@“Cariño” I agree that kids in the school system should probably conform to classroom expectations bc that is how learning is evaluated. But, outside of a traditional classroom, learning objectives do not need to be grade focused to “build good habits and set expectations and with commitment responsibilities” or to even develop strong study skills. Long-term understanding and ownership over the process can be nurtured outside of traditional methodologies. And that taking ownership over learning just for the sake of learning can be a great gift to take through life. (And not lead to any difficulties in transitioning into a classroom setting. )
(Fwiw, I hate not being able to go back and edit posts.I do know how to spell purview.)
“I have never seen a student that was a B student in elementary that became a top student later on.”
Kids mature at different ages, some B and C students hit their stride in high school or college so for anyone not to have seen late bloomers would mean the school district confines the kids to a track determined in elementary school, which is not good.
“Elementary school homework is a pointless waste of time with no educational value”
Homework is with a doubt overrated and many countries that do better than the US have less of it, however some homework that reinforces concepts or reviewing study guides e.g. for tests seem reasonable. No educational value seems a little extreme, but maybe a little value. I agree though that the US focuses too much on homework, not surprisingly in the bay area, if a kid doesn’t get assigned h/w, the parents get upset, so here homework is for the parents, not really for the students or teachers.
What we say and do in our daily lives can help them to develop positive attitudes toward school and learning and to build confidence in themselves as learners. Showing our children that we both value education and use it in our daily lives provides them with powerful models and contributes greatly to their success in school.
My oldest sped through homework in order to homeschool himself in computer programming. In middle school he did most of it at school by multi-tasking. Doesn’t work for everyone though! I did consider full-time homeschooling many times though, but my kid actually liked being with his friends in school and there were things like band, that I would have had a harder time finding in the community. I spent a fair amount of time on various homeschooling forums and knew several people who were homeschooling locally.
My kids were always doing projects that involved batteries and wires. They thought they were fun. They weren’t going to learn it at school. It seemed stupid not to teach it to them. My older son lived for those kits which allow you to do 50 electrical experiments
If it’s every now and then and your child is receptive to help, asking her to fix one or two answers is fine, but often what happens is that parents get in a power struggle over making sure the entire assignment is correct.
My husband and I have three very successful students. 2 at top colleges, one a straight A student in all advanced classes as a junior in HS.
Our rule has always been that they have to DO their homework. We didn’t even care if it was right, didn’t check it (unless they asked for help and then of course we would, if we could), but just basically said, do it and hand it in. Even if you are having a bad night and don’t do a great job on it, hand something in and meet your deadlines.
Looking back on this, I think it was very effective. A lot of homework, even at the AP level in our high school, isn’t that difficult, or isn’t even always graded. Getting the kids in the habit of not blowing anything off is half the battle. By staying on top of things, tests were never that bad. I feel like these same basic and obvious habits have helped my daughters in college, as well.
My middle child was Valedictorian. I have joked that she got that distinction just because she handed everything in.
As for the unorganized kids that forget homework, don’t understand what’s expected of them, etc., I think they need a parent’s guidance. I personally think it is time well spend helping your children learn organizational skills that they can use their whole lives. And bad habits need to be nipped in the bud as soon as they surface. I have seen too many parents be too hands off with homework in elementary school when there was time to shape work habits, in my opinion, and the kids never got their act together and never blossomed into good students, when maybe they could have if they were just able to stay organized. I think being too hands off can backfire on a struggling student, especially when the main issue is organization.
My son has ADHD and is one of those kids that needed help with his organization. And now he is able to do it himself…still procrastinates more than he should, but when that happens he owns it and blames himself and makes up for it the next time. He was up until 2 AM last night (rarely happens) finishing an essay. But he did it.
Never helped, never will. IF kids gets really stuck on a question ( maybe once a month), then they ask for clarification. My role at that point, is to redirect and send them in the right direction regarding resources ( like the teacher), online info etc.
That being said, I do check in. A lot. What’s coming up? How did you do? Did you ask to meet with the teacher? Maybe you need to carve out more time for that subject, etc.
My kiddos have always been A students but one is organized and a self starter, the other is a procrastinator.
Encouraging your kids to seek help from teachers/peers is great guidance, and we do it too. My kids often go in earlyif they are lost, and most teachers are happy to help before, at lunch, and after school. This is all part of the parental guidance, that I think kids need and deserve. I consider this being “hands on”.
Sometimes the projects assigned were beyond the age of the child. For example, in 4th grade, my kids’ elementary school had a simple machines project. They were supposed to create a machine to solve a basic household task. The direction sheet “strongly suggested” that parents get involved. I resented projects like this.
I think there is a balance to be found between helping too much and being negligent. I also think that point isn’t the same for each family.
For mine, I helped with spelling words and math facts in elementary, aside from supplementing my kids’ learning (ie I taught them to read before kindergarten, taught them how to multiply in kindergarten since they were curious).
In middle school, I helped them the most with editing papers and with just talking things out. I also “quizzed” them before tests using study sheets they would make. They appreciated (mostly) my editing. My younger daughter actually brought a friend’s writing home for me to edit once, since the teacher was too busy to help everyone and the friend’s parents apparently had no interest in helping. By late middle school, my kids still had me check over their writing, but had also noticed when doing “peer editing” in the classroom, that other kids really appreciated their help. My kids insist that they learned how to edit from watching me do it with them.
In high school, I’m mostly the sounding board and quizzer. A tiny bit of editing, but almost solely for typos. The majority of being the sounding board is when they are stuck, they will explain the problem to me and the steps they have taken.... almost always when they do that, they figure out where they went wrong. Very occasionally, I will ask them a question that inadvertently triggers an aha moment (ie I’m asking them what something means because I truly don’t know, and while explaining it, they will realize whatever they had missed). Every once in a great while, I actually really just know something and can tell them, while doing a victory dance.
I was the parent who always swore I wouldn’t do my kid’s homework. By second grade, I was barely even asking about it; she did it before I got home from work (either at the after school program, or eventually at home when she started walking home from school).
Fast forward to high school. She’s a junior, and for the first time, I am much more involved in her work than I ever thought I would be. I don’t check everything, nor do I do assignments for her. But I can’t imaging NOT helping with homework when she doesn’t understand pre-calc or physics. They don’t get graded assignments back, so it’s not like I could wait and explain it after. Plus, in many cases these are due on the day of a test or quiz; if I won’t explain how to do it, she then doesn’t know how to solve the problems on the test. She also asks my husband to help her study English and History quite a bit, which he does. Every kid is different; we are helping mine to the extent she needs.
For projects, I usually don’t help. Her end product turns out far less professional than I would be comfortable with, but it is her work. But for normal homework, if a kid doesn’t understand, I think it is completely reasonably to help them. The teacher should be doing it, but she has one who makes things more rather than less confusing when asked for help, and others who don’t make the time to meet with students 1:1 who are struggling.
Schoolwork? We NEVER saw the schoolwork of our older child. He worked on it here and there, at random moments. We only learned of some of the papers he wrote when he cleaned out his backpack and left papers sitting on the table. He generally mixed his hobby time with his schoolwork time, so when he was using the computer we just let him go. For your younger child, we occasionally talked to her about her assignments. She was planning to be an artist and tried to use art as a supplement to the other projects she had to complete (e.g., book reports). So we saw the art. But otherwise we didn’t work WITH her on it.
In general, if the kids are self-sufficient and have time-management ability – and they complete their assignments on time – there isn’t a lot of monitoring for parents to do. They may learn about the need for more monitoring or assistance by attending teacher-parent conferences. They may learn about the need for more art supplies by speaking to their artist-child!
Some kids develop time management and executive function faster than others. As long as you’re marching toward adulthood and the skills are coming YMMV. My daughter was born a planner. My son has needed a secretary at times but is very successful with dual enroll classes now with us completely hands off.
I completely agree some develop the time management skills faster than others. I do feel like this is an area parents can help their children with if and when they need it.
We used to have to sit on my son but it finally clicked and he is overall very good at managing his time now, as a high school junior with a pretty rigorous schedule. He slips every now and then and has to stay up late or scramble last minute, but these moments are few and far between now which is reassuring knowing that he will be on his own at college in less than two years.
“I have never seen a student that was a B student in elementary that became a top student later on.”
Read Stephen Hawking’s last book, “Brief Answers to the Big Questions” and he describes how he went from a B student to the greatest mind since Einstein.
Hard work and determination can bloom at different times, IMHO.
(ps not trying to be argumentative, I know it is still rare and we are talking about Hawking, the rarest of minds. Also, the book is great!)
My roommate’s boyfriend almost flunked third grade because he couldn’t read. (Undiagnosed dyslexia.) He majored in economics, graduating summa cum laude from Harvard and went to med school. He never read a book for pleasure, but he was very, very smart.
My husband was an average student at best in high school and just got his act together in college and did great. Passed the CPA exam on the first shot and has made a very nice career for himself. I definitely think getting good grades creates opportunities for you, but there are lots of paths to success and people blossom at different times. Sometimes it’s just a conscious decision to make more effort.
There can be many reasons why a kid might not hoop jump for an elementary school teacher and be highly successful later in life. Many profoundly gifted students are not good candidates for traditional schooling. All grades mean in elementary school are that your kid is willing to jump through hoops.
Every kid is different, and at the middle school and high school level, if the parent is able to help a struggling child in the subject matter, it’s a blessing, as you can avoid having to hire a tutor. Sometimes, the teacher is not great, so not helping your children just sets them up for failure.