<p>When I read these experiences such the ones related by morrism and mom2boys…I would really would like to have a magic wand to change their lives and to provide them with so much happiness.</p>
<p>Sorry…I get emotional. I don’t have a magic wand but you will be in my positive thoughts. </p>
<p>Many times…after the storm calm will reign.</p>
<p>I love the term “serial” bimbo! Although my ex has “long-term bimbo…” She’s a prison guard. Yeh, I keep my distance…</p>
<p>One of the other terrible things about betrayal and infidelity is that it is the gift that just keeps giving. Yes, you try to pick up and move on, but it’s never a clean cut. There are pieces, and then more pieces, and then more. MOm2boys is definitely correct-death would be far easier.</p>
<p>Esp. if the children are young, you have to deal with years of visitation, where holidays are spent, etc. Oops, I forgot–I signed up for “intact” family. Too bad the ex’s often view them as chattel and trophies, showing up only when it reflects well on daddy. (school awards, etc.) It’s easy to look good when they only spend 4 hours on Sunday eating ice cream and going to a ballgame. Meanwhile the nitty-gritty of parenting falls to the custodial parent.</p>
<p>The other terrible part is that I don’t think you ever, ever trust in the same way again. Last night, my H went to work at 7 am, got home at 10 pm. Now, he called me twice when he was late. I truly believe he would never, ever stray. (but then again, I was <em>positive</em> of this with H1.) But, on the rare occasions something like this happens, there are little nagging things popping into my head. No, he’s not doing any of the things on the above “suspicious” lists. Then again, neither did Joe Romeo.</p>
<p>Yes, the ex said it was all my fault. He cheated b/c I was a b***ch. Never mind they don’t have integrity, character, or values–nope, it’s always b/c we are b…</p>
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<p>Seems like a good sign to me.</p>
<p>I remember once (pre cell phone days) when I was out of town and had to stay out till past midnight (driving coworkers to a far-away airport). I got back to the motel and saw that H had called with the message ‘call when you get in’. I almost did not - it was 2:20 AM at home before I decided to go ahead and call. He really appreciated it, but started the conversation with the words ‘where were you?’. Next day I told my divorced co-worker about my doubts about calling H so late and he said ‘you did a very wise thing’. So perhaps your H did a wise thing with the 2 phone calls? </p>
<p>One advantage we had is that we both had many times when work demanded shift work, out of town work, huge overtime, etc. and we both understood that.</p>
<p>Hugs to those of you having to go through these very difficult splits. It really is incomprehensible.</p>
<p>I loved one part of the Nanny Diaries book, when the nanny asks mistress #2 why she wants the rich guy so bad - he cheated on wife #1 to marry mistress #1 - why wouldn’t he cheat on you if you ‘won’ him?</p>
<p>Honestly, I think some of these guys realize they have far more social capital (so to speak) than they used to have, so they go ahead and spend it on young bimbos. I quit reading scientist biographies when bio #3 discussed how mr. big scientist and wife ‘grew apart’ and he found wonderful, beautiful, fantastic young mistress. My heart still bleeds for the women who washed these guys socks and underwear for 30 years only to watch some young beauty on their ex’s arm at the Nobel ceremony. Sheesh.</p>
<p>MOm2boys is definitely correct-death would be far easier.</p>
<p>I know 2 sisters who lost husbands after long term marriages - one to a heart attack, the other to a bimbo. </p>
<p>the one who lost her husband to a heart attack told me that she felt that although her loss was horrible and shockingly sudden, she felt her sister’s loss was worse. She knew that her beloved dead husband would rather be with her, so that gave her comfort. She felt that her sister’s loss combined with the rejection element caused immeasurable pain.</p>
<p>She told me story over 10 years ago, and she still feels that way. She’s never remarried. She and her H had an incredibly close relationship and she doesn’t think she’d ever find someone like him. She’s happy with her children and grandchildren. Her sister is happy with her kids and grandkids, too, but still suffers from the immense pain when she has to see her ex and his bimbo at family functions.</p>
<p>I have to say something.</p>
<p>I am not diminishing the trauma caused when one partner abruptly changes course and behaves like an egocentric two year old, however, I also want to suggest that we don’t see the big picture, indeed it is impossible to see the big picture when we are inside our own head or our own bedroom.</p>
<p>Although I am sure it probably feels otherwise- the fact that a spouse ripped a hole in a longstanding & up to that point :(, successful relationship to focus on a short term diversion, doesn’t negate the love and honor that I presume they exhibited until yesterday.</p>
<p>I have the impression, when reading about the callous behavior of ( mostly) husbands on this thread, that while it is one thing to be able to vent about it, and get well deserved support, it is another to have others go on and on about what an awful person they are.</p>
<p>If they were really that horrible, we wouldn’t have married them in the first place, let alone be willing to bear and raise their children.</p>
<p>I agree that going outside the core relationship for physical/emotional connection with a third party, is a cruel breach of trust.</p>
<p>But it ( for me) doesn’t rank up there with ( for example) taking advantage of widows and orphans or developing countries. The people who dump toxic waste in a rural area and lie about it or the people who skew research results for medications or treatments. </p>
<p>Those things affect hundreds and thousands even millions of people and are often done for the most base of motivations, * money*. Compounded by the laziness of others who won’t take the trouble to speak out.</p>
<p>Yes your husband is a real dirt bag- but use the opportunity to prove you are a better person. You won’t regret it.</p>
<p>( on the other hand I saw a special on voodoo dolls)</p>
<p>*
If they were really that horrible, we wouldn’t have married them in the first place, let alone be willing to bear and raise their children.*</p>
<p>I don’t necessarily agree with that. When we’re 20-somethings, many of these guys haven’t exhibited any signs that a mid-life crisis will be in the future. </p>
<p>Also, when we’re dating, the same kinds of “issues” aren’t often present that can lead some to look for “excitement” or escape from the day to day boredom of married life…</p>
<p>I think that those who’ve vented here have needed to do so. Some are at various stages of the healing process (altho, for some, there never can be 100% healing because family obligations require the ex and his new love to be constantly be thrown in one’s face.)</p>
<p>“The people who dump toxic waste in a rural area and lie about it or the people who skew research results for medications or treatments.”</p>
<p>Obviously not every very successful person is successful because of deceit and unethical behavior, but some are. Some are cheaters in every sense. I’d guess at least 50%?</p>
<p>Some are cheaters in every sense. I’d guess at least 50%?</p>
<p>Good point- many just don’t think the rules apply to them.</p>
<p>I would also be concerned though that people who watched their lives fall apart will blame themselves, for not seeing it coming/not preventing it , especially when their " loving friends and relatives" are blaming the victim.</p>
<p>People can & do change in the course of the many years of a marriage. When my friends married, they & their spouses were well suited. They did grow apart, for many reasons. Also, there was definitely a one-side midlife crisis from the viewpoint of the family of the cheater and the desserted family. Yes, I’m sure there must be some redeeming qualities in the cheater but it still hurts a whole lot of folks for a very long time when such basic trust is betrayed. Recovery can be quite slow and sometimes incomplete. Yes, everyone moves on, but it does have lasting effects on all the relationships, as far as I can see, even decades later.</p>
<p>Yes, I’m sure there must be some redeeming qualities in the cheater but it still hurts a whole lot of folks for a very long time … Recovery can be quite slow and sometimes incomplete.</p>
<p>Very true. And from what we’ve read on this thread, some children who are now adults, have very painful memories of the devastation that their parents causes.</p>
<p>I know that some kids emerge rather well from such situations, but to me, the risk to children is like taking drugs during pregnancy. Some babies/kids can emerge without any ill-effects, but many do…and also…some problems don’t come out til later (learning difficulties, etc). The fact that some children don’t have any noticeable ill effects from drug use during pregnancy is not enough to justify doing so. Yet, I’ve noticed that some who cause these breakups like to rationalize that kids survive these things.</p>
<p>I think there is another form of cheating that very rarely gets talked about and that is cheating that is a sin of omission, rather than commission, if you will. I am referring to situations where one spouse simply decides to no longer have sex with the person they married, not because they are having an affair, but for various other reasons. I consider it a form of cheating because they are cheating their spouses of something that was implicitly promised when they made their marriage vows and something that everyone who is married has a right to expect from their spouse. I personally know three marriages where this happened – and in two cases it was the man who decided he no longer wanted to have sex with his wife, after she’d given him children, etc. In both cases the men had intimacy/mother issues and would not attend counseling of any type. In one case, the husband was very critical of his wife’s looks and, by any standards, she is very attractive with a lovely figure and a personality to match. In another case, it was the wife who made the same decision and wouldn’t go to counseling although her husband repeatedly asked and went by himself. They ended up divorced. </p>
<p>The stereotype is that women are always the sexual holdouts, but there are men who marry while biology is in overdrive and then, as they get older, psychology wins out and they withdraw and, yes, it also happens with women. The devastation to partners of either gender who get rejected is similar to what has been described by those whose husbands had an affair: the wondering of what is wrong with them that makes them so undesirable, the self esteem issues, the knowledge that they poured so much into the marriage and this is how they are treated, etc. It’s very damaging to those who get rejected and it’s a hard thing for a marriage to survive. While I don’t condone someone who is married going outside the marriage for sex, in cases like these, if a spouse does succumb to temptation, I would find it very hard to judge that person.</p>
<p>I have the surefire way to keep a husband from cheating. Don’t marry a cheater. Men, and women, cheat because they give themselves permission to do it. I don’t cheat because I am not a cheater. No one has the power to make me violate my vows. How can people abdicate their personal power like that and take themselves seriously? Why do otherwise rational people pretend that it make sense? It’s pathetic. </p>
<p>Of course, I know it’s not possible to accurately predict who will cheat and who will not but if people spent less time picking out an outfit for a date and more time getting to know the values of the person they are dating, it would a better investment of time.</p>
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<p>Yes. Of course, children do survive these things but should they have too? I’ve never met an adult who told me that their parents affair was a positive or even neutral part of their childhood. </p>
<p>Research has shown that both the belief that “divorce ruins children” and the belief that “if the parents are happier, so are the kids” are wrong. The average child experiences a two year period of difficulty, which they tend to make up for by the time they are 18. The strongest factor in how well a child does? It’s how the parents handle themselves; the parents don’t have to like each other but they do have to put the kids first and co-parent. Which is something that affairs can make much more difficult.</p>
<p>We have a long-standing deal. If either one wants out of the marriage, fine. But no cheating before that because we have a lifetime of co-parenting to do. We’ve even talked about it in marriage counseling because so many men are too damn lazy to get out of their marriage honorably and let the affair do it for them. I do not believe that my husband would cheat (because of his values, not my good looks although I do look good), but I needed him to understand how big an impact that would have on our ability to co-parent.</p>
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<p>We didn’t include that in our vows. Do most couples? I don’t have a right to my husband’s body nor he to mine. I find the idea that we do disturbing.</p>
<p>What is ironic is the advertisement posted to the left…talking about Bimbos…look to the left of this page!</p>
<p>I think there is another form of cheating that very rarely gets talked about and that is cheating that is a sin of omission, rather than commission, if you will. I am referring to situations where one spouse simply decides to no longer have sex with the person they married, not because they are having an affair, but for various other reasons. I consider it a form of cheating because they are cheating their spouses of something that was implicitly promised when they made their marriage vows and something that everyone who is married has a right to expect from their spouse.</p>
<p>I agree that sex shouldn’t be withheld/denied for minor reasons.</p>
<p>However, I’ve seen this happen over other issues…</p>
<p>1) One spouse won’t bathe/groom/brush teeth before sex, so he stinks.</p>
<p>2) One spouse is too tired because the other spouse refuses to help with home chores. How many men refuse to do their share at home, so their wives are busy, busy, busy until late at night, and the men are upset when she’s too tired for sex. </p>
<p>3) “Foreplay” is not just what happens right before sex. If one spouse has been rude and inconsiderate during the day, how is the other spouse supposed to be ready for sex at night? I realize that men can sometimes compartmentalize these things, but women can’t. IF there hasn’t been any kind of apology, etc, a woman is going to feel like a w#ore if she willingly jumps into bed after being put down and rudely treated during the day. As much as men say that they “need” sex, they need to understand women “need” to feel loved BEFORE sex occurs. </p>
<p>I once read that women are like crockpots, they take awhile to heat up, while men are like microwaves…any little thing gets them going.</p>
<p>^Lol’d at that last line. Nice one.</p>
<p>I don’t think people always include it in their vows (although there are some traditional vows – can’t remember what denomination - that talk about worshiping the other person’s body.) Anyhow, I think it’s an implicit assumption of marriage and there are actually medical malpractice lawsuits, etc. for things like “loss of consortium” etc. But I kind of think that “love and cherish” imply marital love which is expressed sexually. Seriously, are there people who marry thinking that conjugal relations are not a part of normal married life? I didn’t realize that was a questionable assumption. Actually, Christianity teaches that your body is not just your own once you are married (1 Corinthians 7), and that it’s wrong to deprive a spouse. Judaism also supports this idea that a person has a responsibility to the spouse. It’s not a statement of “you can never say no, you are on call 24/7” it’s a statement of “your body isn’t just yours if you’re married, because you do have a commitment to your spouse.” It seems to me that if someone wants to get married and not have sex, he/she should probably clarify that before the wedding as it seems to be a pretty wide assumption for most people that they can expect to have sex in marriage. I believe in the Catholic Church, non-consummation is grounds for an annulment – at least it used to be. </p>
<p>There was a thread here a while back on the question of whether or not spouses had an obligation to take of themselves physically for their partner. While that was a different discussion, it included the idea that when you are married, your health and your body aren’t just yours to squander away, but that you have an obligation to take care of yourself for your spouse. People took different positions, but no one seemed to strongly feel that a “the hell with what you want” attitude was appropriate.</p>
<p>My H and I were talking about the movie “Walk the Line” and we both agreed that it would be close to impossible to be faithful if a man had women throwing themselves at him constantly like that.</p>
<p>But my H put it in a nutshell - he would never risk throwing his life away to have an affair. I am his second wife; he lost his first wife to cancer. I know he was faithful to her and I am confident he will always be to me… unless of course he becomes a rock and roll superstar 
And I have been faithful to him, as I was to my first husband that I lost to cancer. Til death did us part…</p>
<p>I can attest to the damage that repeated cheating and remarriage can do to children. As an example, both my brother and I will be graduating from college/grad school next month and my father won’t attend either graduation since he will be busy with wife #4… what else is new…</p>
<p>Mom2collegekids, I’m not talking about those kinds of issues. I’m talking about someone just saying they are done with intimacy, just not interested anymore, etc. At the very least, those people should say, “Hey, if I’m feeling this way, I should figure out why and try to make it work if it’s important to my partner.” This, of course, assumes that it’s not a mutually agreed upon arrangement where both spouses are no longer interested and content to be married under those terms. I know marriages where that has happened – either for health issues or some other reason and the the marriage remains healthy. Then there’s no problem. It’s a problem when one person makes a unilateral decision that is unacceptable to the partner. And that’s a problem regardless of what the decision is really.</p>