Completely agree. Both of my kids took regular/honors physics because it’s a grad requirement and because they too were shooting for selective LACs. They both loved it! One was asked to tutor other students in the class, a real ego boost, and the other decided on AP Physics for his AP science the following year (only room for one AP science at our school). she might indeed enjoy it.
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I don’t think so and agree with blossom re: difficulty in getting HS physics teachers. IMO if physics is offered and one is targeting highly rejective schools, the student should take physics (and bio and chem) before taking AP sciences because physics is foundational as we all seem to agree.
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College Physics courses are “weed-out” for many pre-med and engineer students. Taking physics in HS will definitely helps them at least to prepare , or even get credits if hey take the exam and get a 4 or a 5.
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That was my D’s AP chem teacher. The kids spent most of the year correcting her mistakes. It was horrible. She was asked to leave at the end of the year.
D lucked out with physics - the AP teacher retired in her junior year but he talked a friend of his into teaching C. The friend was a retired college physics professor and was OUTSTANDING! Tough class though - they started with 10 students and were down to 6 by the drop period. (She was lucky the school didn’t cancel the class and continued on.)
Definitely a problem to find well qualified HS AP science teachers!
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She should do what she wants to do and let the chips fall where they fall. Her admission to medical school, should she choose that route will hinge on her GPA and MCAT far more than the name on her diploma.
I’d also caution against having a “dream school.” All schools have flaws, often not uncovered until the student is enrolled. All schools have positives. At the end of the day, it’s about the students drive, curiosity and horsepower.
And what she took in high school won’t be considered one bit by medical school admissions.
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This is what my kid did. H Bio, H Chem, H Physics, and APES. I do think the most selective colleges prefer four years of science overall, with BCP being expected.
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D22 ( wry clearly English/History) wanted to take AP Stats instead of AP science after taking Honors for the 3. CC strongly discouraged - said AP Psych at a minimum, similar to @Lindagaf
For what it is worth, I don’t tend to like absolutes as to highly selective college admissions since we know they don’t tend to think in absolutes themselves, and indeed like to assemble classes that are diverse in a variety of ways.
So I agree with you “need to” is probably not exactly the right way to express the concepts being discussed here.
On the other hand, I also tend to think it is a good idea to have some honest self-assessment, and to be deliberate about actually trying to be the sort of student and person these colleges are looking for, as opposed to trying to just sort of fake it in applications. Not that faking it never works, but I think it is generally a very good idea to actually be confident you really are who they want. And in fact, if you don’t want to be that person, then that college is probably not right for you, and you should likely be looking elsewhere.
So in this case, it appears the honest self-assessment would include that this kid is avoiding Physics. That is not necessarily the only motive, they may legitimately also positively enjoy Bio and Chem. But avoiding Physics is potentially problematic, because for someone with STEM or pre-med intentions, actually looking forward to taking at least some Physics would be the preferable attitude.
So I think you are sort of looking at the two diverging paths in the woods situation, and in fact hearing from different people who might favor different paths. On one path, she resolves to actually learn to like the idea of taking Physics, to see it as an opportunity to improve her understanding of the world, and lay a better foundation for future advanced studies in Chemistry and Bio. On the other path, she rejects that way of thinking and does it her own way, just exploring what interests her already.
These paths both have their merits, and part of what is daunting about all this is that ultimately they can lead to different colleges, different majors, different careers, different lives!
So despite being personally on Team Take Physics, I did want to acknowledge that is in fact not the only reasonable answer. But I do think it is a decision with potential consequences, and at a minimum I think a really honest discussion about that is warranted.
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It is more likely that the students graduated from small rural high schools that did not offer physics.
If your daughter really doesn’t want to take physics and it is not a high school or state requirement, she does not have to take physics. But, she needs to be aware that by choosing not to take physics she is choosing not to apply any college that requires applicants to have completed a physics course.
Have your daughter select a few colleges and look at those colleges’ recommended and required high school courses. Be sure she not only looks at the general admission requirements but also major-specific requirements. That way she won’t be making her decisions in a vacuum.
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Glad to see that the OP will advise her daughter to take physics.
We were not always successful in convincing our kids to do things that were “optional”, though we had that talk with them.
What comes to mind is the “optional” winter workouts for their spring sport. We tried to explain that those workouts were not truly optional. If you don’t attend the “optional” workouts, will you be on varsity or JV? Starter or bench warmer? I think this is sort of the same case here.
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Good advice, but it’s necessary to understand that not required, does not mean not preferred. (see Wesleyan’s example)
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Yes, we can either make our kids do things, or explain the consequences of their choices and hope they make the right one. I’m inclined not to make my daughter’s decision for her here, but I will definitely advise the following:
- Many knowledgeable parents on this forum think that not taking physics will put her at a disadvantage in college admissions. And she should talk to her guidance counselor and the college counseling office at her school to get their views on this. (I’m still not convinced on this point in her specific case, but we can all agree to disagree.)
- If she is planning to study science or go pre-med in college, she will have to take physics in college, and that is often a very difficult class and most of her classmates will have had exposure to physics. And her grade in that class would matter for getting into medical school if that’s what she’s going for.
- Taking physics will certainly not make her transcript look worse, i.e., colleges won’t look negatively at her having taken physics rather than AP Bio or AP Chem.
- She may find she likes physics.
- I’m not sure how this works vis-a-vis her school transcript (and she certainly wouldn’t need it to graduate), but she could take physics in the summer at a local prep school if she wants to do that.
I want to clarify my position on this. This parent has said they are targeting very very selective colleges. For those colleges, I would say taking physics matters.
BUT I’ll repeat my comment from above. If this student is aiming for medical school, they do not need to attend an elite school. There are plenty of students at less selective schools, who become doctors, who never took physics or calculus in high school, but did very well in college…and forward.
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I’ll chime in and say this is also my exact position.
Taking physics will improve chances at highly rejective colleges, and offer a glimpse of what is to come. Neither are paramount to getting into medical school.
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This thread is starting to remind me of my old days in Weight Watchers meetings.
Someone would stand up to say that Doritos were her “trigger food”, couldn’t eat one or a handful, could only eat the entire bag. We’d all be sympathetic, try to suggest other non-triggering substitutes (air popped popcorn? celery with some salty feta cheese?). And we’d spend 10 minutes trying to help someone who was working to lose weight and who just could not resist Doritos.
And a week later she’d stand up and ask “Do I have to stop buying Dorito’s?” and we’d all smack our heads.
No, you don’t need to stop buying Doritos. But if you can only eat an entire bag, and you are committed to losing weight, and your “trigger” food is Doritos- then yes, stop buying them.
OP- of course your D does not need to take physics. BUT-- given everything else you’ve posted— maybe taking physics is the right answer, and if another 50 posts won’t convince her of that- then she should go ahead and not take physics.
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IMO that is, unfortunately, not the same. I am not convinced colleges view these work around in a positive light. Plus, can you honestly learn a year of physics in a summer class? I’ll defer the the GC on this strategy.
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This would be purely for the purpose of giving her some exposure to physics before college; I understand it probably wouldn’t make a difference for college admissions, and I understand that taking a six- or eight-week summer class probably isn’t as comprehensive as a year-long class. (Though as I understand it, many folks take summer math or science classes to accelerate, and our school offers several such classes, though not in physics.)
I don’t really know what to say to that. My daughter has not been reading this thread, but I will provide her with all the information and she will have to make a decision. I appreciate hearing the insight of others, but if folks feel like we should close the thread, that’s fine too.