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<p>I think it’s closer to: God commands it because GOD is right.</p>
<p>I’m going to be a loser and answer the original question:</p>
<p>Deist: kind of believe in God</p>
<p>Don’t read bottom if you don’t like rants that most likely have flaws b/c they were on the spur of the moment…
(religion has nothing to do with murderers…the thing that makes them murderers can be outside of them being religious or atheistic…If we’re going the opposite way where “what helps peole become immoral” then religion does help morals, but can be detrimental if the “Word” of “God” (in quotations b/c supreme powers can be called other things than God) is interpreted in ways that promote violence- ex. Old testement can be taught to promote intolerance of other religions and women, but new is pretty good…so I think becoming a criminal/murderer depends more on the interpretation of things - real world and “The Word” - not the actual religion…religion; therefore is good for the morals if the teachings are interpreted correctly for all - most of the lessons are universal though. Problem: can’t force people to interpret things the way you want them to or else that’s intolerance)</p>
<p>I think I made no sense at all :(…I’m not good w/ rants (and, therefore, never make a controversial one on a place where I’m most likely going to get bashed for logical inconsistencies or anything else, but for some strange reason decided to for this) :(</p>
<p>Zeus is the true God.</p>
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IMO, it’s probably more to give the impression that they have changed to increase their chances of being released. The “I found Jesus and turned my life around” story sounds a lot better than “I promise I’ll never do it again.” I said it was a meaningless statistic, didn’t I? 
Come to think of it, that is another example of a false sense of security. Authorities give convicts another chance because they appear to have turned their lives around with religion. Without religion, they can’t pretend to be religious and score themselves an early release when they truly are not ready. The atheist world already sounds like a safer place :).</p>
<p>gotakun, I think that you’ve had a lot of encounter with a lot of people who say they are religious but in fact are not. I’m going to say it but during my middle school and half of my high school years, I had a problem with looking at certain stuff on the internet that I shouldn’t be. But after giving my life to Jesus, I just don’t have the desire to do that anymore. Now I’m pretty sure that that’s not a easy thing for a lot of people to do is it, to just walk away from that and never come back? And I’m pretty sure that I wasn’t doing that for my own gain either.</p>
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<p>Books on theology
a) very rarely fundamentally change the way the religion is practiced
b) are generally not considered divinely inspired (which seems to be a prerequisite)
c) are not the basis for the practices for each religion</p>
<p>The Bible has changed much - with the exception of translations - since 1000 C.E., and nothing “divinely inspired” has changed the Bible since closer to 100 C.E. Similar timelines follow for other Abrahamic religions. On another note, why hasn’t God spoken to his people since approx. 20 C.E.?</p>
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<p>Actually, it’s very easy. You did that in late middle and early high school - when, biologically, you had come of age. Your hormones were stronger, so you sought more obvious stimulation. Plus, that’s the rebellious stage, so breaking those rules was even more appealing.</p>
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<p>I see what you’re saying, but I think that’s a very cynical way of looking at things that is not the truth most of the time. If that were the reason, why do we see conversions from people who are in prison for life, or are on death row? (Dead Man Walking is a good example of this.)</p>
<p>@ikillers
You know what they say… There are no atheists in foxholes, right? 
The mind will do interesting things in desperate situations.</p>
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I assume you are talking about standard, heterosexual, adult pornography? Yes, it takes a lot to overcome natural sexual urges. However, morality pretty much kills sexual desire on its own. Once you were convinced the behavior was immoral, the amount of will it would take to avoid porn was significantly reduced. Even then, hormones can be tough to beat, especially when the moral is not grounded in anything tangible. I’m confused about where this Jesus character comes in? Also, worrying about your own afterlife is in your best interest, so it is still technically for your gain. You are sacrificing now for rewards later. Too bad the rewards will never come…</p>
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<p>That’s irrelevant. I don’t have to believe in God to have a source of morality, so your point is moot. I’ve proven that I, and most other normal people, can be moral without believing in God. </p>
<p>To reiterate, morality does not stem from belief in God.</p>
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<p>I would ask, what makes God right, but I already know the response, so I’m not even going to bother pursuing this thread of argument.</p>
<p>“gotakun, I think that you’ve had a lot of encounter with a lot of people who say they are religious but in fact are not”</p>
<p>I was trying to make that point too. Obviously the people he considers religious really arent and that has caused him too turn atheist. Just a hunch but I bet if he didn’t have such crummy examples his ideals would be different. I mean all of his reasonings are based on bad examples of religious people.</p>
<p>-“The point I was making is that people in power have to be responsible, and being influenced by delusions or hallucinations is irresponsible. It’s downright scary, but no one ever thinks about it.”
So your saying that church, and its supposed craziness, must NOT influence state? If so then I agree.<br>
-“Look how many people chose a presidential candidate just because they were under the impression he was on their religious side. Ask them about any other specific issue and they have no idea how he stood. They just blindly followed the religious side.”
I agree that that should NOT happen. Power changes people and we need to account for that.
-the afterlife point. I didn’t agree. Didn’t mean too anyway. I’ll try to better illustrate my stance. You said focusing of an afterlife was, for lack of better terms, bad. I tried saying that if you believed in an afterlife like we did then you would agree that focusing on preparation for it is important. Sooooo, we are going to have to agree to disagree because you don’t believe in god and thus no after life.
-unnecessay guilt. U said that we put too much guilt on ourselves for actions that we think are bad and thus may impede our afterlife, right? So my point was saying that the afterlife IS a big deal to us. So yes, unnecessary guilt happens sometimes. However, repentence should help us remove this guilt.
-“When one of my aunts was in an abusive situation, instead of actually doing anything, my grandmother asked her other children to PRAY WITH HER. It’s not about fixing your own problems, it’s about taking an active role and doing good for the world, for others.”
TOTALLY agree. I don’t want to be mean but your aunt is not a very good “religious person”. She shood have known that the situation needed action and she should have helped and cared for your aunt. Kinda like the whole good samaritan story. I can’t believe that didn’t pop in her mind. “Making your brother’s/sister’s burdens lighter” is a common topic preached about in ALL religions.
-false security. You tried saying that we “blindly follow” our leaders right? Well like I said, power changes people and we need to account for that regardless of who they are. </p>
<p>As for a list, give me some time to make one. I’ll need to mull over it a bit and get the wording straight and such. And as for being productive, how is debating you about your ideas not productive when we ARE indeed debating?</p>
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<p>I never said you had to believe in God to have a moral compass or a source of morality. I would agree that morality does not stem from a belief in God; it comes from God himself, if you believe in him or not.</p>
<p>@GoOakland
Your posts are so hard to read :(… Just thought you should know…
I don’t understand at all. You are exactly the product of religion that I’m talking about. Are you just another crummy example?
This is taking some patience :). No, I’m saying that because you believe in delusions and hallucinations, you possess an unpredictability that does not belong in power. It’s not about church having influence, it’s about religious people having influence.
So you agree that it currently is a detriment to society. Please, understand what you are agreeing to. I say you aren’t being productive, because you aren’t offering counter-points. You are agreeing with and trying to justify the detriments, but they are still detriments.
What you are agreeing to is that people ARE neglecting the here-and-now because they are focusing on the afterlife, which is the POINT I was making.
Thank you for agreeing, yet again, that my point is valid. You admit to the unnecessary guilt. That means it’s a detriment. Done. Justifying it does not change that.
Yeah, I preach the same thing. Religion is not necessary to preach good values. However, there would not be the problem of believing in prayer as a solution if religion did not exist. It’s a detriment, like I said.
If religion was out of the picture, half the country would have to at least pay attention to anything but which candidate is most sided with their religion. I only assume half the country voted this way, because I can think of no other reason why anyone in their RIGHT MIND would vote for McCain/Palin.</p>
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This isn’t a debate. This is you agreeing with me and not realizing it. That said, I’m looking forward to the list :).</p>
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<p>No, he agrees that individuals who misuse religion or do not live truly live their faith are not truly religious and that that is a problem. He doesn’t believe religion as a whole is a detriment to society (right GoOakland 
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<p>He’s agreeing that most of the points you bring up are legitimate; people in the faith community are sinners and undoubtedly to many bad things. These are issues that needed to be dealt with, and I think progress is being made on many of them. </p>
<p>You’re mistaking his acknowledgement of problems with individual religious people for a condemnation of religion as a whole.</p>
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He acknowledged that it was, in fact, a problem. It is a problem that would not exist without religion, therefore, it is one of many detriments of religion on society.
I know… It’s not fair, right? They’re not practicing the way YOU do, so they shouldn’t be allowed to declare themselves of your religion. That’s what happens when your text is vague. This is called collateral damage. It’s unavoidable. These are the detriments of religion, as a whole. It’s time people stopped catering to religious nuts by giving them every possible break imaginable.</p>
<p>What problems wouldn’t exist without religion? Atheists also hurt people for stupid reasons, rationalize away problems instead of trying to fix them, and substitute blind adherence to authorities of their preferred group for actual rational thought. Sure, religion doesn’t stop these things, but neither does it cause them…</p>
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<p>Think of all the great minds in history that wasted their lives on pointless theology. Now think what they could have done instead. What if Newton devoted his life to commentaries on bibles? Tsk tsk tsk.</p>
<p>Of course i believe in a God (Allah)!!! who else gave u all these blessings??! and can take it away at a whim??!</p>
<p>arent u athesits afraid of going to hell??! …of what’s gonna happen to u when u die!!!</p>
<p>i think in islam atheists NEVER come out of hell…scary</p>
<p>not 2 sound like im preaching but…it’s a proven fact that normally even atheists/agnostics/watever convert to Islam for some reason. It’s just very logical and makes sense. everything about it…hahaha</p>
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<p>God doesn’t have any children. How can u ppl associate anything w/ him??! c’mon…</p>
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<p>Actually:
“Leaving behind four million words on theology, Newton was one of the greatest lay theologians of his age.” loooool He devoted a great deal of his life to writing about God.
([Isaac</a> Newton Theology, Prophecy, Science and Religion](<a href=“http://www.isaac-newton.org/]Isaac”>http://www.isaac-newton.org/)) Obviously he did not think it was pointless.</p>