OP - you posted a little earlier that you do not necessarily agree that skipping physics would put her at a disadvantage “in her specific case.”
Can you please explain? I am not sure what “in her specific case” means.
I agree that physics is necessary at the very competitive schools, but might not matter at others. She does not need a very competitive college in order to attend medical school.
I would think Bio, Chem and Physics are equally important for any students who are on pre-med track. My D, who is currently a junior in college as a premed, took all 3 subjects during HS and just completed her med school’s pre-reqs, finds physics is tougher than bio or chem. She is currently studying for MCAT and told me after taking several practice exams that she hopes that the exam has more chemistry questions instead of physics.
I specifically left out math, since I think if your daughter can take Cal BC and get good score, she will only need to take 1 college statistic class to satisfy math’s requirement.
I’m attaching the link to “Explore Careers>> Medicine” from UMD, where my daughter attends. You can expand section “What Are the Common Prerequisites” to see of list of classes requires for med schools and to prepare them for MCAT. Hope that helps !!!
I acknowledge that this is not a widely held view on this thread, so at the risk of restarting a firestorm …
At the schools she is looking at, physics is not required. At some it may be recommended. (A previous poster has mentioned Wesleyan, which she likely won’t apply to, but there may be others.) If she does not take physics, she would be applying to these schools with (1) a series of advanced math courses ending in either AP Stats/Calc BC or Multivariable/Linear Equations; (2) four years of social science including APUSH and AP World; (3) four years of english including AP Lang and AP Lit; (4) five years of Latin through AP; and (5) advanced bio, advanced chem, AP Chem, AP Bio, a selective three-year science research seminar, and possibly a science elective like anatomy/physiology.
My personal opinion, which again, I understand is not widely held here, is that in the context of that transcript, the absence of physics is not going to be the difference between admission and denial. This is not a case where a college could look at her transcript and think, she’s avoiding physics because she thinks it might be too hard. She is taking the hardest available courses in literally every subject. I think a college would look at her transcript and say, here’s a kid who challenges herself and is very interested in biology and chemistry.
I’m not saying she will get into Harvard or Williams or Bowdoin, even if she keeps getting As through the rest of high school. The odds are that she won’t! But if she doesn’t get in, I don’t think it will be because she took AP Biology instead of physics.
That is really helpful information, and I will definitely pass on to my daughter that several people have said that the physics classes that pre-meds have to take is very difficult, and if she doesn’t take high school physics, she will be competing in that class against a lot of kids who have more exposure to the subject. That is a very valid argument to me.
I have no doubt that she will go to college- she absolutely will. I just question whether she will be accepted to the very competitive schools that she appears to want to attend.
Maybe she will, maybe she won’t. Many applicants will be equally as impressive as your daughter, and they will have taken physics.
She will decide what is best for her.
In my opinion, Physics in summer school is fine. It’ll give her the exposure she’ll need and it’ll prove colleges she’s not trying to avoid it. Sure it may not be as in-depth as year-long physics but she’ll get the gist of concepts so that she’s not facing the subject for the 1st time in college.
(She could also roll the dice, as long as she’s identified 2 affordable safeties she likes well enough, in case the dice aren’t kind).
To OP’s original question: Do they have to take physics?
Now that I think about this, I’ll put it this way.
To ask this is like asking someone “what should I eat for lunch?”
You will get so many different opinions for various reason, you will start to doubt why you asked the question in the first place.
Truth is, we don’t know you or your daughter. She may do fine taking physics in college for the first time, as if she would be taking it in HS for the first time. You know (I hope) what she is capable of and need to trust that to be true.
My own kid is applying to MIT and Caltech and and there is no way his HS physics class is sufficient. Am I worried? No. Because I know him well enough that if he does get in (which would be a miracle anyway), he will be able to survive whatever classes he has to take. This 'm confident because I know what he knows and what he can do. I also know with my kids, I won’t be able to make them do anything they don’t want to. Forcing something may end up having adverse outcome which is not worth it.
I don’t disagree with anything you said here. I agree that she may not be accepted at these schools, and that there will be many other equally impressive, or more impressive, applicants who have taken physics. I just don’t think that will be the deciding factor. But again, I know others disagree and I will convey that view to her.
Curious what your intent was in starting this thread… you seem to be looking for support for the decision not to take physics. In which case- as many posters have stated- don’t take physics. The world isn’t running out of physics while your D is in HS.
Could there be consequences? Perhaps. You don’t seem comfortable with that and it’s ok too. Lots of us had kids who did what they did and no amount of parental “have you thought about this” moved them off the dime.
The great thing about competitive college admissions (and then competitive medical school admissions) is that it’s never “one thing”. It’s either a bunch of things, or nothing at all, or a few things. And that’s why we all encourage our kids to have Plan B and C (and the compulsive among us- Plan D and E.)
I started the thread because I genuinely wanted others’ viewpoints on the question, and I would like to share that information with my daughter as she makes the decision. And I have gotten a lot of useful information and viewpoints.
I get the impression from your question that you think I haven’t been receptive to people’s responses, and I hope I haven’t conveyed that. Just because I don’t agree with everything that has been said (and I actually do agree with a lot of what has been said, and ultimately I am persuaded that she should take physics) doesn’t mean that I haven’t appreciated all of the responses.
Is your daughter open to the idea that she might like physics?
So as I previously noted, it is very common at our feederish HS for STEM kids to do one of the introductory sequence classes in the summer, so they can do two years of advanced electives. Normally that is actually within our HS’s own summer program, but I think sometimes not.
I can’t speak for all colleges, but I tend to think the introductory level science classes seem perfect for this–you do an intense dive for the same amount of total hours but without any other academic distractions, and at least at that level there is a pretty standard curriculum you need to cover.
I am sure some kids would find that overwhelming, but the STEM kids seem to do quite well with it, presumably because they find it interesting enough and are fine with the pace.
Could someone please explain…why does this kid need to take additional biology and Chem courses. She could take ONE of those and still have time in the academic year to take physics.
Agree. No need for AP biology and AP chemistry.
She doesn’t. Unless she loves the subject matter and wants to, over taking physics.
And that seems to be the case.
She can opt not to take physics, but she needs to understand that this might limit some of her college application options. If that’s ok with her…skip physics. If she wants these elite schools…take physics.
Why not use the science elective for physics instead of a third biology course?
At the highest-rejectives, the vast majority of kids have bio chem physics AND 1-2 AP sciences….by doubling up years. “Doubling” if it is allowed by the HS and if it is done by the top group in that HS will be expected for the highest-rejectives. Your HS counselor should know the data on that from the HS, as far as putting forth the most rigorous courseload in the context of a premed aiming high. I do think that if she doesnt want to take physics and an AP then thats fine—should be her choice of course even if it lowers chances who cares? There are plenty of colleges that will be just fine with the main 3 sciences and no AP.
Could it be she loves the subject and knows she will do well? Just a guess.
Personally I love physics and physical sciences but plenty of people don’t share my passion.
There is no problem skipping physics as long as she understands and accepts the possible consequences.
I am just wondering how she knows that she is more interested in biology and chemistry than in physics…as a HS sophomore.