Do Teachers work for the Parents?

KKmama · May 11, 2011, 12:18pm

Teachers are paid by all tax payers, not just the parents. Schools are supposed to provide the best educations they can for the good of society, not just to please parents (public schools, anyway; one could argue that at private schools everything should be catered to the parents paying tuition).

That doesn’t mean that teachers should do everything to please the parents. Take my job for example. I’m a pastor and my salary is paid completely by the members of my church. But part of the vows I took at ordination is to “admonish” when necessary. And, there are people in my congregation who want me to spend all of my preaching time condemning the behaviors of people who are outside of the church. That would make them happy, but it wouldn’t help them be better Christians; makes more sense for me to preach about temptations and challenges that the people actually inside the building must deal with. Might make them uncomfortable, and sometimes downright unhappy, but it can also be very helpful.

Evaluating teachers has to be done carefully. Basing salary on grade average for the class isn’t appropriate, because the teacher can’t control what happens outside of the classroom. S/he can be an excellent teacher but if Johnny is being beaten up at home, or doesn’t get sleep because of home situation, or is dealing with a lot of emotional issues, or not doing his homework, his grades will reflect that. As long as teachers have to “teach to the middle” or try to address 30 different kids with hugely varying IQ’s and learning styles, not everyone CAN get an A.

frazzled1 · May 11, 2011, 7:53pm

I’m not a teacher, though I’m proud to have raised one. I’m pro-teacher because my kids have had so many good ones, as did I, eons ago. Perhaps we were merely fortunate, but almost all of my kids’ public school teachers were very good, excellent, or superb.

To read this thread is to despair at teacher-parent resentments ever being resolved. All students deserve dedicated, hard-working, effective teachers, of course. It seems to me that some parents expect a private school experience for their children who are enrolled in public school. And undoubtedly there are some public school teachers who are incompetent and looking for an easy paycheck on the public payroll.

It’s such a hard job, though! How many of us who aren’t teachers could do it? Could you meet all the state mandates and regulations, maintain classroom order, impart the required curriculum, create lesson plans and learning materials, devise techniques to teach students across a wide range of abilities, grade homework and tests and papers, and then do it all again the next day? I couldn’t do those things, let alone inspire or mentor or guide 25 or 50 or 100 individual students.

Earlier this week I was a guest in my d’s 1st grade classroom. I spent 4 hours there and am still exhausted. She has to get 28 7-year-olds, all of whom qualify for the free lunch program, and only 3 of whom speak English as their native language, to focus on learning for 6.5 hours instead of what’s for lunch, whether there will be outdoor recess (which she supervises), or who just belched. There are 4 different levels for reading and math, meaning 8 different sets of homework assignments and 8 different small group lessons throughout the day. One of the kids has juvenile diabetes and passes out occasionally. Several of the boys are either just boys in spades or have some kind of undiagnosed hyperactivity disorder. Someone got funding for her school to provide breakfast to all students each day in the classroom, which means that she now must add supervising the distribution, consumption, and clean-up of bananas, cereal and milk for 28 1st-graders to her list of daily responsibilities.

She is my hero and deserves every last cent of that paycheck.

tango14 · May 11, 2011, 10:51pm

I’m going to make a vast overgeneralization here, but as a teacher for more than 20 years, a methods instructor in my discipline, and a participant in numerous national committees developing tests, teacher certification guidelines, and professional development opportunities for teachers, I can say from repeated experience, that if you want to get a group of teachers to roll their eyes and snort disdainfully, mention colleges of education. In my younger days, when I was training to be a teacher, I thought much of the curriculum was worthless. When I saw what my students experiences, that view was reinforced, and when S was going through the program (he gave up in disgust), I was thoroughly disgusted.

In my view, the best training for a teacher is as many hours as they can get in their discipline, some basic adolescent psychology, a testing and measurements course (if it’s good), and a good mentor. If you’re going to go into a situation like frazzled’s D, a gym membership and marathon training might be advisable.

EPTR · May 12, 2011, 7:37am

Really?!! Could you go back and read the original post? I was looking for a healthy discussion. As a parent and a teacher I see both sides and am interested in exploring an effective way for parents to give feedback on their children’s educational experience.

Perhaps the title of the thread was a bit provocative, but…well you opened it, didn’t you?! lol.

poetgrl · May 12, 2011, 1:00pm

My question is how can parents and teachers work together to better the system that exists? However, as long as teachers point to parental involvement (either too much or too little) as the main problem with education today, it sounds more like a dodge than “problem solving” to me. JMO

performersmom · May 12, 2011, 1:14pm

I also see it as a dodge to point out how horrible conditions are in the classroom.
Involved parents also care about this, are on the same team about this.
And conditions do vary.

Do any teachers or parents have any positive experiences to share about how difficult situations were resolved?

Do teachers have any stories about how they improved as teachers, corrected some mistakes they have made?

Do parents have any examples of how contact with a teacher resulted in a better understanding of their child from BOTH ends? How a teacher helped them see their child differently in such a way that the child benefited in the future?

There is such defensiveness and polarization.
I mean, when you see that PS teachers avoid PS to send their own children to private schools, I really do not know what to think.

The kids need everything they can get, in balance. I do not want to see the teacher as the enemy, and I do not want to the teacher to see me, the parent as the enemy.
That is not good for these children. No one benefits from that.

Hunt · May 12, 2011, 1:19pm

In my experience, one thing that can help is if there is some kind of troubleshooter in the school who is not a teacher, and not the principal. For example, my kids are in a magnet program within the school, and the administrator of that program can help if there are issues with a teacher, even a teacher who is not part of the magnet curriculum. I think this is because she is somewhat of a neutral party. Perhaps if schools had an ombudsman or something, it might help.

overseas · May 12, 2011, 1:45pm

Frazzled, bless your daughter! I am a third generation of women teachers. My grandma ran a one room schoolhouse. My mother jumped between 3rd and 6th grades and after her obit was posted in the local paper, she died 30 years after retirement age 98, former students posted online remembering her. She always said that first grade teachers carried the burden. May the powers that be figure out a way to reduce those class sizes. Shame on us all!

Bay · May 12, 2011, 1:47pm

^^That is the role of the GC at our school. When there is an issue, the GC suggests setting up a meeting between the teacher and parent in hopes of resolving the issue. I have never pursued this, but other mothers have told me this is what happens.

In my situation with my S’s Geometry teacher who did not give me the courtesy of responding to my emails or helping my S, I had no desire to meet with him, I just wanted my S out of the class, which is generally not permitted at our school. I had to get pretty upset in order to make that happen and it has really left a bitter taste in my mouth about who the school really cares about serving - obviously, it should be the student but it doesn’t always feel that way.

dheldreth · May 12, 2011, 3:34pm

Poetgirl: My question is how can parents and teachers work together to better the system that exists?

I think the answer to this is for all of us to try to see each other as people with diffidult jobs, who both want the student to succeed. And to work together, we can’t just say that parents blaming teachers is the problem, or that teachers blaming parents is the problem - we have to concede that both have contributed to the stereotypes we are seeing perpetuated on this thread.

Performersmom:
Do any teachers or parents have any positive experiences to share about how difficult situations were resolved?

I think parent involvement is important and desired. I have personally only had a few unpleasant conferences with parents in my career. Almost all have a positive outcome. I believe face to face commnication is the key. I think it is telling that some who have posted about bad situations with their kids never talked to the teacher. They just said it wouldn’t do any good or there would be retaliation. Maybe there are some people out there like this, but frankly, I’m the grown-up in the room, and I would never retaliate against a kid because his parent was upset with me. My students are graded on their personal academic performance alone. At least in my experience, when parents and teachers actually get in the same room and talk, we see each other as people, not the enemy.

Bay · May 12, 2011, 3:46pm

dheldreth,
If you are referring to me not wanting to meet with the teacher, I was not at all concerned about retaliation. In my mind, there is not much a teacher can do academically in retaliation to a kid who already has a D+. The teacher already ignored my S and upon request gave him no assistance in understanding the material, other than to tell him to come to class everyday and do the homework, which S already did. Too bad the teacher never corrected anyone’s homework, he just randomly checked that there was something written on the paper. When other parents, my other 2 kids, and the private tutor all informed me that this teacher had a reputation of being a terrible teacher, I didn’t see much point in pursuing the relationship. Do you?

dheldreth · May 12, 2011, 3:56pm

Bay, I think it was someone else posting about retaliation, but no, in your situation, it is best for your child to be with another teacher. It is inexcusable for the teacher not to try to meet with you or to help your child. And one of my pet peeves is grading for completion, not accuracy. That penalizes the student who does good work. There certainly are bad teachers, but I have a suspicion they are not great people in general. Both my children went through public schools, and the vast majority of their teachers were great. I never requested their teachers, I let them work with who they got.

Bay · May 12, 2011, 4:04pm

I agree that the majority of my kids’ teachers were good. (But not the vast majority and a would reserve the word “great” for a few). Our school does not allow anyone to request a teacher, nor switch to another teacher when the chemistry isn’t working. This is the only time I had to pursue that avenue, because frankly I was panicked about the prospect of S failing Geometry and what that means with regard to eligibility for science classes (can’t take Chemistry without completing Geo) and readiness for SATs.

poetgrl · May 12, 2011, 6:28pm

My solution, when it became clear that the public school wasn’t the right fit for my kids, was to find them the right privates. Of course, I have endless resources for this, and never have to think a thing about it. Whatever the cost for our kids educations, we really do not care. We will pay it.

However, I will say that there are those who are not in this situation and they are in a system, and it is a “system”, which seems to have become rotten with blame on all sides. It’s unfortunate. Even in the “best” school districts, where our teachers are paid 60,000-150,000 per year, not to mention intense parental volunteerism and involvement, fundraising, whatnot, parents have begun to get fatigued by the lack of respect for parental opinion on some matters.

This was the cause of a recent failed referendum, which has never happened here. I don’t think you could find a place with better teacher/parent communication or whatnot, but I have also heard teachers complaining about parental “requests” or whatnot in the local starbucks. I’m sure there were parents whose kids go there who overheard.

The lack of respect on both sides is alarming, and the losers are the kids. But, finally, with the way the system has been set up, the teachers hold all of the power. If they choose to interact with the parents, that’s a choice. The parents have no power, no say, except with the board, a hotly contested race this time, for the first time I can recall. Just the heat around the lost referendum, and the fact that the opposition to the referendum won all the seats on the board tells me that the climate has taken a turn for the worse.

Suddenly the school is issuing calls for parental input on all sorts of things. I suppose that’s a good sign. It’s just unfortunate the way it had to happen in order for the local parents to finally be asked to contribute. Given the number of professionals in the area, one would think they would have utilized these available talents for years now, instead of only asking us for more money.

tom1944 · May 12, 2011, 7:27pm

I know a teacher that held a meeting with a parent to let the parent know that her child was exhibiting bizarre behavior and she should take him to see a professional. The behavior was reported to the administration also. The parent was offended demanded the student be removed from that teachers class and began a campaign to discredit the teacher.
The student has now been charged with sexual assault of a special ed student.
This is in a solidly middle class community.
It sure is not easy being a teacher.

sopranomom92 · May 12, 2011, 8:00pm

I have been a teacher for over 25 years. I haven’t read each and every post carefully, so I may have missed it: I don’t see anyone focusing on the role of the principal, the instructional leader of the school. A good one will be able to make a big positive impact on the educational environment–the contacts between parents and teachers, evaluation of teachers, participation of parents… He or she can do nothing at all about the poverty level of the students and the family situations. The principal can encourage parents to value education, but h/she has no control whatsoever over parents’ attitudes towards education or parenting skills. But s/he can insist that teachers answer parent calls/emails, return corrected work to students in a timely manner, keep classroom control, follow curriculum guidelines… Any good principal can see in a two- minute observation which teachers are effective and which are not. And a great principal knows how to work the system to get rid of incompetent teachers. I’ve seen it. Thankfully, I currently work for a great one.

The teacher works for the principal.

camathmom · May 12, 2011, 8:25pm

Since "taker parent’ was a concept that I introduced on this thread, I take this as a question directed to me. So, I will answer. In brief, yes you are a taker parent.

A taker parent is a parent that complains when the ideal situation has not unfolded for THEIR CHILD, such as losing the luck of the draw in having the less desirable but still competent Calculus teacher. Life happens. Sometimes you get the good teacher, sometimes you get the OK teacher.

From my perspective, many parents (although thankfully not all parents!) today feel entitled to the best possible situation for THEIR CHILD always, and don’t really care about others in the community or how it may impact them. This is an example. Why should your child be entitled to the better teacher? Isn’t there always a “better” teacher?

As a parent, there have been times that I have been aware that my child did not have the better teacher, and I think that she would have learned more in the other teacher’s class. But, I can also think of one time recently when I was told by other parents that my child’s teacher was not the better one, but who then turned out to be one of my child’s best teachers EVER. So who knows?

As my dearly departed Mom used to say, “the cream always rises to the top”. If your child is truly talented, s/he will wind up at a wonderful college and have a successful life. Better to spend your time teaching them a lesson in sharing the goods of life and caring about their community rather than arguing over a Calculus teacher.

dheldreth · May 12, 2011, 9:00pm

Even in the “best” school districts, where our teachers are paid 60,000-150,000 per year

<ul>
<li>Boy, do I live in the wrong place! Our superintendent only makes $150,000 a year!</li>
</ul>

poetgrl · May 12, 2011, 9:05pm

I Like post #96 a lot. I agree with it, too. I do tend to think most of these problems are administrative and that it has been easy for the administrative branches to allow parents and teachers to be pitted against each other.

dheldreth-- As parents we fought for years to get our teachers higher and higher pay. But, the parents here are exactly the kind of demanding pain in the butt parents some teachers really find tedious to deal with, from what I have come to understand. It’s a double-edged sword.

Of course, it is also why it is challenging to talk about “education” on a national chatboard. Frequently we are probably talking about entirely different situations without realizing it. :)

EPTR · May 12, 2011, 9:19pm

^^^^
I was thinking the same thing. Where, oh, where do teachers make that kind of money?

I do agree that this issue would benefit greatly from acknowledgement on both sides that the other side has some very legitimate points. As a parent and a teacher I will acknowledge that there are some terrible teachers out there. Both kinds of terrible (mean, use humiliation in the classroom and just plain horrible at communicating information). I will also acknowledge that it is very difficult to get rid of these teachers once they reach professional status.

As a teacher, I have seen quite a trend on the part of many parents to smooth their child’s path to adulthood in such an extreme way that they do more harm than good and unintentionally sabotage their child’s developing coping skills. This societal trend has added a new level of stress to the teaching profession.

The reason I started this thread is because I think that there maybe constructive ways for parents to give feedback about their child’s educational. Does anyone have any examples of ways that feedback is sought from kids or parents? I know one post mentions a survey. Any other examples?

Do Teachers work for the Parents?

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