<p>*I don’t think people always include it in their vows (although there are some traditional vows – can’t remember what denomination - that talk about worshiping the other person’s body.) *</p>
<p>Didn’t know there was denomination that included that in its vows…wow…</p>
<p>Anyway, yes, there is a presumption of sexual activity in marriage - after all it’s the sex act that consummates the marriage. A “kissless” marriage is more easily legally annulled. However, that does not suggest that any spouse has the right to sex whenever they want it. No one owns another’s body. And, obviously, forcing sex within marriage is morally and legally wrong.</p>
<p>I once read that women are like crockpots, they take awhile to heat up, while men are like microwaves…any little thing gets them going.</p>
<p>And, I should add that the crockpot’s heating can get suffer a full day’s power failure if during the day the H said that she’s fat, yelled at her over some insignificant detail, put her down in front of others, called her a name, etc. </p>
<p>I know someone whose husband gets some kind of jollies by putting her down in front of others. I know another whose husband told her that she can’t wear a two piece bathing suit unless she loses a few pounds (she’s not fat). I doubt any of these men put 2+2 together and realize why their wives aren’t “raring to go” at bedtime. hmmmm.</p>
<p>Below are the words in regards to worshipping with the body. Here is a clip of the vow I was referring to included in an article. I went to a wedding where these vows were used – in fact, I was a bridesmaid now that I think about it.</p>
<p>"Cranmer’s marriage rite, which survives in large part in the English 1662 prayer book, is in many ways quite conventional. But besides giving us the “Dearly Beloved” heard in so many movies and soaps, Cranmer inserted in the marriage vows, “With my body I thee worship and with all my worldly goods I thee endow.” (Bishop Paul Marshall, Diocesan Life, 1997.)</p>
<p>I know someone whose husband gets some kind of jollies by putting her down in front of others. I know another whose husband told her that she can’t wear a two piece bathing suit unless she loses a few pounds (she’s not fat). I doubt any of these men put 2+2 together and realize why their wives aren’t “raring to go” at bedtime. hmmmm.</p>
<p>The guys I know- are only too complimentary about their wives- usually their cooking.</p>
<p>My H is usually too clingy in public for my taste- I like to be ignored- if I wanted lots of attention from him, we would have stayed home!</p>
<p>But if he ever started giving me crap like the above-he would live to regret it.
;)</p>
<p>*
The guys I know- are only too complimentary about their wives- usually their cooking.*</p>
<p>LOL…my MIL **never **cooked so my H just raves about my cooking even tho I’m no gourmet! LOL He’s just thrilled to a home-cooked meal, he thinks he’s hit the jackpot!</p>
<p>My MIL cooks but " traditional".
Meat- veggie -starch
Meat- veggie -starch
repeat.</p>
<p>I am a bad wife cause sometimes we have * whole meals!* that are vegetarian.
( according to MIL)</p>
<p>He had * never* had Chinese food when I met him. ( he was 21)
I couldn’t believe it.
Now he eats Thai, Indian, Chinese, Japanese, and if I time it right, Vietnamese & Indonesian- but I haven’t gotten him to like West or East African food :(.
yet.</p>
<p>H & his golf night buddies were discussing Tiger Woods the other day. They decided that ALL men would cheat … it’s just that most don’t have the opportunity. I sighed, rolled my eyes, and told him that I was indeed fortunate to have such a short leash on him. ;)</p>
<p>^^^^
Makes you wonder how they would feel if they overheard their wives chatting with their friends saying that all women would cheat if they had the opportunity. I don’t think many men would like to hear that. </p>
<p>I’m reminded of a situation where the man was a serial cheater, but he came unglued to learn that his wife later cheated on him. </p>
<p>Anyone know of a situation where the other woman got mad to find out that her married lover was also still having sex with their wives (because the Hs were claiming to their lovers that they weren’t.)</p>
<p>Bullet and I were with a group of friends yrs ago and the cheating thing came up. I asked ifa guy cheats on his wife, do you think he respects or loves the woman he cheated with? They of course all agreed that it is possible to respect that woman? I than asked could you respect her for openly knowing she was an interloper. Of course they could because we don’t know the inner workings of the guys marriage was the common response. They also felt that they would still respect the guy too, and did not see him as flawed.</p>
<p>I then twisted the question. We all had DD’s (they were all @ 8 yos) I said now time warp yourself 20 yrs, How would you feel if that woman was your DD? All of the sudden the guy was a jerk and flawed, and they as a parent believed that they failed their child since she was willing to be an interloper. They would not have respect for her because she played second fiddle to a morally flawed man.</p>
<p>Men seem to forget that these mistresses are someone’s DD. If they would disapprove of their DD doing it, than they have to know that there is no defense or excuse, because it does take 2 to do the deed!</p>
<p>Advice to the guy who is thinking about cheating ask yourself if her family would think less of her? If your answer is “yes” and still go forward, than you don’t care about her as a person, you only care about yourself. In that case I pity your spouse and her because they were willing to settle for a selfish person instead of demanding someone worthy of their love.</p>
<p>I then twisted the question. We all had DD’s (they were all @ 8 yos) I said now time warp yourself 20 yrs, How would you feel if that woman was your DD? All of the sudden the guy was a jerk and flawed, and they as a parent believed that they failed their child since she was willing to be an interloper. They would not have respect for her because she played second fiddle to a morally flawed man.</p>
<p>Or, how would they feel if the victim wife was their daughter?</p>
<p>I remember when a distant male relative we knew left his wife/family for another woman. My dad was rather casual about the whole thing until we “twisted” and asked how he would feel about the guy if it had been the husband of our favorite older cousin (my dad’s fav niece). Oh my! Dirt bag! My dad had all kinds of foul things to say of such a guy. </p>
<p>Men seem to forget that these mistresses are someone’s DD.</p>
<p>People also need to realize that they lose all moral authority when it comes to this kind of behavior. When a cheating man’s daughter gets married, how can he expect his new son-in-law to be faithful to his beloved daughter? Doesn’t he realize that if his SIL cheats on his D, he can only consider himself as the bad role model?</p>
<p>One thing that bothers me is when women say that an unmarried woman who is having sex with a married man is an “equal partner” to the cheating, or that what she’s doing is just as bad. That statement comes under the guise of being equal and balanced to both genders, but really it is quite sexist, because those two actions don’t have the same moral value. </p>
<p>Think about it. Suppose you did something, say, purposefully maneuver to block someone from a promotion so that your chances of getting that promotion are higher. Is it more morally reprehensible to do that against a coworker that you barely know, or to your own sibling/spouse who you know desperately needs that promotion? Some would say that it is equally reprehensible, but I would bet that most would say that the second is worse. And something smaller-- a lie. Is it worse to lie to your family member, or to lie to a stranger? Almost all would say it’s worse to lie to a family member, because you have a relationship with them that you’re disregarding in that situation. </p>
<p>And now let’s talk about cheating. Cheating on your wife and sleeping with a cheater are not the same thing. When this action occurs, both parties, the cheater and the unmarried person sleeping with the cheater, in doing so are acknowledging that “the physical/emotional gratification of this affair are more important to me than the hurt that the person being cheated on will experience.” But the cheater is the husband of the person being cheated on, whereas the “other woman” is a stranger to the person being cheated on. Surely a husband has more responsibility to protect the emotions of his wife than the “other woman” does to protect the emotions of a woman she doesn’t know. The husband has created a civil and emotional contract with her that he must break in order to cheat, and the “other woman” hasn’t. Deliberating hurting your wife and deliberately hurting a stranger are not actions of equal moral value. And yet people continue to insist that it is. </p>
<p>Most people, in almost all situations, would say that it is worse to deliberately hurt a member of one’s family or another person that one has built a relationship with, than it is to hurt a stranger. And yet most women I know blame the “other woman” as much or more than they blame their husband when they’re cheated on. That doesn’t make sense.</p>
<p>I think bullet twisted the question improperly with her friends. I can see that the guy doing the cheating could respect his “other woman” but that doesn’t mean all of society would respect her. Her example of “would I respect my D if she were with a married man” doesn’t apply when comparing how the cheating guy feels.
Just because I might not respect my daughter, in her example, does not mean the guy cheating with her does or does not respect her.</p>
<p>*One thing that bothers me is when women say that an unmarried woman who is having sex with a married man is an “equal partner” to the cheating, or that what she’s doing is just as bad. *</p>
<p>I agree with much of what you said. You’re right, the married person is doing the “bigger wrong” because he/she is hurting their spouse and family.</p>
<p>I lost a very good friend because we disagreed about cheating. In the abstract, we had both agreed that neither of us would EVER get involved with a married man, especially if he had children. Over the summer, we went back to our respective home countries/states. In the fall, she brought up on her own how in love she and a married man were and how adorable the children were. She asked me how I felt and I said that we had already discussed this subject in the abstract and I still had difficulty with all the pain the is created in such situations. I honestly tried to be nonjudgmental but think she remembered the discussion and was uncomfortable because of that memory. </p>
<p>To my great sadness, we were never close after that discussion, even now decades later she won’t respond to any contact (I have tried and don’t know whatever came of that love or much else in her life since that point in time). I am sad because we had been closer than I am to some of my sisters at one point.</p>
<p>I have known many people who have been in counseling because of cheaters and also being children of cheaters and/or desserters.</p>
<p>FWIW, my hubby & my dad would strongly disagree–neither of them would cheat, tho they know & don’t respect a few folks they know who do. </p>
<p>In HI, with cheating, you run a very high risk of getting caught because it’s such a small town in many ways & there are so many interconnections. That said, I don’t think that is the reason they haven’t cheated – none of us would ever want to hurt those we love & the temporary thrill would in no way be worth pain to loved ones. Mom & dad have been happily married over 50 years & I think if either of them had ever cheated, we’d know.</p>
<p>n Europe, people are actually moving away from marriage.</p>
<p>Should it matter if you get the tax deduction or not?
Are you saying there are more polygamous relationships? Cyclical committments?</p>
<p>We are not ( in most neighborhoods) raising children as an extended family.
It is exhausting enough to raise children as a committed couple, to raise them by yourself or with uneven support is even more difficult.</p>
<p>Some people are just not wired to be married ( or have kids)
( doesn’t stop them though)</p>
<p>*H & his golf night buddies were discussing Tiger Woods the other day. They decided that ALL men would cheat … *</p>
<p>My H, my dad, and my FIL (who is now passed) would also strongly disagree. My dad would rather die than cheat on my mom. This is a man who after major open heart surgery tried to move over in his narrow hospital bed to beg my mom to sleep next to him and not go home. He couldn’t talk, but it was obvious what he was trying to do from his body language - they’ve been married 56 years. It brings tears to my eyes just writing that. </p>
<p>My H and my FIL have a strong ethical code that they live by…it’s an honor thing. Their word is their word. My FIL and MIL were married for over 55 years when he died.</p>
<p>It’s funny that that notion has seemed to long go by the wayside. There used to be a time when a decent person “gave their word,” you knew they meant it…come hell or high water. </p>
<p>I also remember when there was a time when a decent person never wanted to tarnish/damage “the family name.” Whatever happened to that notion??? Maybe we need to bring that back!</p>