I am a high school junior starting to think about colleges. I’m a US citizen, but I’ve spent the entirety of my high school education abroad, so I’m not sure whether that hurts or helps my chances. I’m looking at a math major in college. These are my stats for reference:
1540 SAT (750 eng, 780 math)
800 SAT subject math-2
800 SAT subject physics
760 SAT subject chem
3.9 gpa uw
2 internships (1 at a living services startup, the other at a tutoring centre)
Math team, regional math olympiad qualifier
Cultural Secretary of my high school, organised science fair
Several MUN awards, speech/debate club
Chess club co-founder
School swim team
100 volunteer hours
My current list is as follows:
Stanford
Cornell
Rice
NYU
University of Michigan
Reed College
UW Madison
I’m reluctant to apply to more than 7-8 schools because I feel bad spending so much on application fees when I’ll already be spending almost half a grand for testing, filling out CSS, fafsa etc. At the same time UW Madison is my only ‘true’ safety so yeah. I’m also shooting for colleges in my country of residence so I’m a tad conflicted.
I hesitate to use the word safe with just the information given, but you should be fine at Reed and UW. Failing to get into 1 of them would be a big surprise.
Definitionally, you only need 1 safety, as long as:
you are absolutely sure that you will be accepted;
you are absolutely sure that your family can afford it;
you will be happy enough to attend it.
Re: acceptance:
As a US citizen, where you live doesn’t much matter for admissions to the private schools (Stanford, Cornell*, Rice, NYU, Reed). Public schools (UMi and UW-M) can have higher acceptance rates for in-state v OOS students (23% v 19% at UMi for example), but that is not an issue at UWi.
Re: affordability:
Stanford, Cornell*, Rice and Reed all promise to “meet full need” - as they define it.
NYU notably does not promise this- and is one of the most expensive / least generous of universities
UMi & UWi charge OOS tuition and don’t give much financial aid (UMi does have an OOS merit scholarship; dk about UWi).
So, have you run the numbers? can you afford all of these schools?
Thank you for the detailed answer! I kept NYU because I am somewhat familiar with nyc and their Courant Institute is very well regarded for math. However, in case of an underwhelming aid package I doubt it would be worth it. Could you recommend any colleges with similar acceptance rates to nyu?
Reed is by no means a sure thing. Stats only count ~25% weight in admission. I agree with needing to run the NPCs for each school to see if they are affordable.
OP, would you be happy with only one school option (your safety)? If you would be happy to attend UW with no other options then your list is fine (if UW is truly a safety - haven’t looked at the Common Data Set to see). If you think you would like choices then you should add another safety school.
Reiteration: No school is a safety unless it is a safety for admittance AND financially affordable.
Question: What amount can your family afford to pay for your college education each year? This number should include Tuition+R&B+fees+Travel.
Once you know that number, you then go looking for colleges that cost that much or less. Also, you can include universitites like AZ State U (U of Alabama, etc) that include Automatic-Merit money for higher stats. You can use the NPC on those sites and get a fairly accurate guesstimate of your cost.
UW-Madison costs about $50K/yr for OOS students. If your family cannot afford that price, UW-M is not a safety school for you.
Agreed, the financial part is critically important. A couple of irons to put in the fire:
With your family, go to thee college websites and complete their Net Price Calculators and keep a spreadsheet to compare costs later. This will provide you the data to then ask “Is college x worth $40K more than college y?”.
Start having convo with your family about how you and they value a 4-year degree. Do you and they see it worth paying top-dollar? Does your field/career demand advanced degrees? If given a budget, might you want to spend some of the month on travel, a house, car, grad degree, etc instead? Start with the broad questions and over time work towards the factual dollar amounts.
School size, feel, location, etc. is super important and may help you narrow things further. Cornell and NYU couldn’t be in more different areas. I know it’s nearly impossible to visit schools, but keep working towards what type of school is ideal. You might as well have your reach, target, and safety schools be a similar type so that you’d be ‘happy’ attending any of them.
Getting the list down to 8 or schools is what our senior has done and has served him well because he’s put thought in to each as you are doing. Those who applied to 22 schools may have many more options but are they useful options? Those apps can be expensive and all of it can be a lot to manage. Every school may have their own essays, opportunities to interview, require more documents for financial aid, etc. It’s a lot of items to juggle come senior year!
I only applied to 1 safety school and got decline but was excepted at a prestigious university its hard to say how many is enough but make sure you not only have good stats makes sure you are showing demonstrated interest in your top schools.
I wouldn’t call WI a safety for OOS, and considering price, etc. And anyone can predict whatever, but it’s opinion or guess until the admit arrives. It’s in adcoms hands, not ours.
Anecdotes are after-the-fact.
So I personally wouldn’t take an honest thread question like this one, where the list is mostly reachy, and tell a kid he/she has enough balance. It can mislead. OP would benefit from adding some truer safeties.
NYU has an acceptance rate in the mid-teens, and in the single digits if you are applying for CAS (as I assume you are). Do you not mean to ask about colleges with somewhat better admit rates? FYI BU is often seen by people as “similar” to NYU, with slightly better admit rates and usually somewhat better aid packages. I don’t know anything about their math department. For NYC itself, I think Fordham would be a good bet for you for admission, aid is usually decent for high stats students, again I don’t know anything about their math department.
Might I remind members of the forum rules: “Our forum is expected to be a friendly and welcoming place, and one in which members can post without their motives, intelligence, or other personal characteristics being questioned by others." https://www.collegeconfidential.com/policies/rules
I will further say that my statement above applies to all threads, not just this one. Let’s support each other instead of throwing shade. This time of year is stressful enough as it is.
My friends daughter was instate at UWi. She had a 4.0 UW, multiple AP courses, great EC’s, and had even worked with an engineering team who got a patent on a new invention. She got deferred initially from UWi. I no longer really consider it a safety for anyone after her story. Admissions are truly so confusing sometimes.
Wisconsin is a safe school for this student. If you really feel differently, would you please share the information you have that would support something different. I think it is important we do not discourage students using a “never know for sure” philosophy. That would mean, that even for top applicants, there is no school where they will most definitely be admitted. It has been time-tested that the strongest applicants need not apply to community colleges or similar to be 100% safe.
The OP’s concern regarding how best to allocate the application budget ($500-$1000?) infers there isn’t an unlimited college fund balance on hand. Most students have a budget (Current college savings/4 + what parents will contribute annually + the $5,500 student loan + annual student earnings for college).
A safety needs to be affordable. A school that stats assure admission but a substantial competitive merit aid scholarship is required to bring within budget is a reach.
Applying to a need based aid only school that you know (by running the net price calculator) is out of reach financially is a waste of not just application fees, but the time and energy that could be put to use finding schools that are within budget if admitted - or pursuing large competitive merit scholarships at schools that offer them.
I agree with this my higher stats kids only applied to schools that would give merit, so no reaches, a lot of safeties. It’s not as exciting when the acceptances come, but also less stressful.
Given post #14 by @2plustrio , it may not be safe enough to be considered a 100% assured admission safety. Perhaps “likely” would be a better descriptor than “safety” for admission purposes.
Also, the OP needs to clarify the financial aspect (i.e. that it is definitely comfortably affordable to the OP and parents). Without known affordability, it cannot be a safety.
I’m also in the camp of not calling either UW (for an OOS applicant) or Reed a “safety” so IMO, you have no safeties on your list at all. Probable admission is just not the same as a safety. Personally I would add one more true safety. 70%+ acceptance rate, where you will see merit to be affordable for your budget.
I joined this board three years ago when my daughter was a senior and her close friend was shut out of all of his schools except the safety the GC forced him to apply to at the last minute. He had excellent stats, was a legacy students at his ED1 and ED2 schools, great ECs, etc… Was rejected or wait listed everywhere he applied, including the instate flagship which should have been a slam dunk. I started posting on this site to make sure that didn’t happen to anyone else.
IMO, one more application to a true, absolutely will be accepted, safety, is worth the application fee and the time.