<p>Interesting observation about men not leaving without leaving FOR another woman. I wonder if it’s because men either just plain don’t want to be alone and/or they don’t want to have to be responsible for everything their spouse may have been taking care of.</p>
<p>Vderon, I think you’re right on the money when you say: “Who knows. Maybe they were unhappy for all those years, stayed for the kids and decided that they wanted a new life while they still had a life to live.”</p>
<p>because men either just plain don’t want to be alone and/or they don’t want to have to be responsible for everything their spouse may have been taking care of.</p>
<p>Many men don’t like change. Leaving w/o another woman in the wings is like quitting a job without another one lined up. They want some assurance that they are going to something else. </p>
<p>They also are loathe to make a change unless they feel they “have” to (the other woman is pressuring, the wife has found out, etc). And, yes, many don’t want to have to do all the things that their wives now do for them.</p>
<p>While many men I know have left their wives for a girlfriend, I know of one woman who told her husband to leave because she had just had enough (no he wasn’t physically abusive). She had just decided there was more to life and didn’t feel she was supported in doing what she wanted/needed to do – wanted to have a life while she weas still able to have one. It was an adjustment for her, the kids & her ex, but she’s happier now than she was.</p>
<p>A male friend of mine broke up with his wife (when they were both young) because she wouldn’t stop her affair with a married man who offered her some of the “finer” things in life. He was bitter & had counseling for a while to get over it. He & his 2nd wife have an different marriage–frequent seperate vacations, no kids.</p>
<p>Sorry for the rambling, but I guess I’m saying it takes all types to make a world.</p>
<p>"I am amazed these days to see people divorcing after being married for 25+ years! There’s clearly something ‘jazzy bling bling’ that induces these long lived marriages to break. It’s usually the ‘other woman’! "</p>
<p>-I’m sure those M or W knew something was terrible wrong in their marriage before the cheating started: </p>
<p>For those that have been “deceived” or know someone that has been “deceived”, share with us your first hunch, gut feeling or premonition, those that you ignore. What did you do? Fight with your spouse or ignore it, did you take care of your marriage and yourself and brought that H or W to your life, did you rekindle or try to save your marriage?</p>
<p>*
For those that have been “deceived” or know someone that has been “deceived”, share with us your first hunch, gut feeling or premonition, those that you ignore.*</p>
<p>My girlfriend’s husband always insisted that they have an unlisted number. This was before cell phones. </p>
<p>They used to move frequently because he was in hotel management. After one move, she forgot to tell the phone company to keep their number unlisted. A week after a “hunting trip,” the phone rang and it was a woman who was very surprised to learn that Randy was married. Randy and this woman had quite the romp during the “hunting trip.” Since Randy thought his phone number was unlisted, he had told her his real name - which she used to get his phone number.</p>
<p>Another hint that this guy was unethical…When this friend and I met, she told me that her H had a child from a previous marriage that he NEVER visited. (He didn’t even pay child support until my friend insisted that he do - she sent the checks each month). He had some LAME reason for never visiting his son, which I told my friend was lame. She didn’t believe me that his excuse was lame. (He had told her that the divorce was so painful for him that he couldn’t bear to see his young son. I told her that regardless of the divorce between spouses, that has nothing to do with the child.) But, she believed him. </p>
<p>My friend forgave her H for the “hunting trip” affair, and soon they were transferred again. They sold their home, and were building a new home in their new location. Right before the move, he told her that he didn’t want her to move with him because there was someone else. She was left stranded…one sold home and one home under construction that she wouldn’t be able to move into!</p>
<p>He never visits their 2 kids, either. Oh, he also cheated on the next wife and left her, too. (when he was cheating on wife #3, he was telling her that he was visiting kids from wife #2). Ugh!!!</p>
<p>Regarding the waiting in the wings comment. I read an article many yrs ago where it stated statistically men remarry faster than women do. I had tallied in my head every person I knew that was divorced and who was remarried. In my small sampling I also saw that this theory mimicked my connections.</p>
<p>In the article they stated two reasons which also mimicked the people I knew.
<p>My BIL married my sister within 2 yrs of getting divorce (he was separated before they met). His ex did not remarry for @5 yrs, even though she dated him those 5 yrs. She actually married him the month after her alimony was reconfigured, BIL gave a big % up front for 5 yrs and then it dropped to child support only.</p>
<p>My SIL married my brother after 10 yrs of dating. It was him who did not propose earlier because he is 13 yrs younger he wanted to make sure she would be fiscally safe and would not propose until he could guarantee that standard of living.</p>
<p>My father remarried 18 mos after divorcing my Mom and on his death bed he stated it was because he didn’t want to be alone.</p>
<p>My Mom has never remarried because she never wants to remain in a marriage for financial reasons, and if she does she places herself in that jeopardy.</p>
<p>I know military widows who do not remarry because the minute they do they lose benefits and $$$.</p>
<p>It does vary, but I think a lot has to do with age. If you are young, you are more likely to try to start life over again, have more kids, etc. If you are older, and have decided that there will be no more babies, you see it differently.</p>
<p>I had always stated that if Bullet died or we divorced I would never remarry. It wasn’t from a fiscal point of view, but out of respect for him and our family. I would never be able to allow another man the right to reprimand or punish my children. It would be unfair to him to say we are a family, but you have no voice when it comes to my kids.
I would have a companion, but a companion is not a spouse, there are very clear cut boundaries regarding companion and spouse IMHO.</p>
<p>Yrs ago when Bullet and I were young (30 and 31 respectively), my brother and now his wife came to visit us in AK, with another couple. I thought it was INSANE, that this couple had been together for 15 yrs+ and never lived together. They actually lived next door to each other, and on purpose. This couple spent every night together, but went home to their own house at the end of the night, they shared rooms together on vacation. 15 yrs later I get it. They are committed to each other, but for them the commitment to each other is unspoken and the legal paper means nothing. Their children are grown, they expect each others partner, they just don’t need or want the Mr or Mrs of so and so. It does not reduce their love. It does not mean they are afraid of commitment. It just means that they respect each others feelings.</p>
<p>I will say on the flip side I think for young children it is important that if you live together, you marry, because children need that sense of security, especially if they are children of divorce. They need that stability and not worry that the shoe will drop again. My BIL (Bullet’s brother) has been living with his fiancee on and off again for 9 months. Her DD’s are 11, and I have a huge issue because the relationship is a constant on off and I believe that it hurts the girls emotionally. They at 11 will learn from experience that this is the norm. BIL and fiancee are actually hurting these girls. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>My Mom’s first hunch was we owned a second home in VT and Dad suggested we should summer there. We lived in NJ. He would spend the weekends with us, but M-F he was in NJ. </p>
<p>Her second hunch was he started to ignore their friends and made a new group of work colleagues she didn’t know…yep Dad had an affair that began at work.</p>
<p>The final was he came home 30 minutes later from work than he had been coming home over the past 10 yrs. 30 minutes seems like nothing, but add it all up and you get a blaring red light.</p>
<p>My Mom must have known something was up, because the way she caught him, was being the dutiful wife on purpose and bringing him lunch to work when he said he was too busy to meet her for lunch. She caught him in the parking lot with the mistress.</p>
<p>My sister’s husband suspected his 1st wife because all of the sudden she was having a girls weekly night out (used the excuse I am tied to the kids all day, you have a job where you can be an adult…in other words guilt!) Then she started to expand it to going to the gym, new wardrobe, etc. </p>
<p>My final example is that the husband was very territorial over his cell phone. If it rang and she was next to it, he would get agitated if she even reached for it to hand it over to him. She never searched his phone in the middle of the night for info., instead when the bill came she noticed a number that she could not figure out and called it from her best friends cell who she confided to.</p>
<p>The signs can be as simple as coming home late or even spoiling the spouse. Nobody should ever think the worst of the spouse because that can do just as much damage, but if you do have a gut feeling, I go back to my premise, talk to them and give them the chance to own up or calm your fears. Honesty and trust can be the make or break of surviving an affair.</p>
<p>*
My final example is that the husband was very territorial over his cell phone. If it rang and she was next to it, he would get agitated if she even reached for it to hand it over to him. *</p>
<p>Yep, I’ve heard of that one many times. However, some get clever and get a second cell phone (billed to work address) for their dalliances.</p>
<p>For those that do get a second bill there is another warning sign. They become territorial over the checking statement and credit card bills, because now they are hiding it in another form.</p>
<p>Last night DS2(15) and I watched a show and he asked me “if I believed women don’t really know?” I said “Yes, sometimes they don’t!”<br>
His response was: “Don’t you think they do, but choose not to?”</p>
<p>I asked if his opinion would change if they did?</p>
<p>He said “No, either way cheating is morally wrong, but I heard you and Dad talk about it and you never discussed what if she did know. You talked about having an affair is wrong, and that the spouse cheating should fess up. You never talked about the spouse who knew and waited for the other one to fess up!” (he heard Bullet and I discuss this thread)</p>
<p>It was an eye opening thing to remember that Bullet and I are very comfortable talking openly with each other, but sometimes there are tiny ears listening to the conversation.</p>
<p>FWIW, I was honest with him, and I told him "That if you want a marriage to work you address the fear or concern. Maybe you will be wrong, but at least your spouse knows you are invested and you want them. Maybe you will be right and at least having that knowledge will allow you to move forward regarding how to work on your relationship</p>
<p>For those that do get a second bill there is another warning sign. They become territorial over the checking statement and credit card bills, because now they are hiding it in another form.</p>
<p>Oh yeah! Mysterious restaurant bills showing up on the VISA bill and such. However, many cover for that by claiming that they went out with a friend and the friend gave him cash.</p>
<p>Some go to great lengths to cover things up…paying for things with cash, etc. </p>
<p>I know a guy who had all bills sent to work. I thought it was odd, but he said it was so that he could pay bills on his lunch hour. Now, I wonder if he was hiding something. </p>
<p>Last night DS2(15) and I watched a show and he asked me “if I believed women don’t really know?” I said “Yes, sometimes they don’t!”
His response was: “Don’t you think they do, but choose not to?”</p>
<p>I’ve know a few women that knew but “played dumb” because they feared that a confrontation would end the marriage, and they knew that they couldn’t afford that. These women just hoped that the affair wold be short-lived, and the guy would come to his senses.</p>
<p>As mentioned earlier, most families do NOT have the income to support two separate households, but even more so, most don’t have the funds to support two divorce attorneys AND also emerge without financial devastation. No one has even mentioned that. Divorces that involve long marriages, property, children are VERY expensive. </p>
<p>I’ve often wondered how many people who initiated divorces regret it after the financial devastation of attorneys fees and such. </p>
<p>I know someone who was grossly misled by her divorce atty. He led her to believe that with a $5k retainer, he could get nearly all the work done for her divorce. What a lie! He blew thru that retainer fee in no time. She ended up paying him over $20k.</p>
<p>^^^^</p>
<p>I’m not surprised. After a 4 1/2 year divorce process, and all the attorneys’ fees on both sides, my ex and I each ended up with < $30,000 in cash from what had once been a much more substantial joint brokerage account. And we never even got to trial; we settled before it reached that point.</p>
<p>I hate lawyers sometimes. Especially litigators; they’re the worst.</p>
<p>^^^</p>
<p>Some feel that once some attys see how much there are in assets, they cause the billable hours to add up.</p>
<p>So a previous poster wanted to know what my hunches were, the premonitions, what I did. </p>
<p>Well, let me tell ya, it is one horrible ordeal to go through. Put yourself in my shoes and imagine how you would feel when your spouse of 22 years is cheating on you. It is by far, the worst thing I have gone through in my life. There are many times that I feel it would have been far easier if he had died instead of cheated on me and left me. </p>
<p>What were the clues? There were lots of them and by themselves you could rationalize them, but collectively they painted the picture of an unfaithful spouse. I suspected fairly early, probably within 3 weeks of the affair starting. H is a physician and often worked late hours but now he was working late a lot! And his late nights were much later than usual. We always ate dinner as a family and now he was missing those dinners and eating dinner at work. He kept his cell phone with him all the time and even took it into the bathroom with him. I would find him outside or in his car talking on the cell phone and he would tell me it was work calling. A couple of times he smelled different and he said it was the new hair gel he was using. Then the crank phone calls started. Always when he was at work and always on my regular day off from work. Caller never said anything, just would stay on the line till I hung up. </p>
<p>The biggest clue was that he treated me differently. I could not do anything right and he let me know that all the time. He loved my cooking and now I could not prepare a meal right. Too salty, too sweet, not as good as usual, etc… He told me to shut up once and he never,ever said that to me before. He criticized the way I looked, the way I dressed, the things I did, what I said. He would tell me he was too tired to listen to me in the evening. I could on and on about things he said and did. He even accused me of hiding money and have secret bank accounts. </p>
<p>This just created an enormous amount of anxiety in me. What was I doing wrong? I tried to be better, I tried to cook better, I tried to listen and not talk and it didn’t make a difference. The anxiety was paralyzing. The fear that I was right to suspect an affair was overwhelming. I faced the loss of my husband, my home, my family life, my security, my whole damn world. Everything I ever thought to be true was possibly one big lie and I had no idea of how to cope with that. </p>
<p>Yes it is easy to sit there and say that I should have done something. I should have “fought” for my marriage. I tried but there was not a single thing I could have done that would have made a difference. He was so caught up in the affair and I was that bad wife, that I was doomed to fail. </p>
<p>It took me six months to gather the courage to confront my husband. Not once in those six months did I ever let on to my family or friends that I suspected this. To do that would mean that it was true and I just was not ready to face the fall out from that truth. When I confronted him, he admitted it and walked out. Within 48 hours he told our son that he was having an affair and he loved her. I found out later that he already had new credit cards, new checking account, an apartment all lined up. He already made plans to leave me; I just got to him a few days earlier than what he planned. </p>
<p>Before his affair, I would have shouted from the rooftops about my great husband and our great marriage. I had no clues before this that there was something “wrong” with our marriage. H went through a mid life crisis and found youth in a much younger woman. I could have worked on our marriage if there were obvious problems. But I could not fix the psyche of a messed up man.</p>
<p>mom2boys</p>
<p>wow!!! Your post should be printed in a relationship column. I remember reading an article about 10 ways to tell if your spouse is cheating, which included superficial things like new underwear, exercising, hair change, … When the spouse becomes verbally abusive, I think it is a sure sign that they are putting the other person down to justify leaving. When a person is truly having a casual affair (not that it doesn’t hurt the same), they can be extra nice and giving.</p>
<p>Someday the man will fall out of the infatuation phase, and regret boasting to the children about his new lover. Some people never grow up, and never put someone else first.</p>
<p>My relationship ended much the same way as yours. Weekends and evenings were often devoted to his sport, so much so that even the teen age son became suspicious. I felt great moving out and on, and wish the same for you.</p>
<p>That is what I think is so unfair…so you’ve met someone you want to throw your whole life away for…ok go do it…but it is so often prefaced with the kind of treatment mom2boys got…and she had nothing to do with this…all in the name of justifying himself, the cheater demolishes and demoralizes his wife. To any impending cheaters out there…please be a Man, do it, as much as possible, the honorable way…sorry for the reference to men cheaters…could be a woman too I know but I’m looking at it from a femal perspective.</p>
<p>mom2boys–WOW. How similar my sister’s experience is to yours. Almost everything. </p>
<p>A few differences. Mu Sis did confide to me, and not all details, about his change in behavior. I asked if she thought he could be having an affair and she said “No Way!” She explained his behavior on the fact that he had gotten some bad health news prior to when it all began. (Cancer, treated and cured, or at least gone for awhile, and very high cholesterol.) She nursed him through this. She figured this really scared him since he was close to 60.</p>
<p>The other difference is, she never confronted him . His bimbo called my Sis and told her. It was his 59th birthday and 5 days after their first daughters wedding. (After the fact, people noticed him texting at the wedding and wondered who he could be texting with.) My Sis did not believe it,but confronted him when he got home that night. He never denied it and was not willing to go to counseling or try anything to work things out. 30 years–gone.</p>
<p>He has never seen his D1 since her wedding. He gave up everything and moved away w/ bimbo. He also left incredible debt. My Sis (they) lost the house ( a beautiful one of a kind place) they designed, built and raised kids in. My Sis now lives in a rented townhouse while my BIL lives in a $500,000 house he bought w/ bimbo. I do not know how. But it is a fact.</p>
<p>mom2boys…</p>
<p>OMG…how horrible. </p>
<p>Does this man possess a conscience? How dare he tear you down during all that time just to justify what he was doing (you do realize that why he was doing that, right???). I hope you told him that, too. I know it wouldn’t have made a difference, but he would need to hear that YOU KNOW now that all those criticisms were just his way of convincing HIMSELF that you were disposable. What an A$$!!! </p>
<p>I hope you took him to the cleaners. </p>
<p>If you don’t mind telling, how did his extended family treat him after this? This is what often “gets me.” I hate it when the extended family treats it all like a broken boyfriend/girlfriend relationship and lovingly accepts the new partner.</p>
<p>BTW…did he marry this woman? Is he still with her? (I swear that there’s a 10th circle of hell for people like this).</p>
<p>I know he was tearing me down but I couldn’t help but wonder if there was truth in his words. Maybe I was wrong, maybe this was my fault. I know I felt like a terrible wife to even suspect him of an affair. What if I confronted him and he was not having an affair? What did that say about me? About my commitment to him? About my love for him? I tore myself into pieces agonizing about this. What kind of horrible woman was I to suspect him? And so when he said mean things to me, then it just reinforced my own negative feelings. </p>
<p>It wasn’t like he was nasty all the time. He still could be quite loving. He gave me an very expensive piece of jewelry and told me that I deserved it. To say that I was confused by all of this is an understatement. </p>
<p>H denies any of this behavior. Says that he did not say those things and says he did not realize he was doing it. But even 2 years later, he still says things to me that places the blame for everything on me. It still hurts when he does it but I am better about handling it. I know that I am not to blame. This is not my fault and every time he opens his mouth, I recognize the stupidity of his words and I can deal with it. </p>
<p>This whole thing just shattered me, destroyed me and I had no self esteem. It took awhile to pick up the pieces and have the strength to move on. I am still a “work in progress” but I am in a far better place than I was 2 years ago. I don’t blame myself for his affair. I know what my marriage was, I know what kind of wife I was, I know how I am as a human being. I know my worth and I hope I never let anyone destroy my sense of self again. I know that I will be fine and I know I will be able to have a rich and rewarding life. It won’t be the life I imagined all those years ago, but it will be a good one. </p>
<p>His family does not like what he did. They don’t talk to him that much. They keep in contact with me and frequently call me. They are quite supportive. He is still with her and I have no idea of how things are with them. She is living with him with her two young children. We are not divorced yet- still working on the details. </p>
<p>If anything, I hope this thread has opened up eyes for what infidelity is and what it does to a spouse, to a family. I am not usually this open to strangers as you can tell by the number of postings I have. But society has a way of turning a blind eye to the infidelity. People say stupid things like the spouse deserved it or it was the spouses fault. They will look at the new couple and see them happy and think that maybe it all worked out just the right way. We don’t confront the adulterers. We keep our mouths shut and secretly say that it would never happen to us, so there must be a good reason why it happened to them. We entertain them in our homes, invite them to the family gatherings and conveniently forget how that relationship started. I am not saying that we need to ostracize them or start putting them in the stockades on the public square, but people do need to speak up and tell them that it is wrong and there are consequences for that bad behavior. </p>
<p>I would not wish this on anyone. I am not kidding when I say that death would have been easier than this. I don’t know if karma exists, but if it does, then it won’t be pretty for him.</p>
<p>*I know he was tearing me down but I couldn’t help but wonder if there was truth in his words. *</p>
<p>good heavens…NO. </p>
<p>Were you perfect? No. But no one is expected to be perfect. He certainly was never perfect. Were you any of the things that he was implying? NO, NO, NO.</p>
<p>H denies any of this behavior. Says that he did not say those things and says he did not realize he was doing it. But even 2 years later, he still says things to me that places the blame for everything on me.</p>
<p>Well, he’s a liar, too. Should we be surprised. </p>
<p>And, what the heck is he doing still trying to blame you? ** If he’s so happy with his new life, why is he blaming you for the marriage’s demise??? That speaks volumes to me!!!** If he’s truly happy with his partner-in-adultery, then he should be thanking you for helping end the marriage. Yet, he’s blaming you? Hmmmmm…</p>
<p>*His family does not like what he did. They don’t talk to him that much. They keep in contact with me and frequently call me. They are quite supportive. He is still with her and I have no idea of how things are with them. She is living with him with her two young children. We are not divorced yet- still working on the details. *</p>
<p>I am so glad that they still keep in contact with you. 
That must help somewhat. </p>
<p>Well, I hope when the divorce is settled, you’ll get the lion’s share. {{{ hugs }}}</p>
<p>Yes, karma exists…what goes around comes around…and it won’t be pretty for him…nope.</p>
<p>So sorry to read about all the pain that has been inflicted on so many people by roving spouses/significant others. It is such a betrayal and so much worse when they tear down the spouse to justify their bad behavior. I’m heartened that it sounds like most have moved on to a better place, after a very tough time. My friends whose spouses betrayed them have also moved on and are more confident and at peace at this time. </p>
<p>None of my friends have re-married, tho I know at least one had an offer but encouraged the widower to look elsewhere (& he is happily in love now with a neighbor).</p>
<p>Originally, I assumed I’d remarry if hubby were to die, but due to financial realities, I really doubt it. I doubt I could find anyone like him again anyway. I do like being in a long term committed relationship tho, so I might end up like the couple described in a prior post. Heck, who knows what the future will bring?</p>
<p>My casual observations:
Of the friends whose spouses left & remarried (bimbo), most still appear to be looking for whatever (some have had serial bimbos). They also mostly have a strained relationship with their chlldren, who uniformly resent how badly they treated their moms (sometimes that improves over time). Their moms do encourage them to have some relationship with their fathers, otherwise I think many of them would have just cut him out of their lives. The moms are taking the high road and looking at the big picture for their kids and it just makes my respect for them that much deeper. For the most part, the families are all sympathetic to (& keep in touch with) the moms (& grandkids) and are upset with the way the moms were treated and not happy with bimbo, minimizing contact.</p>
<p>Momoftwoboys: "The biggest clue was that he treated me differently. I could not do anything right and he let me know that all the time. He loved my cooking and now I could not prepare a meal right. Too salty, too sweet, not as good as usual, etc… He told me to shut up once and he never,ever said that to me before. He criticized the way I looked, the way I dressed, the things I did, what I said. He would tell me he was too tired to listen to me in the evening. I could on and on about things he said and did. He even accused me of hiding money and have secret bank accounts. "</p>
<p>My eyes are wet…in tears in reading your story…how people could be so mean. I have read that what you have related above is a HUGE, a BIG sign that something is terribly wrong–criticizing the spouse and anything they do…</p>
<p>God bless your heart and I hope you are well compensated in life with a lot of blessings!</p>
<p>I wish you well and a huge virtual hug from all of us!</p>