specifically Columbia and Vanderbilt. I know coaches may want to see scores - but are they required. And of course we will ask the coaches, but kid is junior and just received interest from both coaches. Profile is 98.8 weighted, top 10% large public high school, strong rigor will have 10+ APs by the end. But scores don’t really correlate, 1250 SAT can probably prep that up to a 1300 (2 older siblings same relatively weak scores, went TO to top schools - and thriving in college - so not worried about younger one being in over head at one of these schools) Should we move beyond attempting to be TO recruit at TO schools like Vandy and Columbia?
Don’t think there is one answer.
May depend on sport (football, basketball not same as track and field)and whether athlete is top recruit for the sport. SEC recruiting not same as Ivy, imo.
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My understanding – but without experience at either of those 2 schools – is that it is common for the coach to ask for scores upfront. They will then advise on how to proceed so the application will pass muster with admissions - submit application TO, prep to get score to a certain level, etc. Also, you may want to throw in AP scores – with a high GPA, he should have mastered the material to a point where he will earn a 4 or 5. While not interchangeable with SAT, it’s external validation.
But of course, you’re right – the coach will give the best guidance.
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My impressIon is that Ivies are requiring it and using it to calculate AI as they used to and that factors into whether or not an offer is made.
Also, if you are asking this question now… expect fewer test optional schools by the time you apply.
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totally understand that other schools will be eliminating TO that’s why I specifically asked about 2 schools that messaged it will be in effect next year. But point about AI is a good one - my understanding is that the AI basically governs all schools in the ivy, keeping the athlete profiles a specific standard deviation or two from the mean - guess it’s impossible to police that if one or two schools aren’t using the same calculation - meaning if one is not TO for athletic recruits, then none are
Not sure any additional schools will be going TO for class of 2026…could happen of course, but it’s really late to make that change.
Regarding the Ivies and AI, I agree most coaches want test scores, but that doesn’t mean all recruits will be applying with their test score. Admissions will tell the coach if the kid passes the academic pre-read and if so, whether they should apply with or without a test.
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I don’t disagree with the sentiment but I have not seen an Ivy go through the “apply with the test” or “apply TO” directive the same way as NESCAC/UAA has. I think if the athlete gets the offer as long as they are not submitting something different from what was reviewed ahead of time, say a less rigorous curriculum, they will get in.
I agree they will get in if they are fully supported. But I don’t think everyone is submitting tests.
Dartmouth College did not.
Is that current? Dartmouth is test required.
Also, things seemed to change between fall 23 and spring 24 conversations.
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OP isn’t asking retrospectively. Dartmouth is no longer TO…
Yes, now they are, but Dartmouth was test optional a couple of years ago. Student was admitted to Dartmouth College without submitting any standardized test scores.
OP is asking about a practice. Dartmouth just eliminated TO.
The kid is struggling, but grading is easy so he has above a 3.0 GPA after 2 years.
but that seemed to change (not Dartmouth specifically) half way through our process, and coaches even at TO schools started asking for a score.
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thx all, so sounds like no one has any definitive guidance or experience with this - specifically with Columbia - is anyone aware of a situation where after pre read cosch said, you are going test optional
Follow to standards for Columbia
Columbia states tests not necessary for track, but coach wanted to see a “ high 1300” last year.
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From my experience with athletes, ivys are far more likley to ask for scores than not. For baseball, they are generally looking for a 1400 but have accepted high 1350+. For other sports, they may go a little bit lower than that according to sources.
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Yes for a 2022 HS grad (so could be different now, and we are likely taking a different sport.) Kid took a slot at a different Ivy and was admitted. Had around a 20 or 21 ACT.
Big picture, getting to a pre-read means the coach is pretty serious about the student. Coaches always ask for more pre-reads than they have slots of course, but the coach is typically pretty confident a student will pass the pre-read if they send it to admissions.
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I am not sure that I would put any weight in that doc. It has contradicting content like:
Minimum Academic Standards
Unweighted GPA 3.6/4.0 or 93/100
SAT 1400
ACT 33
Followed by:
Currently, neither SAT or ACT is not required.
And then:
You may re-test as often as you
like, Columbia will only consider your best score. You can
super score the SAT, but not the ACT.
Each application is looked at on an individual basis. We
may be able to work with you if your scores are within an
appropriate range of the given standards.
And it refers to tests which no longer exist and haven’t existed for awhile:
SAT Subject Tests are not required.
It looks like an old doc poorly updated. Frankly they should be embarrassed by it.
I have no direct experience with Columbia but last year Brown had some T&F recruits with mid/upper 1300 scores retest to try and keep the class intact. This led to delayed LLs.
I know of a Yale recruit (top recruit) who was dropped when they couldn’t get their SAT score over 1400.
I would plan on Columbia requiring testing.
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I agree with everything else you’ve said except for this part. Columbia has committed to a permanent test optional policy. Or do you mean required as part of recruit pre-read?
I was only referring to athletic recruiting where the Academic Index comes into play. I expect that recruited athletes will be required to submit tests.
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