<p>My DH occasionally uses “sir” and even to folks younger than he. His background is military, so it’s natural to him. In those situations it makes me cringe, as it sounds a bit subservient when he is just meaning for it to be respectful. That said, I have lived inteh north and the south, and it doesnt carry a negative connotation to me.</p>
<p>As i said upthread, in the north it is a term for strangers, so yes, you would say “sir” to a waiter when you were trying to get his attention. “Sir, could we get some more coffee over here?”</p>
<p>My sister went to Cotillion in St Louis, fwiw. But there are manners classes for young people everywhere – just with the manners appropriate to that region.</p>
<p>I do use “sir” or “ma’am” to get the attention of a waitperson or clerk, but it sounds forced and rather desperate. A funny thing, occasionally, someone in a shop will refer to me as “young lady,” as in “let’s help this young lady now” or “get that young lady her coffee.” It really takes me aback because I’m not a young lady - middle aged, perhaps decent looking for my age, but no one would consider me to be a “young lady.” I think it’s done purposefully as a complement - “let’s call all the middle aged or older gals ‘young ladies’ - they love it,” but I find it really awkward and almost facetious.</p>
<p>When I first came to US, I went to grad school in Seattle. It was baffling when professors were introducing themselves as Tom, Roger, Bob and expected to be called by their first names. Students were bringing their lunches and eating in the classroom, some had their legs up on the table which was even more mindboggling.</p>
<p>6 months later, I transferred all the way to South Carolina. Professors introduced themselves as Professor Watkins, Professor Field and so on, we had tablet chairs so no one put their legs on the table, and not even water was allowed inside the classes. </p>
<p>About a semester in, one of my classmates seriously asked one of the more easygoing profs this question - do we always have to call you Professor Thompson, and the professor thought for a minute and said no, I have no problem if you call me Dr. Thompson. </p>
<p>To top it off, this was a graduate student only department and we had some students from military getting their Ph.D. Couple of them were in their forties and they had some advanced ranks like Major and Captain.</p>
<p>I have always used ma’am and sir for adults significantly older than I am (10 years or more) or who have a position of power above me, or whom I don’t know. I only used them for my family when they asked me to do something or I was getting a talking-to.</p>
<p>I have been called ma’am in the same time that I was mistaken for being 8 years younger than I actually am, so I don’t necessarily associate that term with being “an old lady”.</p>
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This statement confirms for me that the Southern “sir, ma’am” that supposedly demonstrates respect for one’s elders is nothing more than an automatic, rote response that becomes entirely meaningless. So why waste your breath? I determine whether I’m being shown respect by seeing how people treat me, not by what phrase they insert into every mundane response.</p>
<p>I use the terms some at work with our patients and clients. Other times it’s on a first-name basis.</p>
<p>I do feel weird when my athletes refer to me as “sir” but we have a large group of military kids at our school. I’m only 22 so only a few years older than them and I prefer they just call me by my first name.</p>
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<p>it’s a cultural thing. it does not become meaningless.</p>
<p>if it ain’t broke don’t fix it</p>
<p>The thought of a little boy saying, “We’re outta toilet paper, ma’am” sounds very Tom Sawyer-like and quite endearing, really. I wouldn’t mind hearing it for a minute, sir.</p>
<p>I guess it just depends on what you’re used to hearing. I live in the south. I’m used to hearing and saying “ma’am”, “sir”, “y’all” and “momma”. I grew up with those things and they are very much a part of me. A dear friend with whom I work is from the northeast (Boston). When I first met her, she rubbed me the wrong way. She said exactly what was on her mind whether or not it offended anyone, her demeanor was somewhat cool, and she was just very matter-of-fact. Numerous complaints were made about her to our principal, and many of our co-workers avoided her. Because I work closely with her, I soon learned she is a very nice and funny person and I feel fortunate to have her as a friend. She once told me that the difference between us is the delivery … she’s blunt and to the point and I sugar-coat things. She and I have both learned a few things from one another.</p>
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<p>By that logic, why say please or thank you, either?</p>
<p>^^ Thank-you Emaheevul. I was thinking the same thing.</p>
<p>Gourmetmom ,that’s not how it would go. The mother is asking a question " Are we out of toilet paper?" and the kid answers “Yes, ma’am”. The kid does not address his mother directly as “Ma’am” in the way you would address a stranger whose name you don’t know.
They would never say “Ma’am we’re out of toilet paper”. They’d say “Mom(or Momma, Mommy)…we’re out of toilet paper.”
Ma’am or Sir is almost always preceded by “yes” or “no” in response to a question from an older adult.</p>
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This is no different than a geographical variant of “yes, please” or “yes, thank you”. Let the tradition continue…</p>
<p>What is inherently more respectful about “yes, ma’am” compared to “yes, mom” in the toilet paper scenario? (For that matter, I’m not so sure what’s so problematic about just plain “yes.” As they say, asked and answered.)</p>
<p>No one is saying not to let the tradition continue! I don’t think anyone ever suggested that it be outlawed or anything.</p>
<p>“I guess it just depends on what you’re used to hearing. I live in the south. I’m used to hearing and saying “ma’am”, “sir”, “y’all” and “momma”. I grew up with those things and they are very much a part of me. A dear friend with whom I work is from the northeast (Boston). When I first met her, she rubbed me the wrong way. She said exactly what was on her mind whether or not it offended anyone, her demeanor was somewhat cool, and she was just very matter-of-fact. Numerous complaints were made about her to our principal, and many of our co-workers avoided her. Because I work closely with her, I soon learned she is a very nice and funny person and I feel fortunate to have her as a friend. She once told me that the difference between us is the delivery … she’s blunt and to the point and I sugar-coat things. She and I have both learned a few things from one another.” quote from post #70</p>
<p>Soooooo true! I am from the north (born and bred… NY, CT, MA, ME, NH)… . I find that the major difference is in the approach. </p>
<p>I now teach in the south, and had to get used to my students calling me ma’am. In the north it meant to me “you are old” … I now realize that for many in the south it is a manner of showing respect. I have gotten used to it, I find it charming, and it no longer makes me cringe :). However, most of my family and friends still live north of the Mason-Dixon Line, and I am up there for at least 1/4 of the year… when up there and I call people by “sir” or “ma’am,” I see them cringe a little… Where I teach we coach our students NOT to use “sir” and “ma’am” in job interview situations… I teach in the theatre arts area, and most of our students are moving to DC, NYC, Chicago, LA, Boston, or Philly… in this field “sir” and “ma’am” are not standard, and would actually be awkward and inappropriate within the industry standard. This is a first name business, and calling someone “sir” or “ma’am” would be like calling them old, and would distance yourself. </p>
<p>I believe that in professional situations in the arts… and possibly in many other fields… unless your superiors have asked to be called “ma’am” or “sir,” the standard would be to call by first name… or, by prefix and last name (ex. Ms. Smith).</p>
<p>I believe that in college we are training students for their chosen professions as equal adults. “Sir” and “ma’am” are terms that make them seem youthful and marginalized, not to be respected as equals in the field. I think calling superior managers by “Mr.” and “Ms.” until you are given permission to call them by their first names is probably appropriate, but I think our first names are our names. I teach in a college program where we are all on a first name basis. I do not think my students respect me any less because they call me by my first name. I don’t think being called “ma’am” or “Ms. KatMT” is more respectful than being called “Kat.”</p>
<p>I was referring to Twain, who used “ma’am” in long address. Tom says to Aunt Sally, “I didn’t mean nothing, ma’am. I thought you’d like it. They told me you would.”</p>
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<p>Yet another difference. In my town, that would come across as abrupt. In this case you would more than likey hear “Darlin’ (or Sweetie or Sweetheart…which would probably get you smacked in Boston) when you get a second could you grap me another cup of coffee?”</p>
<p>The pace is slow and steady. People tend to be “sweet as sugar” and it is just the way it is. I personally love it, and because of that, I don’t imagine I will ever live outside of Texas. (but I do love to travel 
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<p>Pizzagirl, Thanks for the explanation of why Northerners feel that saying “ma’am” or “sir” indicates distance, not respect. I had heard the sarcasm angle, but not the distance idea.</p>
<p>Please understand that saying “ma’am” or “sir” in the South does not indicate either forced subservience or racial inequality but respect. </p>
<p>Regardless of your connecting “ma’am” or “sir” with slaves and their mistresses or masters, the practice of using terms considered polite in the South now has absolutely nothing to do with racial inequality. In families in which the parents teach their children to say “ma’am” or “sir” to adults, the children (of whatever race) are expected to do so to adults (of whatever race). As a result, white children, for example, use such terms as signs of respect to their black teachers. To conjure up a racial connotation is to project one’s own views of the South onto those who are trying to teach their children what is polite in their culture. That is not politically incorrect; it just reveals a lack of understanding of a culture that is different from your own.</p>
<p>I hope that my explanation will help you understand the Southern view of this custom.</p>