 50% responsible for those medical bills, would it matter if the treatments were elective or not?
Is the OP vulnerable if her ex has little profit from his business and he is near or at retirement age?
He’s not trying to make me 50% responsible. He’s trying to make me 100% responsible. I know him. He won’t pay the bills and since I’m the subscriber, collection agencies will come after me. I’ve already been billed for procedures he had done during the marriage (and I had to pay them).
He has zero profit from his business and is at or near retirement age (although how you retire when you’re self-employed is a question). He could have taken SS benefits (and I could have received benefits) but chose not to. He has chosen to not take alimony because he just wants cash.
Good luck, Classof2015.
The divorce laws do not make any sense to me. You sound like an honest, level headed, hard working person and just because the marriage is ending you have to share half of everything with him? That simply doesn’t make sense legally or morally to me and my answer would be pretty near the same if it was M against F. I get that the F usually raises the kids and all that, thereby sacrificing her income potential, and in that case that is fine, to a degree, but in a case like this I think he should get nothing or close to nothing. He didn’t earn it, why should he get it? It isn’t like he raised the kids!
Thanks, GoNoles85. I appreciate the support. Believe me, it seems so horribly unfair. I believe in equality, but he lived off me for years, didn’t contribute, I paid for full time sitters. But it was a long term marriage (27 years) and in NY, “equitable distribution” (which is not the same as a 50/50 split) is the norm. I try to be positive, but this is not how I thought things would end up, especially because (as you said) I am hard working and honest. I’m seeing that not everyone is.
I wanted to get out 10 years ago, but all the divorce attorneys told me I’d have to pay alimony and CS and I probably wouldn’t get custody (since I work outside the home). That would have broken my heart.
Reminder: Even if a judge assigns certain debt to him, if it is in both your names, the creditor can still come after you. I’ve seen several situations like this, and it was pretty ugly.
With respect to the medical bills, I don’t see what you having been the one in whose name the policy is issued has anything to do with who is responsible for paying copays, deductibles, or co-insurance? The balance after insurance is an issue between your soon-to-be-ex-husband’s medical providers and your soon-to-be-ex. (Though I’d guess it is likely that some or all of the medical expenses will be considered marital debt. Medical expenses aren’t quite like running and buying an expensive sports car.)
Good luck. Remember, at this point it is just business.
Suggestion: It would be very, very good if the agreement stipulates that he will timely file any requested financial aid forms each year.
Good luck,Classof2015! I’m cheering for you. And no matter how it goes, remember how great it is to be rid of that deadbeat!