<p>How familiar do you think college coaches are with the realities of high school teams? I ask because our coach frequently sacrifices our D for the sake of the team. She’s fine with that and I think it’s OK too, but sometimes it can be worrisome when we think about building a resume for college recruitment. For example, D is a distance runner. Her favorite and best event is the 1600 meters, though she’s very good at the 800 m. and the 3200 m. In our conference, she’s the fastest at all 3 of those distances and would win the confererence title in any of them if allowed to compete in those events at the championships. However, it seems that the coach may just run her in a sprint race (4x400) for counties. She isn’t trained as a sprinter and so naturally isn’t as strong in that event. This is just one example of the kind of thing that happens to her frequently. I know college coaches look at times, but they seem to want the kids to have honors and titles too, judging by how they publish their athletes’ bios online with high school accomplishments. I’m sure the same thing happens in other sports. The kid is really a forward, but the high school soccer team’s defense is weak so he’s mostly playing sweeper or fullback. The difference there, though, is that the soccer player has a club team where he can show his stuff.</p>
<p>I don’t know about track, but in soccer, high school doesn’t count for much. Coaches are more concerned with performance with your club team. Most DI schools don’t even mention the athlete’s high school team.</p>
<p>You must have her best times in all of those events. Put together an athletic resume and be sure to put down her best times in all events. At least for vb, stats are important as I’m sure they are in distance running. Keep track of all of her finishes, team finishes, etc. This should all be on her resume. But HER times are the most important. Regardless of whether or not she runs a specific event each time, her best time in that event is what a coach is looking for.</p>
<p>Yes, she has an athletic resume and has filled in her best times on any recruiting questionnaires for the colleges she’s interested in. My concern is more that the team often needs her to run different events from what are her strongest races, or she has to run more events in each big meet than what is conducive to running top times. (By your third race of the day you’re not as sharp.) So in these ways she misses out on the opportunity to show herself in the best light. Is there a way to say this without sounding like she’s complaining, making excuses or isn’t a team player?</p>
<p>She can just state that she frequently runs more than one event in a meet. Although many runners can double or triple and run very well in all events, but its not that common. </p>
<p>Also coaches understand that the post-season honors can be superficial. A runner in the large schools division in New York State has to run much faster than a runner in the small schools division in NY and much faster than a runner in any other state. Placing 30th in the Class AA state meet for cross country is nearly equivalent to winning the Class B, C and D races and the state meet in almost every other state in the country.</p>
<p>Track and CC coaches are looking at times. If the high school team is not a venue to get times in desired events, look for outside meets, like the master’s meets in the summer or open events in the spring, and enter unaffiliated. Check directathletics.com for more info on meets, or a good running club in the area for ideas. Use berecruited.com to post times and get some interest. Your daughter should be making the contacts with the coaches so they can get to know her and her personality, as well as her times. Good luck.</p>
<p>Counties and conference meets are really not important races that college coaches would be evaluating. Sectionals could be more important in terms of evaluating her against other competition and State Qualifiers are even more important as it is a stepping stone to the state meet where you can run against some really good competition and sometimes be pushed to a personal best. As someone said above showing the best time in each event as a Junior is important on a resume. Also it can be helpful to show a time progression in each event from Frosh, Soph, Junior year as some girls peak early before their bodies mature. If a girl can show continuous improvement as she gets older that is a plus.</p>
<p>Remember sometimes coaches have you do some short distances as part of the training plan to work on speed so she will have a better kick at the end of the 1600 for example. If coach won’t put her in her best event for states, that would be a shame. Don’t worry too much about multiple events. Many other runners have to do that too and you could explain that to coaches. As stated above the goal should be one great 800 time, one great 1600 time and one great 3200 time to put on sports resume which she should send to schools she is interested in. Don’t wait for coaches to contact you. The good news for you is that there are many more opportunities for female track and field athletes than for male athletes, so that should work in her favor. Also before heading down this road, make sure she is really interested in running at the college level and making that type of committment.</p>
<p>College coaches are intimately familiar with all variations of how high school sports teams are run and how good (and bad) high school coaches can be. If an athlete has the potential to win at the college level, there will be coaches who will recruit the athlete. Yes, some coaches are not going to recruit an athlete who does not have top awards or is not in a winning program, but they are in the minority. Just encourage your daughter to do her best and try to enjoy the ride.</p>
<p>Thanks to all for your responses. While I already knew in my heart what you’re saying is true, it’s hard not to worry every time those recruitment forms come which ask for athletic awards. Also, as you may know, it’s much easier to win titles if you’re in a small school conference or small state. Our state has several of the country’s best distance and middle distance runners.</p>
<p>Yes, I know that coaches have kids race shorter and longer than their main event to improve their speed or endurance. In the case at hand, though, the coach has made it his goal to break as many school records as possible with current team members, and he needs D in the 4x400 to have a shot. Also, in addition to ego-motivated decisions, there are political factors at play which at times interfere with what is best for the team or for particular athletes (family member of coach and D of town big whig are on team, etc.)</p>
<p>my county alone has five or six of the best milers in the entire country and all of those girls are also very strong runners in other distance events. I still had my pick of several decent DI programs and one of the best DIII programs when I was making my college choice. if your daughter is as good as you make her seem to be she will be fine in the recruiting process.</p>
<p>One college coach asked D about her running goals, so she answered him using times, ie. “I want to drop so many seconds to run the 1600 in this time this season,” etc. The coach interrupted her and said, “But what are your PLACE goals? Where do you want to FINISH in the state meets? I want to know how competitive you are!” Well, gee, she’d love to finish 1st or 2nd of course, but realistically that just wasn’t going to happen with the talent there is in the state. He seemed to have judged her as not competitive enough by how she answered.</p>
<p>Being competitive and having the right mind set is more important to long-term success in running than talent is.</p>
<p>Being competetive is good but at times the athlete also needs to be realistic. My D competed in her sport against girls who had their Olympic Trials Qualifying times at 14 years old. Was she planning to do well at States, yes. Was there any chance of her coming in 1st or 2nd, hardly. Hopefully a coach would see this and realize that place does not always count for everything. And she did end up getting a D1 scholarship.</p>
<p>Thanks for the post, LGadow. </p>
<p>D didn’t care for that particular coach much; he was pretty harsh in general. But we did worry that other coaches would over-focus on finishes rather than times. If so, and you’re a track runner from CA, NY, TX, FL, NJ, VA etc., that could be a real problem.</p>
<p>
While obviously it will always be harder to win in the larger classes, the 30th best runner in NY wouldn’t be able to win almost any other state’s state meet (except the smaller divisions) and wouldn’t be guaranteed the win in other divisions.
From tullyrunner.com, based off their speed ratings:
Girls - 30th place AA = 18th place B = 5th place C = 5th place D = 51st place FLNE/69th place FLS/50th place FLMW
Boys - 30th place AA = 11th place B = 3rd place C = 2nd place D = 51st place FLNE/51st place FLS/60th place FLMW
And that’s with the diluted fields caused by NXN, and the fact that the top athletes in each state don’t necessarily run footlocker</p>
<p>
If the coach has any idea what they’re doing then the athlete will be fully peaked (and thus in their best shape physically) for their state meet (or whenever their season ends). You shouldn’t enter any open meets during the season without first consulting the coach, and if you wait too long after the season ends she won’t be in peak condition. If she’s good enough, then definitely enter Nike Outdoor Nationals (you can find the standards by googling); if not, then an open meet (if available) within a week or two after her HS season ends would be a good bet (if she can maintain her peak).</p>
<p>Also, you should check out the forums at Dyestat.com, as you’ll be able to get much better advice with regards to getting recruited/going to college for running.</p>
<p>The college coach thing is an all depends issue. Many have a clue, others do not. Keep in mind they need to have decent records to keep their jobs. One issue is of course the sport. I am guessing with something like soccer or track there are large numbers potential candidates so coaches can be more picky or even arbitrary in their choices.</p>
<p>D was a recruited athlete a year ago. One of the issues is the coach you will play for. You need to see if there is a match between your daughter and the coach. We dumped top schools for exactly that reason more than halfway through the process.</p>
<p>There was, or still may be, a statement on the Brown website talking about the complexity of the college and sports decision. Bottom line is the college decision is difficult, but when you overlay the sports decision it is even more complex. So research the coach carefully.</p>
<p>Agree with hikids. And GFG, I would be cautious about making statements about “bad coaching decisions” to a college coach, especially when the decision is something like putting your daughter in a race that puts the team in a position to score needed points, qualify the relay team for a meet at the next level, etc. College coaches will also be making decisions you may not like, for the benefit of the team, and not necessarily popular with each athlete. The coach will decide which distances your daughter runs in college. Part of being “coachable” is accepting that the coach may have a different idea about what her best distance is, or where he sees her on the team. </p>
<p>It’s so hard to read coaches and know if they are saying what you want to hear, or if they are giving you the straight dope on how they plan to develop and use your daughter through college. However, you must also understand that the coach will be looking for a kid who is open to a different way of doing things, and of accepting the coach as final word on everything- practice, rest, competition, medical needs, etc. Trust your gut to find someone you and your daughter are truly comfortable with. And, yes, my daughter couldn’t be happier with her choice- PM me if you want to talk.</p>
<p>I don’t think I used the phrase “bad coaching decisions” in this thread (did I?), but of course we would never say anything like that to a college coach. And as I said, D is pefectly happy to help the team, but it is a fact that doing so often negatively impacts her personal goals and performances and that concerns me from a recruiting perspective. Unfortunately, in our state the very same meets are used for team titles and individual advancement to the state championships. So, if your team doesn’t have a shot at winning, the coach can place you only in your best event(s) and only in one or two races. But if your team has a chance to win the title, and you’re a good runner, then you may have to race more events than your competition within the same meet, which will affect times and place finishes and could cost you the chance to advance. Often in these big meets D has to run in a race after just running another one earlier, whereas the other top competition is fresh and on their first race of the day. If the college coach is on the lookout for someone for a particular event, let’s say, and just looks at the results of that one race, how would he know that? </p>
<p>Anyway, those aren’t the kind of decisions which I would usually refer to as “bad” because they benefit the team as a whole. But high school coaches have other pressures beside team objectives, such as the need to place certain kids in events because of who their parents are. Those can indeed be “bad” and they do affect other kids and the team negatively. One of D’s friends was just bumped out of an event so the coach’s relative could run it 1 minute and 40 seconds slower. Sigh.</p>
<p>If there’s a need to place a kid in an event because of who their parents are then the coach is “doing it wrong,” so to speak. Same goes for the college coach who looks at results and fails to notice that an athlete ran multiple events (unless one or more of those events was a relay and the relay members aren’t listed individually). Your daughter should inform the college coach of all the events that she does run, though, including her times in those events.</p>
<p>Sorry if I offended, GFG. The use of quotes wasn’t intended to imply I was quoting you, but was my interpretation of your description of some of the coach’s decisions about running kids for political (parent pressure) reasons, rather than considering what might be best for the team, or individuals trying to advance.</p>
<p>In my daughter’s recruiting experience, all college coaches seemed to understand that coaches sometimes ask HS runners to compete in as many as 4-5 events during some meets. College coaches will also ask this of runners from time to time. I think as long as you clearly present her PRs, and also the big contribution she has made by running multiple events, the college coaches will get the picture. Of course it’s great if she can post a really fast time at NON or JOs where she can focus on a single race, but as others have said, timing a running peak for one of those events can be tricky, if she is also trying to run her fastest at the end of the HS season.</p>
<p>Best wishes.</p>