<p>Pride should be held internally, it need not be shared. It is self gratifying, and very individualistic.</p>
<p>Yeah, I think so.</p>
<p>Ok, I understand what you mean now. The separation of accomplishments vs. building on past accomplishments argument is trivial and off topic (I started it so my bad). However, you failed to incorporate the idea of pride within your statement. While the past must be recognized, pride is a useless obsession with the past that can be detrimental while pursuing future goals.</p>
<p>On the topic of happiness, I think Aristotle did a nice job explaining it here, “It must be the ultimate end or object of human life: something that is in itself completely satisfying.” If complete satisfaction can be obtained by admiring your past work or drinking yourself to death then those are ways happiness can be obtained. I personally disagree. I believe that complete satisfaction comes from achieving rather than having achieved. For example should a mountain climber have the most satisfaction from the act of climbing a mountain or telling his friends about it afterwards? If the second answer is true he shouldn’t be a mountain climber.</p>
<p>But why can’t the mountain climber be proud of both climbing the mountain and proud of being at the top? You left out the fact that he could be proud for himself for reaching the top. Telling others has nothing to do with it.</p>
<p>Imagine a man lived in the middle of the woods and had no human contact. He decides to build a house. Can’t he be proud of the finished house? And why would he be more proud of an unfinished house (“achieving”) than the finished house?</p>
<p>Another quote:</p>
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<p>My example wasn’t the greatest but you are missing the point. Do things because you enjoy doing them. Don’t take pride in unfinished house or the finished house. If you have to build a house then build it for the happiness it will bring you in the woods rather than the pride of accomplishment. Pride is useless and artificial. And the same concept goes for negative things that happen in the past. Don’t dwell on the bad or the good. Not dwelling on the bad is considered common knowledge but it is difficult to do. By not dwelling on anything in the past one can focus on present and future happiness.</p>
<p>Another good definition of happiness:</p>
<p>“activity of the soul in accordance with virtue” - Aristotle</p>
<p>How could looking back at the past with pride be in accordance with any virtue? Confidence should come from your knowledge that you can make logical judgments in evaluating how to live life virtuously not from pride. If pride isn’t the source of happiness or self-confidence, what is its purpose?</p>
<p>Again, what if someone is happy with sitting around watching TV for the rest of their life? Another person is the head of a multinational corporation that gives aid to impoverished nations. Both are equally happy from their activities.</p>
<p>Are you telling me that the TV guy is worth just as much / should be as “proud” as the Aid guy?</p>
<p>Also; Who defines virtue? There is no such thing as universal morality, and it’s futile to prove there is. Morality is largely based upon culture, as any examination of past (and present) cultures will show they differ throughout the ages.</p>
<p>You’re taking too much of a black-and-white view to reality and happiness. No one just does something because they enjoy it and for no other reason. Being proud of yourself and your accomplishments is a part of being happy. </p>
<p>Otherwise your life is a series of disconnected events that have no relevance other than to the present. Having no pride means you have no self-respect.</p>
<p>My volleyball coach always said, “It’s not bragging if you can back it up.” LOL. I guess you could switch bragging with prideful, and the same holds true…</p>
<p>Hmm… I can’t seem to the point across that I don’t think people should be proud of themselves. The TV guy shouldn’t be proud. The philantropist shouldn’t be proud. If both are truly happy and completely satisfied, good for them, that is the object of life.</p>
<p>Although virtue cannot be universally defined, the individual should strive to discover virtue for themselves and live by it. People with good character are people who live by good virtues. What is good is what leads to happiness. There are culture influences but ultimately “good” is based on individual perspective.</p>
<p>What makes you believe pride and self-respect are the same? Self-respect comes from internal confidence and believing your life has value. Pride is the admiration of past accomplishments. The two concepts are entirely unrelated. </p>
<p>And finally, are you claiming that pride is essential for you to see the relevance of your past? Or that you can’t relate past experiences to each other without pride? That makes no sense.</p>
<p>pandem, you make it look like the only motivator in one’s life is pride (or wanting to be better, wanting to be the best?) I gave you an example on the previous page, but you did not respond to it in any manner, and continued arguing that there is no other reason to do things. As I have said, people set goals, and people perform the actions needed to accomplish those goals. If you think that everyone’s goals are related to satisfying their basic instincts (I will have the hotteset girlfriend, I will have the best car, I will have the most lucrative job, etc.), then well, you are wrong – I know a lot (literally) people who do ‘things’ because they have set a goal, and want to accomplish it. Also, if you think that communists/socialists are against pride, then you should read about USSR history, Stakhanovite ideology (people worked more than it was needed, overproduced, and were proud of it), the pride that USSR athletes had when they got gold medals on Olympics, and so on. Heck, I know some members of local Communist ‘party,’ who are proud of their individual accomplishments. Yea, maybe in the end they are doing it for the sake of Communism or whatever, but they still experience the feeling, and sometimes can’t contain it (that’s when it comes to arrogance). Your statements are very generalizing and not exact.</p>
<p>But in the end, what do you mean by pride? You know, I have done quite well in high school, did pretty good on all those SATs, performed a lot of work dedicated to improve the living conditions in this region, helped talented students find places to study, etc. Why am I supposed to be proud? Maybe I am proud, I just don’t realize it. I have done all these things having specific goals in mind (pride was not the very reason itself), and I feel satisfaction because now I, and the society as a whole is somewhat closer to my aim. Is the satisfaction - pride? Or would pride be “OMG I AM SO COOL, I JUST SAVED 10 KIDS FROM STARVATION”?</p>
<p>Alone, i’m with you on this one.</p>
<p>Well this has pretty much devolved into an argument about semantics. </p>
<p>There are obviously different meanings to the word pride, and I think we’re all sort of on the same page. Pride is largely satisfaction, yes.</p>
<p>I set out to climb a mountain, enjoyed climbing the mountain, and then was satisfied / proud of my reaching the top; that’s certainly pride. And I don’t see anything wrong with that.</p>
<p>My reference to communists was meant to imply this: they are intent on destroying the individual. Destroying one’s sense of pride, accomplishments, and self-respect is obviously a large step in that direction.</p>
<p>I’m done arguing with you guys about the meaning of the word pride; anyone who respects themselves and what they’re accomplished is proud. What the specific definition of that is depends on the context.</p>
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10 char</p>
<p>"Pride goes before a fall’ - Albeit cliche I feel that this statement is true. I personally try to keep my pride at bay, though sometimes when I get the highest grade in class on a test (which happens fairly often) my head bloats up a little bit. I think we should all limit our pride thought it seems we live in a society values pride over self confidence. It explains our love for people like kanye west (love him), who are insecure and use pride as a facade. Same goes for most celebrities (Hiltons, Olsens, blase blah) Seems like big ego=popularity.</p>
<p>When you think about it, pride is the one deadly sin that leads to one committing the other 6 deadly sins. Due to pride, we feel we are above moral law and therefore can commit other sins.</p>
<p>Also, a la Oedipus Rex, “Pride breeds the tyrant.”</p>
<p>Without pride, would one deem himself worthy to stand up against that tyrant?</p>
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<p>Could you elaborate please, so that I am sure I understood the question correctly?</p>
<p>How can a man stand up against an evil (say a tyrant) if he does not consider himself worthy of doing so? if he does not have some sense of self-worth?</p>
<p>Defining pride can get messy (this thread), but, like the quote I posted says, pride must be earned, so not everyone has the right to be proud. Only those who have earned it do. Accomplishments, or production, is what makes a man worthy of pride, and what gives him his self-worth and value.</p>
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<p>Well, yes, but people can be ‘proud’ of different things. One can be as proud of sitting 48 straight in a chair as someone can be proud of solving a global economic crisis. It depends on the person’s own valuation of the things important to him – what you might consider an achievement can be nothing for someone else, and vice-versa. </p>
<p>As for standing up against tyrant, you seem to equate feeling of being worthy of standing up against tyrant with the feeling of self-worth which can be related to virtually anything. I don’t think that being ‘proud’/feeling self-worthe because of achieving level 59 in Warcraft/sitting in a chair 48 hours straight/blowing 17 bubbles in a row/etc. will somehow influence my capability of ‘standing up against tyrant’. I, for example, would counter the ‘tyrant’ because I see that my basic human rights are being oppressed, and that if I don’t start some kind of revolt or other type of opposition, I, and other people, can DIE. And I don’t really want to die (I can list you reasons for that, but that’s going to be pretty long, and no, they are not related to satisfying the ‘I am better’ instinct). I would start a movement against the tyrant regardless of how ‘proud’ of my video-game playing, basketball, social skills, etc. I am.</p>
<p>Pride is good in the sense that it’s good to have self-confidence and feel good about yourself. Feeling pround of doing something makes you happy.</p>
<p>But, on the other hand, pride is bad when someone is too stubborn to accept help.</p>
<p>Pride can come from a multitude of different sources. but those sources are similar in that they serve a common purpose. They are accomplishments which further one’s survival. And the result of pride is the same - an increased sense of self-worth.</p>
<p>In other words, I don’t think any of those activities you listed give rise to pride in an individual.</p>