do you believe there is a GOD?

[ikillers]

<p>

@gotakun

He acknowledged that it was, in fact, a problem. It is a problem that would not exist without religion, therefore, it is one of many detriments of religion on society.

</p>

<p>

@amarkov

What problems wouldn’t exist without religion? Atheists also hurt people for stupid reasons, rationalize away problems instead of trying to fix them, and substitute blind adherence to authorities of their preferred group for actual rational thought. Sure, religion doesn’t stop these things, but neither does it cause them…

</p>

<p>Exactly. Religion is not a cure-all for human nature. Christianity is simply truth, truth that’s oftentimes very, very hard to face.</p>

[MojaveMocha]

<p>Answer for the OP
-Yes</p>

[Ray192]

<p>

Actually:
“Leaving behind four million words on theology, Newton was one of the greatest lay theologians of his age.” loooool He devoted a great deal of his life to writing about God.
(Isaac Newton Theology, Prophecy, Science and Religion) Obviously he did not think it was pointless.

</p>

<p>… totally missed my point. You do realize that being a lay theologian means that he was essentially an amateur. Would you applaud it if he essentially wasted his entire life by solely on religion and nothing else? </p>

<p>The fact that he did spend a great deal of time writing about religion just reveals the sadness of it all. If he devoted more energy into science and mathematics, he could have done much more.</p>

[NonAntiAnarchist]

<p>Why can I not find an uncensored mp3 of The Message? Gawd…</p>

[gotakun]

<p>

@amarkov

What problems wouldn’t exist without religion? Atheists also hurt people for stupid reasons, rationalize away problems instead of trying to fix them, and substitute blind adherence to authorities of their preferred group for actual rational thought. Sure, religion doesn’t stop these things, but neither does it cause them…

Actually, I’m going to have to say you’re just wrong. I’ve explained that religion DOES cause these things. What your statements actually suggest is that, though atheism doesn’t cause these things, neither does it necessarily stop them. But I wasn’t trying to pretend like it did. All that matters is that religion does cause them.

@ikillers

Exactly. Religion is not a cure-all for human nature. Christianity is simply truth, truth that’s oftentimes very, very hard to face.

It’s hard to face because you have to give up a part of yourself to believe it. You have to ignore all logic and reason to resolve the cognitive dissonance created when presented with such an impossible version of reality. You have to sacrifice your own ability to think logically. How sad…</p>

[xMastemah]

<p>Yes, I suppose the universe simply appearing out of nowhere is such a possible version of reality. Oh wait…</p>

<p>Unfortunately, for some, for a LONG time coming, there IS freedom of religion, to protect the practicing faithful from people like gotakun. He will die and wither away before the superiority complex he and many others carry with them has a profound impact on the religious sector as a whole.</p>

<p>Cheers.</p>

[applicannot]

<p>So… wait. Thinking that you believe in the only God and you will be saved whereas others will go to hell is NOT a superiority complex?</p>

<p>If Christianity is the truth, why wasn’t the Greek Pantheon the truth? What made them different than you?</p>

[xMastemah]

<p>I’m not even Christian, but I’m not so cold and calculating as to group every follower of Christianity into a one big, stereotyped group. No Christian I know has tried to tell me what I can and can’t believe, and none have tried to tell me I’m going to hell for how I believe. If the texts haven’t evolved (which I don’t think anyone was even trying to say they have), the mindset has. </p>

<p>There’s soft-spoken and extreme Christians, much the same as there is with Atheists. The same with every religion, I imagine. </p>

<p>How many have you even met a follower that thinks every non-Christian is going to their hell? Because I live in a still very conservative region and have yet to meet more than one. I consider that type of belief to be very traditional and of a pretty extreme wing that is unarguably small.</p>

[applicannot]

<p>

No Christian I know has tried to tell me what I can and can’t believe, and none have tried to tell me I’m going to hell for how I believe.

</p>

<p>That’s the thing though. It doesn’t matter if they tell me that. According to their doctrine, if I am a non-believer, I will go to hell. So they don’t have to preach to me; it’s unspoken. So as long as they are Christian, that is a part of their belief system. If you can’t be saved if you don’t accept Jesus - which I believe is not an extreme belief in Christianity - then a non-believer cannot be saved.</p>

[ikillers]

<p>

@Ray192

… totally missed my point. You do realize that being a lay theologian means that he was essentially an amateur. Would you applaud it if he essentially wasted his entire life by solely on religion and nothing else?

</p>

<p>Well lay theologian only means that he was part of the laity, not a priest or pastor or part of the church hierarchy. I wouldn’t really call him amateur. I watched a video on his life a bit ago and despite his scientific accomplishments he considered theology his passion. Would I applaud it? Well I might never have heard of him, but I would not consider focusing solely on religion wasting his life. Newton would probably say that his faith informed his science.</p>

<p>

@gotakun

It’s hard to face because you have to give up a part of yourself to believe it.

</p>

<p>You’re right in a sense. To live as a true Christian you have to give up your more primal urges and aspire to something better. You have to forgive when you don’t want to. You have to help the poor though you would rather keep that money for yourself. You have to turn the other cheek when you have to fight back. You have to give up your angry, spiteful and jealous nature to be a Christian, to become closer to God. You have to love unconditionally.</p>

<p>

@gotakun

You have to ignore all logic and reason to resolve the cognitive dissonance created when presented with such an impossible version of reality. You have to sacrifice your own ability to think logically. How sad.

</p>

<p>Well that I just don’t agree with. Whatever you believe, I do not think that a belief in God constitutes an “impossible version of reality”. Regardless, believing in God certainly does not mean sacrificing your ability to think logically. I mean, look at Newton. He invented calculus lol.</p>

[ikillers]

<p>

@applicannot

If Christianity is the truth, why wasn’t the Greek Pantheon the truth? What made them different than you?

</p>

<p>Christ, for one thing.</p>

[ikillers]

<p>

@applicannot

According to their doctrine, if I am a non-believer, I will go to hell. So they don’t have to preach to me; it’s unspoken. So as long as they are Christian, that is a part of their belief system. If you can’t be saved if you don’t accept Jesus - which I believe is not an extreme belief in Christianity - then a non-believer cannot be saved.

</p>

<p>I think that is a legitimate concern. I would just say that the Catholic Church believes that you can find Christ through living a good life, through good works. A boy in India is not condemned to hell because he was not born into a Catholic family in the US. And there is an inherent mystery there (regarding who will go to heaven) that cannot be cut and dry explained by any Christian. I think it’s one of the things that theologians puzzle over.</p>

[gotakun]

<p>

@xMastemah

Yes, I suppose the universe simply appearing out of nowhere is such a possible version of reality. Oh wait…

Lolwut? Oh, you mean the Christian version of the beginning of the universe. I gotcha. Anyway, remember, this isn’t the Christian version vs the Big Bang theory. Atheism is not necessarily a proponent of any theory, just an opponent of any religion. It’s hard to take you seriously when you make assumptions like that. There technically aren’t “extreme” atheists, because there is no doctrine implied by the term. I am not an extreme atheist; I am an extreme atheist activist.

How many have you even met a follower that thinks every non-Christian is going to their hell?

If they don’t, they obviously don’t believe in their own religion. Why anyone thinks it’s logical to pick and choose which parts of their religion to believe and follow and which to discard is beyond me.

@ikillers

To live as a true Christian you have to give up your more primal urges and aspire to something better. You have to forgive when you don’t want to. You have to help the poor though you would rather keep that money for yourself. You have to turn the other cheek when you have to fight back. You have to give up your angry, spiteful and jealous nature to be a Christian, to become closer to God. You have to love unconditionally.

Huh… That’s funny. I did all of those things, and I am not a Christian. You could argue about my angry, spiteful, jealous nature, but I have no feelings for anyone here personally, other than love :). If that’s surprising, then you obviously have no idea how much patience it takes to “debate” with you guys.

Well that I just don’t agree with. Whatever you believe, I do not think that a belief in God constitutes an “impossible version of reality”. Regardless, believing in God certainly does not mean sacrificing your ability to think logically. I mean, look at Newton. He invented calculus lol.

I’m sure even famous scientists could possibly have been better-focused and could have accomplished more, were they not under the influence of religion. How the specific sacrifice of logic that it takes to allow oneself to believe in an impossible reality would affect someone is (at least for now) unpredictable. Just as there are important historical figures who have prescribed to religion and still made significant accomplishments, there are also severely mentally “ill” (according to today’s standards) individuals who have done the same. In fact, Newton himself suffered from what is today considered poor mental health. People can achieve despite enormous setbacks, the least of which is the delusional belief in a religion.</p>

[xMastemah]

<p>

Lolwut? Oh, you mean the Christian version of the beginning of the universe. I gotcha. Anyway, remember, this isn’t the Christian version vs the Big Bang theory. Atheism is not necessarily a proponent of any theory, just an opponent of any religion. It’s hard to take you seriously when you make assumptions like that. There technically aren’t “extreme” atheists, because there is no doctrine implied by the term. I am not an extreme atheist; I am an extreme atheist activist.

</p>

<p>Semantics B.S. It honestly doesn’t even matter. There IS NO “possible version of reality” as it remains, so why push one out when you have no evidence to the contrary…? You’re no better than the Christian missionaries by telling people they’re illogical for believing in/thinking something when it’s fair to say what you think hardly provides anymore “realistic” answer to the questions people might have. Continuing from the previous example, “How did the universe begin?”</p>

<p>The fact of the matter is, there is a lot of things you and everyone else (and generations of people gone) will never know, and will go to the grave not knowing, and religion is perhaps a more comforting version of reality than the (not-so) blissful ignorance that you call “logical”. </p>

<p>

If they don’t, they obviously don’t believe in their own religion. Why anyone thinks it’s logical to pick and choose which parts of their religion to believe and follow and which to discard is beyond me.

</p>

<p>What makes it illogical?</p>

<p>EDIT: Not too sure why you think you need a doctrine in order to just be deemed “extreme.” Perhaps it makes things clearer in the context of the argument, but grammatically it doesn’t make a difference. – Then again, who cares?</p>

[crazyday]

<p>If you subscribe to a religion, you are conforming to a set of already chosen beliefs. Deciding not to follow particular components of that means you are subscribing to a different religion or cult, hence why there are numerous different denominations within the church.</p>

[crazyday]

<p>

How did the universe begin?

</p>

<p>Perhaps there was no beginning. We cannot know at this point, but if we remain patient, we may someday know. Just as once the world was thought flat, now we know different. Who knows what might be discovered in the decades to come? Believing in an all-powerful creator is making an illogical assumption because of a lack of patience and is a mistake that has been made all throughout our history.</p>

[xMastemah]

<p>

Perhaps there was no beginning. We cannot know at this point, but if we remain patient, we may someday know. Just as once the world was thought flat, now we know different. Who knows what might be discovered in the decades to come? Believing in an all-powerful creator is making an illogical assumption because of a lack of patience and is a mistake that has been made all throughout our history.

</p>

<p>Please see: </p>

<p>

The fact of the matter is, there is a lot of things you and everyone else (and generations of people gone) will never know, and will go to the grave not knowing, and religion is perhaps a more comforting version of reality than the (not-so) blissful ignorance that you call “logical”.

</p>

[crazyday]

<p>Just because something is comforting does not make it truthful, and the point of having a RATIONAL discussion in this thread is to seek truth. Saying that something is comforting contributes nothing to this discussion because that is not relevant to the truth value of that something.</p>

[xMastemah]

<p>

Just because something is comforting does not make it truthful, and the point of having a RATIONAL discussion in this thread is to seek truth. Saying that something is comforting contributes nothing to this discussion because that is not relevant to the truth value of that something.

</p>

<p>I must’ve missed where this was ever a requirement to post in this thread. Enlighten me? I’m not arguing for truth, I’m arguing for the sake of the religious to believe and practice whatever they want, because it’s no one elses’ right to decide that for them, as some are clearly trying to do.</p>

<p>The hope that some think this is possible in a society dominated by religion, or they fact that they even want to try and invade someone’s personal beliefs, is over than that which you are putting down.</p>

[Experiment8]

<p>

How many have you even met a follower that thinks every non-Christian is going to their hell? Because I live in a still very conservative region and have yet to meet more than one. I consider that type of belief to be very traditional and of a pretty extreme wing that is unarguably small.

</p>

<p>I could care less that a religious person may or may not think I’m going to hell; what I care about is when those beliefs translate into gay people not getting equal rights, stem cell research not getting the attention it deserves. You really think it was just “a pretty extreme wing that is unarguably small” that got prop 8 passed?</p>