Divorce

<p>I announced on another thread that my parents were getting divorced. Now the reality of it all sets in. In the hustle and bustle of finding a lawyer, etc., I guess I’m getting lost in all of it.</p>

<p>I just had a few questions:</p>

<p>(1) My father is considered to be the primary breadwinner of the family, with my mother… well, she makes some, but nowhere near as much as my father. Legal fees are going to be immense, and most likely my father will be able to recover from the financial blow faster than my mother. Is there anyway to defray the legal costs onto my father, since he is the petitioner for divorce?</p>

<p>(2) There are property issues at stake here; but all my mother really wants to do is protect the primary property that we live on. We’ve received a settlement offer from the petitioning party, offering to hand that 50% (under community property laws) of the primary property to me, under a trust (the document does not state who is the trustee, probably my father, in which case that undermines the whole purpose of the trust anyway). </p>

<p>Problem is, as I soon discovered, three other properties (and the company that my father owns) are listed as sole and separate property. I am under the impression that by law, you can’t list something as sole and separate without the consent of the other spouse OR you are separated with the intent to separate (Baragry, 1977). My father has a) not accomplished the former or b) used fraud [forgery] to obtain my mother’s signature and c) has appeared in public several times with my mother solely for the sake of maintaining the appearance of a marriage, something that I remember Baragry addressed.</p>

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<p>Ignoring all of this (the legal mumbo jumbo), however, I’d like to mention that my mom is growing tired and weary of fighting my father. She has already expressed a loss of interest in pursuing the divorce; she just wants to sign it on his terms and move on. But from all the damage that my father’s caused to my mother, I tell her I think it’s unfair that she lets him get away with adultery like this without any consequences (financial or otherwise).</p>

<p>My mom isn’t Internet-saavy, and she has a limited knowledge of the English language, with almost no experience in navigating legalese. I do the research for her because she asks me to, but at the same time, I see the tired expression on her face. </p>

<p>All the parties involve know that my father will most likely marry the illegal nonresident that is pressuring him (and has been pressuring him for years) for a “green-card marriage.” My father’s family is pushing my mother to take my father back (which she has no intention of doing, partially because my father has no desire to come back to our home). </p>

<p>Above all this, however, I’m confused. I know I’m a minor and I know I shouldn’t dip my hand into the legal affairs; however, I don’t have much of a choice. Someone went over the details of the case (pro-bono, thank goodness, as the cost of these attorney fees are going to start to rack up) and said that not all attorneys have knowledge of this sort of thing, so the person who advised me (my Mock Trial instructor) told me to stay close to my mother and to alert the lawyer on what he/she needs to be alerted on.</p>

<p>I don’t want my family to waste $100,000 on a silly divorce case when that money could be spent on something else. (like my college tuition… hehehe… little bit of humor in dark times never hurt). Does anyone have any advice?</p>

<p>Your mom is wounded, its like she has been in a battle, and just wants to surrendor. Tell her there is no rush and to catch her breath. Is her family around at all? And with property in a trust, is it any use to you beside living in? Can it be borrowed against for college?</p>

<p>Document everything you know. About the properties, the affair, the “marriage”, everything. It may be needed. </p>

<p>What kind of relationship do you have with your Dad? Has he pledged to pay for your college education? What has he told you? And do you trust him?</p>

<p>I ask because if you “choose sides” with your mom, will you lose more than you might gain? If you don’t think you are going to get much from dear old dad, I would fight tooth and nail. But, if he has promised to take care of you and your education and has set something up for that, then…you might want to step back.</p>

<p>This is so tough. I would go to my cities department of childrens’ services and see what advice they might have for legal advice. Also, there are many immigrant groups that have attorneys that might be able to give you some more advice. </p>

<p>I am sorry about your dad. He is your dad, but he is also a bit of a jerk, IMO</p>

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<p>No, there’s no relative use. I don’t think it can be borrowed against for college. It’s for the sake of appeasement; my mother has explicitly stated that she wants 100% of the property because my father is… a financial idiot. We’ve lost a tremendous amount of money through my father’s gambling, and now my mother wants to protect the last ounce of financial stability that we have.</p>

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<p>My mother’s taken care of that.</p>

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<p>I don’t trust him. He tries to appease me with cash, but I am planning to fly college solo, with little to no parental support. The parental EFC will be covered by me taking out loans. It’ll be harder for me, but I’ll manage. It’s not like it’ll be the end of the world. Plenty of people have put themselves through college with a huge deficit, but made it out well in the end. </p>

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<p>There is nothing there for me. He squandered away the only savings I had as far as college went into a failed construction project, and I am still bitter over that. </p>

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<p>Quite frankly, I think I’m too old to be considered a real ** minor ** in this case, considering I’m only three months away from an age where the law considers me to be legally-cognizant and aware of everything that goes on. </p>

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<p>Jerk is probably a euphemism.</p>

<p>IN ADDITION: My financial aid officer at Georgetown has agreed (if I choose to do so) to review my family’s case, under separated/divorced circumstances. However, I feel I’m a bit overwhelmed to do so at this point, so I’ll stick with my original EFC.</p>

<p>Did you email your mother’s lawyers re: these questions? Are they really estimating a $100k legal bill?</p>

<p>My mother hasn’t hired a lawyer yet, but is planning to do so. Since she has a limited knowledge of English, she’ll probably hire a Korean lawyer who likes to charge exorbitant fees.</p>

<p>:/… California law does allow for the respondent, if financially qualified, to request that the Court order the petitioner pay up the sum of attorney fees. We may choose to go that route, instead.</p>

<p>Since you appear to be the stronger negotiator, perhaps you should be involved in the hiring? After all, it sounds like you are protecting your future assets.</p>

<p>Also, if the lawyer has to be Korean, can she find a young Korean woman? (Sorry, but we once did a project with 2000 Koreans and 100 Korean engineers and I found that Korean men don’t have the MOST egalitarian views…). Can’t be too big of an ask in LA, right?</p>

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<p>I understand the concern, and she is planning on hiring a Korean woman, I believe mid-40s. Undergrad Cornell, JD from UCLA. Looks decent enough.</p>

<p>This really needs lawyers. Every state is different. In some adultery is an issue, in many it is not. $100K is not worth spending if the total assets are under a half million. If they are over that, it may be worth legal fees. Divorce is never easy or cheap! Hang in there!</p>

<p>As tired as your mom is, this is a situation that really calls for legal advice. As long as the lawyer specializes in divorce work, you can be fairly certain that (a) the lawyer knows what he/she is doing, and (b) the lawyer knows how to get a court order requiring the husband to pay the legal fees. Some lawyers are more expensive than others, but you at least need someone who is going to make a determination as to whether the properties that your father claims are “separate” do indeed fit that category. (If the properties were purchased or partially paid off with earned income during marriage, they are not “separate” property, even if solely in your father’s name). </p>

<p>The proposal to put property in your name in trust could be a very bad choice in terms of financial aid – and I think it sounds like an effort on the part of your dad to play you against your mother. But if there is a lot of equity in the house and you become a 50% owner, it could increase your EFC radically. So hold off - and tell your mom that she cannot approve any settlement that includes money being put in your name (whether or not in trust) without your first discussing it with the financial aid officer at your college. </p>

<p>As soon as a lawyer is in the picture, you need to let go… even if means that your mom ends up with an unfair settlement. I say this simply because it is too much for a kid your age to be responsible for – and you really don’t have the experience or knowledge to second guess everything the lawyer does. There may be all sorts of compromises made simply because the cost of litigation outweighs the value of maintaining the battle. Your mom is clear in her mind as to what she wants: the house. In California, that may not be such a bad deal. Your father is playing games with his offer, but he’s already shown that he is willing to give up his interest - so with a lawyer properly representing your mom, I think it’s likely that your mom will end up with the house. If your dad is so dead set on creating a trust for you, maybe he can fund one with cash. </p>

<p>But bottom line - let the lawyers handle this. It is going to be a rough ride emotionally for everyone – but it isn’t fair to yourself or fair to your mom for you to take on more responsibility than you can handle. You are reading about what the law ought to be - an experienced lawyer knows what the local practices are and what judges are actually likely to decide. The two aren’t always the same. So your advice may end up being technically correct, but practically wrong.</p>

<p>The only legal advice I’ve been giving my mom is to go find a lawyer, and a decent one at that. One who recognizes what’s at stake here and sees that this isn’t a clear open and shut case.</p>

<p>In actuality, I just want to run away from it all. I want to leave California as soon as possible and just, urm, try to put my own mind at ease. As soon as I know she’s in capable hands, I plan on pulling myself out (of this situation, and resume normalcy… whatever this is).</p>

<p>How long do cases like this take? Would you advise that I talk to my father? (I’ve ceased communication with him ever since the divorce papers were served).</p>

<p>Why don’t you and your mom make a decision on which lawyer to hire, engage her-- and then make a list of questions to forward in an email ahead of a meeting?</p>

<p>CA divorce law is pretty straight forward. Everything is community property: 50/50. Your dad can give you anything he wants, but your mother shouldn’t sign any transfers. There really is no guess work in CA. If your parents don’t have million or anything complex like unrealized stock options, the most cost effective solution is to hire a joint mediator.</p>

<p>Zagat, you are right about the law being straightforward, but things can get complicated when there are disputes about property - and if the parties can’t agree, you can end up with forced sale of property. “Everything” is not community property – only that which was obtained during the course of the marriage with earnings or community funds is community property. So property obtained by gift or inheritance would be separate. Things can get very complicated in a dispute. The father claims that 3 properties plus the company he owns are his sole and separate property – so its going to take some legal wrangling to sort out what community property interest the mom has. It just never works out so easily as a 50/50 split, because many of the assets are not liquid, and people who have been married a long time tend to have commingled funds. </p>

<p>You are also right generally about the value of a mediated settlement, but it sounds like Tlaktan’s dad is intent on taking advantage of his wife - and he does have a lawyer, which means that the mom needs her own lawyer too at this point, at least to advise her of her rights.</p>

<p>Dear Tlaktan:
I am sure you are cast as “responsible male young adult” at the moment in your mother’s life and we all appreciate how much she is depending on you for moral support and for ventilating at the moment. Of course, you wish to make enough progress to have some peace of mind before you leave her to begin your studies and new life. This is going to be elusive, because it is her job to work through this difficult passage in her life and find a better place. You must get ready to leave her realizing you can’t control how they get this acrimonious separation settled. It will get settled and you will have very little influence on how. Make sure your Mom has a sharp lawyer and encourage her to get a therapist for this year. She does need emotional support. Otherwise, you are not really a “player” in this marital split.</p>

<p>Georgetown is not going to rescind your support and they might even prove to be most constructive/helpful during the times you have to update your financial picture…they have experienced students with divorcing parents before you. </p>

<p>Be confident. Focus on studies and friendship. It is OK to express much love and support to your parents as they separate but you can’t control how badly they treat each other at this juncture. Having “been there” at your age,driven my Mom to counselors, sat up at night while she ventilated, sat in the parking lot when she saw lawyers, shopped for Divorce paperback books in college bookstores (?) and mailed them to her, valiantly accepted my fathers new partner(s), watched my father spend his money on property and not tuition…I know two things:
You really are “in the soup” and in a family crisis at the moment and I recognize how hard it is to back away from this situation as your mother is very vulnerable but sorting out the estate issues is not appropriate for your age and time in life…and Number Two, you must find some comfort zone, some personal permission to set up some boundaries this fall (get a coach at Georgtown for this express purpose) because most of your advise to your Mom and work on her behalf is of absolutely no use whatsoever, yet it exhausts you and strains you and profits very little for anyone. Your father is going to be “behaving badly” in order to exert control over his estate and there is really nothing you can do about it and who knows how long it will take before your mother’s lawyer can help her get the best settlement possible. Time will help everyone. Your mother needs a lawyer and also a personal counselor to deal with things like betrayal, hurt and anxiety about her security. This is too much to be on your plate. Both of your parents need to take your emotional well-being more into consideration…starting up a new life at Georgetown is going to take all you’ve got! If your parents are not able to screen out some of their angst in contacts with you, a college counselor at Georgetown can help you decide how much time to devote weekly to listening to divorce woes and advise you on how to gently set boundaries on the subject since this is not your divorce! You need to be a good son but not a therapist or lawyer son at this point.
You may not have the financial security that you deserve at the end fo this divorce, but you have a great deal of promise in your life regardless. You will be able to manage and cope regardless of whether or not your father is generous or if he is irresponsible. You can do it…you can make it through college either way. Get more comfortable with the unknown and accept that you can’t control how this will turn out. Just be the best person you can be in your world. And here is the kicker from my experience at your age: Just when you have sacrificed a great deal of your emotional health to listening to your parents’ angst and suffering sagas, and worried yourself to death when you should be a giddy self-centered college coed…one or both of them is going to turn up extremely surprised to be much much happier just around the bend! Seriously! There is life after divorce; they just don’t know it yet. You are going to see them become more stable and happier adults someday. This “season in Purgatory will pass.” You are no doubt a loving son and doing your best. Hang in there. Take care of yourself. Your life with your peers also matters so embrace that. Don’t let their current unhappiness and strife define your present or your future emotional health, and do find a trustworthy adult to sort out coping with this divorce after you get settled into Geogetown.</p>

<p>tlaktan, which parent is taking custody of you anyway?</p>

<p>Calmom, it really is black and white. If the property was bought during the marriage it’s community, if not, it isn’t. But I do agree that your mom needs a lawyer to help “clarify” the facts.</p>

<p>No Zlagat, it is not “black and white”. Are you a lawyer? I am, and in California, so please don’t try to teach me California law. If it was black & white people wouldn’t need a lawyer. </p>

<p>Very simple example:</p>

<p>Property acquired by H. before marriage. Property is valued at $200K dollars, with outstanding mortgage of $100K.</p>

<p>During marriage, H. pays off mortgage – total pirincipal & interest payments =$125K</p>

<p>At time of separation, property is worth $500K.</p>

<p>What is W’s community property interest?</p>

<p>tlaktan - I hope you will carefully consider all that calmom as said, as she has the expertise in this area. Also, her advice that you “let go” once a lawyer is in place is very, very wise.</p>

<p>My suggestion would be that you be involved, right now, in interviewing and helping your mom select the attorney. You may be better than your mother at evaluating the attorney’s qualifications, ability to address the key issues, etc. Once you have re-assured yourself that your mom has a good attorney, you will have done the very best for her that you can.</p>

<p>Point well taken Calmom. My good friend is a former divorce lawyer and current divorce mediator who many wealthy people come to having wasted major bucks on divorce lawyers who like to make it seem complex. The issue is there is a formula for all of these things in CA. In many other states that’s not the case and judges get to make random decisions making an expensive lawyer more worth the money.</p>

<p>try asking the posters and attorneys over at <a href=“http://www.divorcenet.com%5B/url%5D”>www.divorcenet.com</a>.</p>

<p>Re: lawyers. Finding a match with an atty is like finding a match in a college. Not every “good” lawyer is right for your mom. If she wants to go to war, there’s no point in hiring someone who is notoriously calm and wants to mediate everything. OTOH, if your mom wants to cooperate, there’s no point in hiring a shark. </p>

<p>Divorce actions can take years to complete. Your mom should put effort into selectiving the right atty and sticking with him/her for the duration. </p>

<p>Since your dad only recently served the papers, your mom shouldn’t feel rushed into anything. She needs time to absord the idea. I hope your mom doesn’t give away too much in her haste to be done with it. An atty should be able to tell her how much time she can take without losing anything. What’s the rush?</p>