<p>So the fact that you weren’t included in any IQ study means it didn’t happen?</p>
<p>“In 1960, about 40 percent of female teachers scored in the top quintile of IQ and other aptitude tests, with only 8 percent in the bottom. Twenty years later, fewer than half as many were in the top quintile, with more than twice and many in the bottom…Between 1967 and 1980, US test scores fell by about 1.25 grade level equivalents.” --Levitt and Dubner from Superfreakonomics p.44</p>
<p>On the same page there’s a quote from the chancellor of NYC public schools, who claims the quality of teachers has been declining for decades.</p>
<p>In the past, there was one elementary school in our district which had a “site council.” It was considered the best school in the district and all the parents seemed very pleased with the school. Unlike the PTO, which is largely about fundraising, this council apparently gave parents input in school policy. When the principal who founded the council left, the organization was disbanded.</p>
<p>The GFC, I said that the behavior of students is more obedient in some countries, this coming 1st hand from their teachers, and you extrapolate from this that I mean other countries are producing uncreative robots? Did you read my post? Your response really had nothing to do with it. I also find the blame the union game interesting. I personally have no experience with a union. I am in one of the 11 states on the map linked to earlier who have no union. It is not impossible to get rid of bad teachers here - I’ve seen quite a few go. We don’t make extravagent salaries - as I posted earlier, a 1st year teacher in my state will earn somewhere in the low $30,000 range. And most of us are parents, with the same desires and concerns for our children as you and everyoone else posting here has. My children both went to public schools. One just completed her 1st year of law school. One will be going to a highly respected private LAC on a large merit scholarship, based on her excellent academic career at a public high school. You can get a quality education in public schools.</p>
<p>Some asked about getting parental input - in our state, each school is required to have a school improvement council. This council consists of teachers, administrators, parents, and at least at the high school level, students. They meet monthy and address concerns. Also, a survey is done each year by a sample of parents, students, and teachers, and this survey becomes part of the school report card (one of the “No Child Left Behind” requirements). I feel that at least at our school, there is good communication between all the stakeholders, and for the most part, we all work together.</p>
<p>GFG,
Let’s assume that your claim is accurate that the IQ of the female teaching population is dropping since 1960 (I personally don’t see the evidence of that in my workplace, but, whatever). Could it have anything to do with the fact that, in 1960, there were very few careers open and available to women? The woman who wanted to have a career in 1960 had few options so, it makes sense that the smarter, more driven woman of that era would go into the teaching profession. Women coming of age in this generation have infinite options to choose from. As tempting as it is to start a career that inspires little respect and offers low pay, I suspect that many of those high IQ candidates have gone in other directions (not all of them, though. I’m still here :))</p>
<p>Don’t you think it is suspect that the study is only of woman?</p>
<p>Sorry, but this is one area where I blame the teachers. My 3 kids attended 3 different private elementary/middle schools (we moved around a lot and their abilities varied), but they all attended the same public high school. Each one of them, when they started at the hs, commented that the biggest and most shocking difference they noticed was how disrespectful the students were to the teachers and how the teachers did nothing to stop it.</p>
<p>The robot comment was not meant in response to any particular poster on here, but rather referred to the most popular defense given of our educational system, particularly when compared with that of China: that we do a better job of promoting creativity and entrepreneurial thinking, and unlike other countries, we do not advocate rote learning. </p>
<p>EPTR–the claim isn’t mine so I don’t have to defend it. But yes, the authors would agree that greater career opportunities open to women caused the change. </p>
<p>dheldreth: I’d venture a guess you had quite a bit to do with the fact that your children got a good education in the public school system. First of all, as a teacher, you were probably both aware enough and capable enough to shepherd them through the system and counteract its pitfalls. Second, if you were teaching in the same district as the one where your children attended, then your kids probably got the better teachers. (That’s another way we know who the good teachers are–we watch what classes the teachers’ kids get placed in!)</p>
<p>GFG - I posted earlier that I did not EVER request teachers for my students - they got who they got, like everyone else. I am a second career teacher, so for my older child, I was not even a teacher earlier in her school career. I know it is hard to believe or accept, but they had a good public schools, and good teachers. You can try to find other reasons why they excelled, since it seems that there is no way you can credit it to good schools & teachers, but that is it. Of course we stressed academics in the home. That was my job as a parent. We also stressed personal responsibility on the part of our children. Ultimately, it is their job to study & learn.</p>
<p>That is not true in my school system. I have been teaching in the same school system for twelve years which amounts to my younger daughter’s entire school career. I was never afforded privileges in regard to placement of my daughter and I never sought any kind of special treatment. We suffered the same percentage of bad and mediocre teachers as everyone else and i complained when needed, even when it was a colleague in my system. I felt that it was my responsibility to complain, not only for the sake of my child but because I, as a teacher in the system, am a stakeholder in more than one way.</p>
<p>My understanding is that the overall behavior at most schools is a function of the administration. I am sure there are some teachers that can run a tight well behaved classroom but administrative support of unruly students is important.</p>
<p>Frazzled S and D tell me that at their public high school, there was a big deterioration of behavior once students moved down the tracks, with the honors and AP students far more respectful and higher-track classes far more orderly. That was enough to motivate them to study hard even in subjects (or with teachers) they did not particularly like, just to remain eligible for honors classes.</p>
<p>Most do. It is a very hard job and unless you have done it, it is hard to comprehend the level of difficulty than one can have with the intensity and variety of behavioral issues we are presented with. I was teaching a fourth grade class the other day and a mom was there helping me with something. She witnessed some rather disrespectful behavior. Nothing to bold but interrupting, talking out, getting out of the seat when unnecessary, etc. She also witnessed me holding those kids accountable for their actions and enforcing the class rules. </p>
<p>When the class left I apologized that she had to witness me being “harsh” with them. Her response was that she doesn’t know how I do it (meaning show up every day and fight the fight).</p>
<p>I have been teaching for over twenty years. Kids are different now than they were when i started. They want their demands met NOW, often to the exclusion of everyone else’s needs. Many think that by using the words “excuse me” they have license to interrupt instruction, a conversation between two adults or the helping of another student. It IS harder to teach than it used to be and you can blame the teachers if it makes you feel better, but I think the problem starts at home and it started in the eighties when people began believing that their child’s self esteem was dependent on an artificially inflated ego.</p>
<p>Bay, you plainly stated that you blamed the teacher. You said that student disrespect was the teacher’s fault because they did nothing about it. All I can say is wow. Does this tranlsate into the adult world - I can do what I want, steal, slap people, etc, and it is the fault of those who don’t stop me?! The lack of accepting personal responsibility for actions is a big problem across the board - like the blaming McDonalds because you’re obese, but I am appalled to hear a parent condone it for students. </p>
<p>Yes, some teachers have better classroom management than others. But if my child was taking advantage of a weaker teacher and being disrespectful, we would have a come-to-Jesus meeting at our house - I would not be blaming the teacher.</p>