<p>Our local paper each year highlights different high school seniors. These teens are chosen by their high schools teachers for a variety of reasons, not just because of academic success. Many of these students state that they plan to go to college and become doctors, vets etc. They also will list their college choices, sometimes the local cc or the nearby 4 year university which is a small step up from the cc. Some of these students may be “stars” of their high school but compared to the stats here on College Confidential, they are definitely average academically. There are always exceptions, but do these kids have a realistic chance to get into med school or is it just a pipe dream?</p>
<p>Kids who persevere get into med school or vet school. I imagine there’s a range of intelligence in those professions, with the really smart, hard working types ending up in the top med schools, and the average hard working types ending up in the lower tier schools.</p>
<p>To answer the question with which you started the thread – in most instances, no.</p>
<p>“Average” students do not get admitted to US medical or veterinary schools except under extraordinary circumstances. The standards for admission are just too high.</p>
<p>A lot of pretty good high school students say they want to go to med school because it’s a clear path, and it’s known to be a secure, respected and renumerative profession. Most, however, don’t have the drive or the desire to go the distance when they become acquainted with the realities of preparing for the profession. In addition, they go to college and become acquainted with other things that don’t require so much post-graduate schooling and financial investment. </p>
<p>My D, a rising college sophomore, gave up pre-med after realizing that she would have a miserable 4 years (for her) in college if she pursued it. It just wasn’t worth it to her. Then again, she didn’t want to be a science major.</p>
<p>I understand that there is some correlation between MCAT scores and SAT scores, so someone who does not test well is probably not bound for med school.</p>
<p>There are plenty of doctors and vets out there who did NOT go to top 50 undergrad schools. There are simply plenty of very fine students who do not attend the tippy top schools for any number of reasons…and yes…some of these very bright kids at lower tier colleges DO become doctors and vets and dentists, and lawyers and engineers…and and and.</p>
<p>Average? As in 3.2 GPA and 22 ACT? Rarely, although a kid can find his or her stride in college and show remarkable improvement. Nothing wrong with letting a kid try. It’s only when they demonstrate mediocre performance in college, but insist that the dream is realistic that I worry about them (I work for a TRIO grant;it’s my job to worry about them).</p>
<p>Another popular major for all kinds of students who probably won’t make it? Engineering.</p>
<p>But these kids are highlighted in the local paper because they’re not average. They may not be Harvard-bound (and neither are most of the people on CC), but I’d be willing to bet they were chosen by their teachers for this honor because they overcame something very difficult and did better than their backgrounds would have predicted. You don’t get to read about the truly average students!</p>
<p>They may not all go to med school, but they do appear to have some of the qualities that would allow them to go down that path if they chose.</p>
<p>One of the speakers at my D’s HS graduation last month was on the faculty at Harvard Medical School. His speech was really striking (although the topic, perseverance, was typical for the occasion) because he described himself as a very average student and gave believable anecdotes that backed it up. What he had, other than humility, was the desire to succeed and the willingness to work very hard. I kept thinking what a very patient instructor he must be and hoped that my own doctor had the benefit of being educated by at least one instructor like him.</p>
<p>Hard work and dedication matter just as much or more so than * brillance*</p>
<p>Average h.s. students can’t afford med or vet school. Doesn’t matter how bright they are. The median public and private costs to attend medical school are now $210k and $290k respectively. Average family income(even if they wanted to help with med. school expense) is around $60k. This is all on top of undergrad costs.</p>
<p>And yes, there are a ton of docs and vets who come out of second and third tier publics. There is a reason for it - if they are top students there, they get showered with attention, internships, research opportunities, and mentoring.</p>
<p>^Who pays for med school or vet school? Everyone I knew who went to these paid for them with loans. Even those prices are doable to pay back on an md salary if you’re willing to not live an “md” lifestyle (as we realized in my family.)</p>
<p>But they are SO MUCH higher than they used to be. At any rate, “average” h.s. students can’t afford them because on average, there is no help, and they are likely in some debt already from undergrad.</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2011/04/real-life-medical-school-debt.html[/url]”>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2011/04/real-life-medical-school-debt.html</a></p>
<p>The average annual salary for a vet is $90k, and that’s after a bunch of years of experience.</p>
<p><a href=“High Debt and Falling Demand Trap New Veterinarians - The New York Times”>High Debt and Falling Demand Trap New Veterinarians - The New York Times;
<p>Mini…what does average income have to do with average achievement or ability? There are plenty of average income families with brilliant kids. And there are plenty of way above average kids who are not so brilliant.</p>
<p>The question was “Do average hs students become doctors and vets?”</p>
<p>And my answer is that, in the main, no, and it has nothing (or very little) to do with either achievement or ability.</p>
<p>But, hey, that was really easy actually, 'cause most high school students of whatever ilk don’t become doctors or vets.</p>
<p>I’ll give you vets–their salaries seem to have plummeted. But MD’s can afford the prices you list in loans–that’s an average mortgage. Our loans ended up being about 100K 30 years ago, especially because of the interest rates which were enormous compared to those now. But even though my H worked as an urban pediatrician on a van going to homeless shelters and projects, we still paid them off. Ahead of schedule, actually. It’s a matter of priorities.</p>
<p>But honestly, as Thumper says, what does income have to do with being an average HS student? Every school has students who excel–they’re much more likely to become MDs than the “average” one.</p>
<p>I agree that the college GPA will be more important than the HS GPA. I have a nephew who is now a family practice doctor and a niece who is an BSN, now doing more undergrad coursework to be able to enter medical school. They were both good students in HS but had to really prove themselves in undergrad.</p>
<p>If finances and loans are a concern to those wanting to enter many medical professions, then that student should check out the loan repayment program National Health Service Corp run by the US Dept. of Health and Human Services. [NHSC</a> Loan Repayment Application Cycle Now Open - NHSC](<a href=“http://nhsc.hrsa.gov/loanrepayment/]NHSC”>Loan Repayment | NHSC)</p>
<p>And I’ll add something very unPC here–I want my doctor to be smart, scary smart. I want my doctor to be smarter than me. I want her or him to be House, frankly. I want to know that there’s serious thinking going on, not just trying hard.</p>
<p>Average HS students come from families with average incomes. Yes, there are statistical variations, but you can actually plot SAT scores by local real estate values, and you won’t be far off. Students with average incomes do excel (hey, I’ve got two of them! ;)), and they are less likely to become MDs than students who excel a little less, and have more income. </p>
<p>Average hs students don’t, in the main, become docs and vets. Average hs students who excel in college are somewhat more likely to do so. (Well, duh!) </p>
<p>Is an average mortgage $370k these days? Who knew?</p>
<p>You said 210 before.</p>
<p>Personally, I want my Dr to be able to listen.
We have plenty of physicians who are " scary smart" or at least think they are.
[Talking</a> Cure for Health Care: Improve Doctors’ People Skills - WSJ.com](<a href=“Talking Cure for Health Care: Improve Doctors' People Skills - WSJ”>Talking Cure for Health Care: Improve Doctors' People Skills - WSJ)
[When</a> doctors don?t listen and how to get them to - Boston.com](<a href=“http://www.boston.com/dailydose/2013/01/25/when-doctors-don-listen-and-how-get-them/cEUrvSLWfPUArSTK0xmpgK/story.html]When”>http://www.boston.com/dailydose/2013/01/25/when-doctors-don-listen-and-how-get-them/cEUrvSLWfPUArSTK0xmpgK/story.html)
<a href=“If All Doctors Had More Time to Listen - The New York Times”>If All Doctors Had More Time to Listen - The New York Times;
<p>While vets don’t generally speak the same language as their patients, care for the animal improves when they listen to their owners.
My cats lived into their 20’s & my labrador, till she was 16, because we had a vet who listened.
Albeit, we had to change practices halfway through their lives because of vets who didn’t hear well.</p>
<p>That’s the price! What I posted was the story of indebtedness post-residency. $370k. and rising.</p>
<p>But $250k (average cost), or $370k - doesn’t matter a heck of a lot to your average hs student.</p>
<p>I want a doctor who is smart, and also one who is not in debt and needing to do more procedures in order to pay the bills.</p>