@eyemgh Of course, you’re seeking my expert opinion on LACs!
OP, my kid attended Bates with no intention of doing premed. She took Honors Physics in hs. That was rigorous enough, combined with the many APs she took. She is glad she took physics, because she later took a physics elective in college (for a concentration) that proved to be a great class, and for which she would have been totally unprepared without any physics at all.
Your daughter really should take physics because others will have taken it most likely. Not to drift into a side topic, but honestly, AP classes, while rigorous for high school, are not the same as college level classes. She wants to be as competitive as possible. She can still have plenty of rigor while ensuring she has the three core sciences that most selective colleges will expect to see. Especially if she is an unhooked applicant.
So many kids change their minds about doing a premed sequence of courses. Physics is pretty challenging. I think colleges will wonder why she didn’t take it.
Edit: If med school ends up being in the cards, it’s her grades, recs, experience, and MCAT scores that will matter. With that goal in mind, she should ensure she applies to a college where she will be able to get the highest grades. That may not be Harvard. She definitely should apply to some colleges where she might be a bigger fish who is able to stand out and take advantage of more opportunities.
OP, there is amazing advice here about physics. They are absolutely correct. If she can’t fit it into her schedule, consider a dusk enrollment class at a college in the evenings/ summer etc. I know kids who could not fit classes into their schedule or their school did not offer the class, or allow them to take etc. The kids found a way and took the classes because the colleges expect them to do this. Admissions officers have said this in interviews.
As a premed, she should be wary of taking classes at a local college as those classes will be included in her overall college gpa when applying to med school. There are many posts on this site about people doing this, not doing well in the class and then having the grade follow them onto their med school applications. Better to take a class where she might not be strong in a regular high school setting.
It’s similar where we are - kids usually double up honors bio/chem in the same year so that they can take one (or more) AP sciences. They require the regular course prior to the AP so if you don’t double up it can be hard to get to any science APs without having to cut something else out. And to address the OP - yes, have her take physics. Many selective colleges expect students to have taken the 3 core sciences: physics, chemistry and biology. Even S22 - who was as far from a STEM kid as you can get - took honors physics on the strong recommendation of his GC (and he wasn’t even shooting for super selective schools).
Are you asking me? She doesn’t “need” them, in that they are not required. But why does one take more than one biology class in college? Why does one take more than one English course in high school? Why does one take Algebra I and Algebra II? Because they don’t cover the same material; they enhance your learning of the subject.
I believe the OP said it was because the student really enjoys those subjects, but not physics.
Of course, that should not keep the student from taking physics if she is a STEM kid hoping for a selective college. But I won’t repeat what has been said multiple times in the thread.
Thanks. I am hearing the advice from many folks that physics may be “needed” by colleges she wants to attend (which I’m still not totally sold on) and that taking physics in high school would strongly benefit my daughter (of which you all have convinced me). I will be sharing all of this feedback with her.
FWIW, my D had to make trade offs in HS too. Typically high reach/elite colleges are expecting to see 4 years in all core subject areas - English, math, science, history, and foreign language (regardless of what is necessary for HS graduation).
My D knew by 10th grade that she was going to apply for engineering. We toured schools relatively early so she had her list made by the summer between 10th/11th. Her favorites on her list were more tech/engineering focused so had laxer requirements for foreign language. She got through honors Spanish III/DC college Spanish as a sophomore but then had a major scheduling conflict between Spanish IV and the math class she needed. She made the decision to double up on math and science for her junior and senior year and load up on tech electives and she dropped orchestra.
It was a calculated move based on her interest but the college counselor told her that if she changed her mind, she was probably taking herself out of contention for other schools. There was enough of a concern about the decision that they called me in to discuss the situation so we knew she was straying from the prescribed path.
This is because many of us have worked with students applying to college.
The most telling actual data that we have is the Wesleyan data…that’s a highly rejective LAC divulging that 80% of their admitted students had B,C,P. And this is from a school that isn’t STEM focused.
The 20% who didn’t have BCP were likely hooked applicants like recruited athletes or disadvantaged students, those whose high schools don’t offer physics, or students not targeting stem majors.
I would not discount that data and I also believe the proportion of admitted HS students who took physics at plenty of other rejective LACs would be similar, and quite possibly higher at the relatively more Stem-y LACs.
I’m not sure why the OP is so resistant to the overwhelming amount of advice on this thread that the student should take physics. It really seems like a no-brainer to me. I would have been so thankful for a good high school physics class. I’m out of this thread now, because I don’t know what else is left to say.
Blockquote This is because many of us have worked with students applying to college.
(Sorry, still trying to figure out how to quote here.) Let me preface this by saying that you all have convinced me that my daughter should take physics because it is an important foundational course and will set her up for success in college physics.
Re whether she “needs” to take it, I guess I don’t make the same assumptions about that Wesleyan data as you do. Physics is a basic, “foundational” (as many have said) class offered at many more high schools than AP sciences are. And as you all note, the vast majority of students take bio, chem, and physics. My elder child who is not interested in majoring in science and is going to a LAC as a recruited athlete will have taken bio, chem, and physics (and AP Environmental). I think it’s just as likely that the 20 percent who haven’t taken physics did not take it because they opted to take other AP science courses.
I don’t think this is true. I believe they haven’t taken it because their HS didn’t offer it. The districts in my region have repeatedly (since the late 1980’s when I moved here) have stated that qualified physics teachers are the hardest HS professionals to hire and retain. Many districts have offered accelerated certification, alternative hiring (during the 2008/2009 recession the notion was that all the unemployed engineers out there would be thrilled to work as a HS physics teacher), and non-traditional work arrangements (so no bus or lunch duty), none of which have proven to be successful long term. And I don’t live in a rural region with underfunded schools.
I think students who don’t take physics and are aiming for highly rejective schools CAN’T take it. Not offered. One of the HS’s near me (pretty well regarded) had a physics teacher who literally showed up with a “Physics for Dummies” book on the first day. She was one chapter ahead of the kids for most of the year. That didn’t work. It is hard to take a skilled HS language arts teacher or French teacher and turn them into a competent physics teacher over the summer!
